MM failed miserably this preseason

[BrokenArrow]

The majority of the league does, including MM and it was always a thing with Holmgren too, was to script the beginning of the game and see how a defense plays certain plays and formations. Then they adjust off how they see them reacting. Considering the offense usually does pretty well over the course of a game and a season, they may know what they're doing. It's frustrating to see stuff not work, but that's life. You put up with some ****, and grit and work thru things and it pays off later.

Exactly. You have to spend the first quarter or so gathering data on the defensive game plan by running a series of plays designed to get that data. Sometimes those plays work great. Other times they're ugly. But once you have the data you need, you can make appropriate adjustments rather than randomly trying this or that until you find something that works.

 

[gbgary]

And how do you know he didn't realize those things? I have absolutely no doubt MM knew there would be some rust to shake off for a few posessions. I have no doubt MM knew Rodgers would see a lot of pressure against their front 7. But you go out and you run your and then adjust to what they are doing, not the other way around.

because offensively everything was completely different. if he'd have realized rust and pressure were going to be a problem he'd have come out in the no-huddle pistol from play one.

 

[JK64]

MM is average at best.

 

[PackAttack12]

MM is average at best.

I think a good way to describe it would be to say that he isn't a tier 1 head coach. Tier 2 perhaps.

 

[BrokenArrow]

because offensively everything was completely different. if he'd have realized rust and pressure were going to be a problem he'd have come out in the no-huddle pistol from play one.

Okay, what you're suggesting is that McCarthy is not smart enough to realize that the Bears were going to bring a lot of pressure and that Rodgers would have a bit of rust to shake loose. Nearly every Packer fan worth his salt and every poster on this forum knew that. So you actually believe that a successful NFL coach knows less than the average fan? That contention is fundamentally ludicrous.

It was already explained to you how and why NFL coaches use a scripted set of plays early in the game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think a good way to describe it would be to say that he isn't a tier 1 head coach. Tier 2 perhaps.

Belichick is the only head coach in tier 1. In my opinion McCarthy deserves to be mentioned in the next one.

 

[PackAttack12]

Belichick is the only head coach in tier 1. In my opinion McCarthy deserves to be mentioned in the next one.

That's fair. He's definitely in a league of his own.

 

[Dantés]

Belichick is the only head coach in tier 1. In my opinion McCarthy deserves to be mentioned in the next one.

That's an interesting thought. I agree that Belichick is in a league all his own. Who are the coaches in contention after that?

I would throw out Nagy, Patricia, Shurmer, McDermott, Gase, Bowles, Vrabel, *****, Koetter, Lynn, Gruden, Joseph, Wilkes, McVay, and Shanahan due to lack of data. I know Gruden has a coaching history, but it's too old to be relevant to me. McVay and Shanahan are the new hotness, and I do like both (especially Shanahan), but we've seen quick success in this league that eventually turns to dramatic failure (e.g. Chip Kelly), so I will reserve judgment.

That leaves McCarthy, Zimmer, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Lewis, Jackson, Pedersen, Gruden (Jay), Garrett, O'Brien, Marrone, Payton, Quinn, Rivera, Carroll, and Reid.

Jackson is clearly a bad coach, in my opinion. Clearly there are more bad coaches out there as well, but most of them haven't had the chance to prove otherwise, so I'm waiting.

Lewis, Garrett, and Marrone are middling.

The guys in the conversation after Belichick for the #2 spot to me are Reid, Carroll, and Harbaugh.

After them, I see a tier of McCarthy, Zimmer, Tomlin, Pedersen, Quinn, Rivera, and Payton.

I struggle with Gruden and O'Brien. Both have impressed me in ways, but the results haven't been there for various reasons. I don't know quite where to put them.

So basically, I think McCarthy is somewhere between #5 and #10 depending on how highly one regards the other guys around him.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would like to see us start no huddle and play faster out of the gate. Other than that I liked how he used Montgomery Sunday by feeding him on short routes that gave him space to work with. Monty is a dangerous receiver in the short game and a mismatch against most LBs we need to exploit that. Also I’d like to see us use the RBs in the short passing game more.

