Mike McCarthy Opinion Poll

What is your Opinion of MM


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TomBrownFan40

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Most know that I am/was a big fan of James Jones and I admit I have him over rated because of that. But the fact that he came in last year and led the Packers in receiving should have been very telling as to where our WR talent level was/is. Granted, almost every WR, but Jones, missed time last year with injuries, but even when they were healthy, their inability to step up and be "that guy" should have sent a signal to TT that all was not that well with our WR group and it might be an area to look long and hard at. Instead, he cuts James Jones, stays pat on Janis and Abby, assumes Jordy will come back at 100%, splashes a 5th round pick on speed by picking Davis and signs a vet TE with apparent talent, but question marks. So the Packers and AR start the season with some renewed confidence that they can get back to the force they once were on offense, especially with Jordy back and Cook at TE. Instead, Jordy is rusty and inconsistent and the other receivers, for the most part, are playing at their 2015 level of inconsistency and inability to make big plays. Frustrations build and AR continues his decline towards playing like an average QB who can't carry his team.

At this point, for 2016, I hold out hope that Jordy continues to improve and he seems to be, Adams continues to get better, which he also appears to be, Cobb keeps contributing at the level he has been and Cook stays healthy enough and plays like the big, fast TE with potential that we hoped for. All 4 of these guys, along with MM learning to play call around their abilities, are keys in helping AR regain his confidence in them and the offense. But I would hope that whoever is running the draft or shopping the FA Market in 2017, takes a long hard look at both TE and WR as very real needs for the Packers.
Pokerbrat,
Thank you for some cogent analysis.
Btw, for the record, I voted "unsure" in the poll. I'm not ready to pull the plug on the regime...yet. :)
Adding a stud to the WR corps can only help and several serious questions need to be answered about the offense going forward:
1) Can this offense ever get balanced?
Until a running game is committed to and effective, the receiving corps is going to be vulnerable. Even before the injury, Lacy looked like he was well on his way to eating his way out of the feature back role. Can he and Starks ever stay on the field long enough make play action work? If not, another north/south runner might be in order. In any case, I've been crying for a 3rd down, change of pace back for a long time. Enough of the WRs in the backfield.
2) Can the huge hole at TE be filled?
Enough said on the subject except I'd like to see a more traditional guy that can throw an occasional block in the red zone.
3) Can we pass on a stud Offensive Lineman?
The Pack's OLine is very talented but, dangerously thin. There is depth now in the middle but, I want a better alternative than Barclay outside.
4) I'll avoid the topic of #12 as that topic is always an invitation to chaos. Suffice to say, he's in his 30s now. Still plenty of years left and his future success is pretty much up to him.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Pokerbrat,
Thank you for some cogent analysis.
Btw, for the record, I voted "unsure" in the poll. I'm not ready to pull the plug on the regime...yet. :)
Adding a stud to the WR corps can only help and several serious questions need to be answered about the offense going forward:
1) Can this offense ever get balanced?
Until a running game is committed to and effective, the receiving corps is going to be vulnerable. Even before the injury, Lacy looked like he was well on his way to eating his way out of the feature back role. Can he and Starks ever stay on the field long enough make play action work? If not, another north/south runner might be in order. In any case, I've been crying for a 3rd down, change of pace back for a long time. Enough of the WRs in the backfield.
2) Can the huge hole at TE be filled?
Enough said on the subject except I'd like to see a more traditional guy that can throw an occasional block in the red zone.
3) Can we pass on a stud Offensive Lineman?
The Pack's OLine is very talented but, dangerously thin. There is depth now in the middle but, I want a better alternative than Barclay outside.
4) I'll avoid the topic of #12 as that topic is always an invitation to chaos. Suffice to say, he's in his 30s now. Still plenty of years left and his future success is pretty much up to him.