McCarthy is an above average coach with a generational QB. He’s certainly not an unprepared HC, I don’t think

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's an interesting thought. I agree that Belichick is in a league all his own. Who are the coaches in contention after that?

I would throw out Nagy, Patricia, Shurmer, McDermott, Gase, Bowles, Vrabel, *****, Koetter, Lynn, Gruden, Joseph, Wilkes, McVay, and Shanahan due to lack of data. I know Gruden has a coaching history, but it's too old to be relevant to me. McVay and Shanahan are the new hotness, and I do like both (especially Shanahan), but we've seen quick success in this league that eventually turns to dramatic failure (e.g. Chip Kelly), so I will reserve judgment.

That leaves McCarthy, Zimmer, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Lewis, Jackson, Pedersen, Gruden (Jay), Garrett, O'Brien, Marrone, Payton, Quinn, Rivera, Carroll, and Reid.

Jackson is clearly a bad coach, in my opinion. Clearly there are more bad coaches out there as well, but most of them haven't had the chance to prove otherwise, so I'm waiting.

Lewis, Garrett, and Marrone are middling.

The guys in the conversation after Belichick for the #2 spot to me are Reid, Carroll, and Harbaugh.

After them, I see a tier of McCarthy, Zimmer, Tomlin, Pedersen, Quinn, Rivera, and Payton.

I struggle with Gruden and O'Brien. Both have impressed me in ways, but the results haven't been there for various reasons. I don't know quite where to put them.

So basically, I think McCarthy is somewhere between #5 and #10 depending on how highly one regards the other guys around him.

I don't see any reason to put Carroll and especially Harbaugh (who has missed the playoffs three years in a row) and Reid (no Super Bowl win) in a tier above McCarthy.

I would like to see us start no huddle and play faster out of the gate. Other than that I liked how he used Montgomery Sunday by feeding him on short routes that gave him space to work with. Monty is a dangerous receiver in the short game and a mismatch against most LBs we need to exploit that. Also I’d like to see us use the RBs in the short passing game more.

McCarthy is an above average coach with a generational QB. He’s certainly not an unprepared HC, I don’t think

Montgomery was targeted a total of only three times vs. the Bears on Sunday. In my opinion a lot of Packers fans don't realize McCarthy deserves credit for developing Rodgers into a generational talent.

 

[Mondio]

I put Bill on a pedestal. I think MM is tier 1 with a few others. I don't think Reid has anything on MM. If Pete Carroll was a QB, i'd put him in with the Matt Staffords, overrated and seemingly good under perfect circumstances but otherwise he gets more attention than he deserves. I don't really have an opinion on Harbaugh, I think he's ok, but outside of that it's hard to say. I'm not going to be too critical of anyone that is stuck with Flacco as a QB. Never liked him much and knew the ravens were done as a contender as soon as they paid him all that money.

I'd say Tomlin, Zimmer are in there though Zimmer hasn't wont it all I think he's a good coach. I think Pedersen did a masterful job last season, great timing with how it all went down, but still masterful. I don't think they'd make the playoffs if they had to go this season with Foles as the starter though. The only thing he's missing is some longevity, so i'm taking an incomplete with him. But it's impressive so far. Other than Payton, who I don't think is as good either, none of the others are worthy of even comparing in my eyes.

 

[Dantés]

I don't see any reason to put Carroll and especially Harbaugh (who has missed the playoffs three years in a row) and Reid (no Super Bowl win) in a tier above McCarthy.



Montgomery was targeted a total of only three times vs. the Bears on Sunday. In my opinion a lot of Packers fans don't realize McCarthy deserves credit for developing Rodgers into a generational talent.

Well first off, I think this is pretty subjective so I don't really mind if people disagree. But if you want to know my thoughts:

Carroll's Seahawks won their SB in dominant fashion, made a second SB, and were only one play away from winning it.