Good analysis on your part as well ;)

IMO, they all go hand and hand. #12 is getting older and may not be able to carry this team as much as he once was. So that is going to require having all the moving parts around him being better. The OL has to continue to pass block well, improve at run blocking and do all of that while maintaining depth. Right now, I am more worried about Depth on the OL than anything else about it.

Whoever is in charge come the offseason, really has to find AR a weapon at TE. The Patriots now have 2 (Gronk and Bennett). What Cook does the rest of the season, may help a bit. But this position is critical to the Packers and has been weak for too long. Sadly, I think the Redskins are going to once again show the Packers just how valuable quality TE play is today. If Cook finishes the year off well, I wouldn't be opposed to resigning him, but hope the Packers find a solid TE early in the draft or a FA as well.

Running Backs: Given the Packers seem to be a pass oriented team with AR, this position isn't extremely critical for the offense to have success, but the better it is, the more defenses have to respect it and not just play against the pass.

Wide Receivers: While on the surface this group looks decent, but their lack of speed, inconsistency at being able to get open and very few yards after the catch have to concern the Packers. While there is never a guarantee on finding the elite WR in the draft or via the FA market, I feel that with Jordy's age and post injury status, they need to start looking.
 
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PackerfaninCarolina

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I say this, grind out offenses are overrated in football. Tony Dungy ran a high-powered offense in Indianapolis that was unstoppable and he had no running game. To me, if I'm a head coach we're dropping back and running a speed tempo offense all the time because the Colts proved all those years you could do it.
 

Lakekab

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McCarthy for sure deserves some blame for the offense struggling since week 4 of last season. As I've mentioned before if the unit doesn't significantly improve over the course of this season it might be time to move on from him.
Pack offense is ranked 14th in the NFL, Lions 23rd and ViQueens dead *** last at 32. Putting up 30 a game should win it, but our defense couldn't stop a good college team.
 

pacmaniac

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MM admits that he never makes adjustments:

''There's no reinventing the wheel,'' McCarthy asserted. ''We've talked about this since the day I arrived here. We have a system of football - offense, defense and special teams - that accommodates any football player on our roster. If we've got to reinvent the wheel in Week 11 or Week 12, we haven't set our plan the right way for the season.''​
 

swhitset

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MM admits that he never makes adjustments:

''There's no reinventing the wheel,'' McCarthy asserted. ''We've talked about this since the day I arrived here. We have a system of football - offense, defense and special teams - that accommodates any football player on our roster. If we've got to reinvent the wheel in Week 11 or Week 12, we haven't set our plan the right way for the season.''​
well it appears that they didn't .
 

Packer96

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MM admits that he never makes adjustments:

''There's no reinventing the wheel,'' McCarthy asserted. ''We've talked about this since the day I arrived here. We have a system of football - offense, defense and special teams - that accommodates any football player on our roster. If we've got to reinvent the wheel in Week 11 or Week 12, we haven't set our plan the right way for the season.''​

This is why he won't be confused with Belichick.
 

yooperpackfan

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MM admits that he never makes adjustments:

''There's no reinventing the wheel,'' McCarthy asserted. ''We've talked about this since the day I arrived here. We have a system of football - offense, defense and special teams - that accommodates any football player on our roster. If we've got to reinvent the wheel in Week 11 or Week 12, we haven't set our plan the right way for the season.''​
WOW!
That's all I can say regarding this statement.
 

ls1bob

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MM admits that he never makes adjustments:

''There's no reinventing the wheel,'' McCarthy asserted. ''We've talked about this since the day I arrived here. We have a system of football - offense, defense and special teams - that accommodates any football player on our roster. If we've got to reinvent the wheel in Week 11 or Week 12, we haven't set our plan the right way for the season.''​
Great football coaches don't have to change their system:rolleyes:
 

Mondio

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It's pretty obvious the plan the coaching staff set for this season hasn't worked. McCarthy not trying to adjust it is mind-boggling.
what should they change? The offense does look different. Even when they aren't performing well, it's still different than it was in weeks 1 2 and 3. I'm not a scheme expert, but the defense has switched up playing zones, man, and I agree that the overall scheme doesn't change, but you make tweaks to it, which I think they have.

I"ll never argue that it's working well. But you see young guys making mistakes. I don't think it was ever in their plan to be this deep this often in their depth chart back there. It changes things. and the Packers just can't get out of their own damn way sometimes. Force a 3 and out and your veteran leader gives a 15 yard and automatic 1st down right back to them. It's always something.

I think our safeties are good, not outstanding, but just solid. and that's ok if they have solid people around them too. I'd like heavy hitting ballhawks, but it's hard to do when you're surrounded by number 4, 5, 6, 7 on the depth chart. Randall and Rollins didn't look great early on, but I can't help think some of that was putting them in positions that would challenge them and force them to grow quickly. Then both were hurt and one hasn't seen the field in a while after surgery. I think we can all admit they looked much better last year.

And people can blame Thompson, he gambled in a few places and a perfect storm has come back to expose it all. But I don't care if we had Peterson, Norman, and Revis on our team, if all 3 are out there is no team that has Sherman, Peters, and Butler as back ups.

I think people are misinterpreting this again. They make changes. it's one thing to argue that the changes aren't working. It's another to say they aren't changing anything and are just stubborn. Because that's just throwing an excuse out and hoping it sticks. In the past 4 weeks there have been more formations and personnel groupings on both sides of the ball than most people care to count. Problem is they don't see it. They just see, no first down or no TD, it's the same. Or they got burned in the middle of the field again, must be the same problem. But they don't see a safety giving help over the top and then a TE coming free in the middle giving up a big play. They just see the big play. They don't notice the next one where the safety jumps the middle route on the TE and the WR runs on by beating the corner badly for yet another big play.

Scheme it anyway you want, when you're that low on the depth chart they all need help and there isn't enough help to go around. There's only so much you can hide. Lose a DB or a safety, fine, you can roll things to a side, play zone in an area and man in others. Lots you can do to keep things going. When you've lost practically everybody? Somebody is not getting help, it's the way it is. At some point someone just has to make a play.

I"m not arguing our defense was good last game or even lately at all, but there was a huge difference when we lost a run stuffing LB'er last week. It was noticeable. Then last game, we lost another one and were down to playing safeties at DB positions. There is not defense in the league playing good defense when they're that far down the depth chart regularly.

I think the fact they seemingly are so ill prepared to play when someone goes down is a concern, but it's not like I expect them to be much better at this point either.
 
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And people can blame Thompson, he gambled in a few places and a perfect storm has come back to expose it all. But I don't care if we had Peterson, Norman, and Revis on our team, if all 3 are out there is no team that has Sherman, Peters, and Butler as back ups.

Scheme it anyway you want, when you're that low on the depth chart they all need help and there isn't enough help to go around. There's only so much you can hide. Lose a DB or a safety, fine, you can roll things to a side, play zone in an area and man in others. Lots you can do to keep things going. When you've lost practically everybody? Somebody is not getting help, it's the way it is. At some point someone just has to make a play.

There is not defense in the league playing good defense when they're that far down the depth chart regularly.

The Packers just played a team missing both of its starting safeties since week 3 yet the Redskins defense hasn't given up big play after big play or more than 38 points a game over the last four weeks.

I don't buy it anymore that missing two starting cornerbacks is a valid excuse to perform that terrible, especially after entering the season thinking this secondary is elite. Unfortunately the unit lacks overall talent which is completely on Thompson.
 

Mondio

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Not an excuse to perform that terrible, but it is the reason. I don't know the Redskins situation, but if we had our top 3 CB's, which is what we are missing. And sam Shields was on the field, Randall and Rollins were both healthy and playing and we had to substitute Burnett and Dix with maybe Hyde and Brice? I bet we're still doing ok too.