Harbaugh's Ravens are perennially one of the toughest and most fundamentally sound teams in the league. He's won a Super Bowl. And Harbaugh has been working around the biggest disadvantage in the league over the last several seasons. Their FO paid Flacco a deal comparable to Rodgers' last extension, and he's been one of the worst quarterbacks over the past few years. So they've had to deal with a Rodgers' like cap constraint without any of the advantage that Rodgers brings a team.

And Reid I think is just an amazing teacher. The way he develops talent on the field, trains up coaches who go on to be successful elsewhere, and perennially proves to be maybe the most creative offensive mind in the game... it's just so impressive. However, his game management gaffes have kept him over the hump so I don't blame anyone for disagreeing.

 

[BrokenArrow]

That's fair. He's definitely in a league of his own.

No coach has lost more Super Bowls than Bilicheat. Just sayin'...

 

[AmishMafia]

No coach has lost more Super Bowls than Bilicheat. Just sayin'...

Bud Grant and Marv Levy say thanks for forgetting.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Bud Grant and Marv Levy say thanks for forgetting.

Oh I didn't forget. I'm looking ahead 4.5 months from now to when the Packers beat them.

 

[weeds]

Did I somehow pass through a time warp ending up in the tailend of the Sherman regime?

Most of you are too young to remember the end of the Holmgren era too. Well, suffice it to say that every argument made here is cut 'n' paste from then. Deja vu all over again.

The only time I whistled these oldies but goodies was the short lived Ray Rhodes ordeal. We need new, more original song and dance routines guys.

 

[XPack]

I'm not really convinced MM is a able play caller. Our plays sucked last season without AR12. In crunch situations he ceders playcalling to AR12. I've not seen an innovative play that surprised anyone watching.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not really convinced MM is a able play caller. Our plays sucked last season without AR12. In crunch situations he ceders playcalling to AR12. I've not seen an innovative play that surprised anyone watching.

McCarthy is one of the best play callers in the league, having coordinated the third ranked scoring offense over his tenure in Green Bay.

 

[weeds]

Man, I agree Cap. All I can say to those critical of MM is "be careful what you wish for". How many times do we see the Flavor of the Day or The Girl with the Curl offensive coordinator of a Super Bowl winning team or Super Bowl contending team move into a Head Coaching position, install their offense at the new gig and drop a great big cow plop?

The folks I know who fall into the dump McCarthy camp usually end up offering the "Flavor of the Day" as a replacement... those candidates usually leave me wanting.

 

[Poppa San]

Enough football. I want to hear more about this

Girl with the Curl

 

[weeds]

Enough football. I want to hear more about this

Surprised THAT'S what you latched on to. Oddly, that is what Ron Wolf referred to when asked about his hiring of Mike Holmgren back in the day. The OC that everybody wanted. Beyond that, you're not dragging me into your little gutter young man.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How many times do we see the Flavor of the Day or The Girl with the Curl....

Surprised THAT'S what you latched on to. Oddly, that is what Ron Wolf referred to when asked about his hiring of Mike Holmgren back in the day. The OC that everybody wanted. Beyond that, you're not dragging me into your little gutter young man.

Here I thought you had news that Clay Matthews was retiring and going into coaching!

 

[weeds]

Here I thought you had news that Clay Matthews was retiring and going into coaching!

Yep, he sure is a .... um... purty young man.

 

[Dieseljunkie12]

McCarthy is one of the best play callers in the league, having coordinated the third ranked scoring offense over his tenure in Green Bay.

Sooooo taking less than 45 seconds and settling for a fg with under 2 minutes left is best play calling. I'm not a flavor of the week guy but how many times has or will his play calling cost us a game before people realize he is not a good play called? Not for nothing he must understand his head is on the chopping block with gute at the helm so why not show him "i will do what it takes not to lose" instead he showed him a tie is good enough for him

 

[Firethorn1001]

Sooooo taking less than 45 seconds and settling for a fg with under 2 minutes left is best play calling.

I'm not a cheerleader for MM, but they came up with play calls today to account for a one legged man vs one of the top defenses in the league. He was aggressive and went for the kill shot twice. Adams holds onto it, we are all happy that MM was aggressive in the play calling.