But let's just assume Thompson can't evaluate nfl talent, I'd like to see all the posts about our defensive backfield from July and August, when our roster was mostly set, and see what everyone was saying about them then. Could be an interesting contrast and lend some insight about our own ability to judge talent over the GM.

Regardless it's one position, and it fails to account for everything else going on. It fails to account for games that our offense and our HOF QB failed to show up. Even against the redskins, they were doing "ok" until they lost another DB and lost another starting linebacker.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Not an excuse to perform that terrible, but it is the reason. I don't know the Redskins situation, but if we had our top 3 CB's, which is what we are missing. And sam Shields was on the field, Randall and Rollins were both healthy and playing and we had to substitute Burnett and Dix with maybe Hyde and Brice? I bet we're still doing ok too.

But let's just assume Thompson can't evaluate nfl talent, I'd like to see all the posts about our defensive backfield from July and August, when our roster was mostly set, and see what everyone was saying about them then. Could be an interesting contrast and lend some insight about our own ability to judge talent over the GM.

Regardless it's one position, and it fails to account for everything else going on. It fails to account for games that our offense and our HOF QB failed to show up. Even against the redskins, they were doing "ok" until they lost another DB and lost another starting linebacker.

I think most of us were drinking the Kool-Aid about our secondary and its strengths as well as depth, or at least I was. Shields was a big loss, no doubt, almost 2015 Jordy like to the Defense IMO. But the failures of everyone behind him in the depth chart was totally unexpected. Randall somewhat gets a pass, due to his injuries, but even when healthy I think his play wasn't all that great. The play of Rollins, Gunter, Goodson and the safeties have been very disappointing.

Are their failures on TT, Capers or Joe Whitt/Darren Perry? I guess that is something the Packers will have to sort out.
 
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Not an excuse to perform that terrible, but it is the reason. I don't know the Redskins situation, but if we had our top 3 CB's, which is what we are missing. And sam Shields was on the field, Randall and Rollins were both healthy and playing and we had to substitute Burnett and Dix with maybe Hyde and Brice? I bet we're still doing ok too.

But let's just assume Thompson can't evaluate nfl talent, I'd like to see all the posts about our defensive backfield from July and August, when our roster was mostly set, and see what everyone was saying about them then. Could be an interesting contrast and lend some insight about our own ability to judge talent over the GM.

The Packers missed their top two cornerbacks vs. the Redskins as Rollins was playing. Entering the season I thought the secondary was close to being elite as well but injuries and players regressing have resulted in the unit struggling mightily. There were some posters around here questioning the depth though.
 

PFanCan

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Mondio

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The Packers missed their top two cornerbacks vs. the Redskins as Rollins was playing. Entering the season I thought the secondary was close to being elite as well but injuries and players regressing have resulted in the unit struggling mightily. There were some posters around here questioning the depth though.
they were questioning depth, and in another thread they're saying Thompson has left us too thin everywhere on this team. The problem is, we're playing too many guys too far down the depth chart all at the same time and too often. and we get things like a damaged Clay back on the field and lose another healthy LB'er and 5th DB. it's been a carousel all for a while.

While we might be too young, I still argue that I don't care if your 4th, 5th and 6th DB or safety playing DB are 6 year vets or 2nd year UDFA's. They have deficits in their game, that's why their available later or for the salary you can get them for to fill out your roster with depth guys. Put them all on the field at the same time with everything else going on around them and you're not a good team. I don't care who you are.
 
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While we might be too young, I still argue that I don't care if your 4th, 5th and 6th DB or safety playing DB are 6 year vets or 2nd year UDFA's. They have deficits in their game, that's why their available later or for the salary you can get them for to fill out your roster with depth guys. Put them all on the field at the same time with everything else going on around them and you're not a good team. I don't care who you are.

As I've posted in another thread I'm not arguing that I don't expect a drop-off in performance with the top two cornerbacks missing but that it shouldn't be as steep as with this year's team.
 

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