Michael Clark and other training camp tidbits

Mondio

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Agreed and you can take this one step further, the reason we got by doing this with the WR position is because of #12. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what happens when even guys like Jennings move on from the Packers. We saw the same thing with Favre and guys like Javon Walker looking pedestrian with another team. I know people don't want Dez in Green and Gold, but I always have to wonder what Aaron could do with someone like him (at the top of his game), Julio Jones, Beckham, etc. Aaron Rodgers is a great QB and he has had some talent to work with, but even he struggles with making average or below average receivers look good.
The only thing I remember about Walker was he his friend getting shot in his lap and dying basically and he was never really right after that. and People judge Jennings too harshly with what he had in MN. With any decent QB who could actually deliver a ball on target further than 5 yards downfield, he still would have put up big numbers. He was a very good route runner, had pretty good hands, and was as smooth as one could be on the field. It was not a one way street with Rodgers making him look good, He made Rodgers look good too. YAC yards galore, making defenders trip over their own feet etc. You can't do that if your QB can't get you the ball and your QB isn't going to get a passing TD of 50 yards when you can't make a defender miss after catching the ball at 7 yards. There's a reason Jennings was Jennings and Bret Swain was Swain in GB. Jones had his best year outside of GB with what, a 2nd year QB? at least he was proficient and Jones put up numbers similar to what he had here.

Rodgers can read a defense and throw accurately, that's going to help any WR. But the WR still has to run the route, make the adjustments, make people miss and get those YAC's. GB has had some very good guys do that. I think many underestimate what we actually had. I think Jennings leaving to catch passes from Ponder is a poor example. That guy would throw it in the dirt on a 5 yard out pattern because he sucked. Didn't matter how open Jennings was.
 

Dantés

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Agreed and you can take this one step further, the reason we got by doing this with the WR position is because of #12. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what happens when even guys like Jennings move on from the Packers. We saw the same thing with Favre and guys like Javon Walker looking pedestrian with another team. I know people don't want Dez in Green and Gold, but I always have to wonder what Aaron could do with someone like him (at the top of his game), Julio Jones, Beckham, etc. Aaron Rodgers is a great QB and he has had some talent to work with, but even he struggles with making average or below average receivers look good.

In my opinion, peak Jordy and current Adams are just a small step down from guys like Jones and Beckham. But it's hard to suss out, because Green Bay almost never lets players leave during their primes. Jennings didn't get to Minnesota until his age 30 season.

Remember, Adams had 8 games with Brett Hundley and in those games he totaled 46 receptions, 543 yards, and 5 touchdowns. So full season pace: 92/1086/10 with some of (if not THE) worst QB play in the league. Those would have been top 10 finishes in all three categories. So we have pretty solid evidence that Adams is a stud in his own right.
 

Heyjoe4

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In addition the Packers signed WRs Adonis Jennings and Kyle Lewis while placing G Cole Madison on the reserve/did not report list as he's attending to a personal matter.
Hey Captain, what do you think are the chances Madison will get meaningful reps this year? That’s hard to answer right now, but I like the guy purely at a gut level. TC and PS will be the real test, but on a totally Un-scientific basis, I like his chances. Same for J’mon Moore.
 

Heyjoe4

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Well scratch off one long shot I was excited to see this year.
Agree. I was disappointed to see Clark leave. I expected him to do well after one year under his belt. We can’t know the personal side of things, but after seeing teammate Davonte Adams take two terrible shots to the head last year, ya gotta wonder if he considered his entire life, the relatively short time he would be in the NFL (even if it was 10 plus tears), and the lasting impacts from CTE that we keep reading about.
 

Heyjoe4

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J.K. Scott’s first set (6) of punts against the rush average about 55 yard and 4.4 seconds of hang time. That’ll do.
I don’t remember the last time the Packers had anything but an average punter. If Scott lives up to his billing, that could make a big difference in a lot of games, especially early in GB when the weather is decent, and in any warm-weather cities and domes. I though Vogel did a good job last year, but Scott’s distance, hang time, and accuracy seem off the charts. Hopefully they won’t be punting a lot, but they will and this is a good example of how STs can have a big impact during the course of a game.
 
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If he led the league in returns and was third in fair catches then we might conclude he led the league in not letting the ball hit the ground which is a plus in itself, a virtue Davis has lacked to date.

The Packers forced 78 punts during the 2010 season meaning Williams let 18 hit the ground. Six of those resulted in a touchback.

Hey Captain, what do you think are the chances Madison will get meaningful reps this year? That’s hard to answer right now, but I like the guy purely at a gut level. TC and PS will be the real test, but on a totally Un-scientific basis, I like his chances.

Madison still hasn't shown up for camp therefore I don't expect him to receive any meaningful playing time this season.
 
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Mike Daniels is back at practice. In other teams news the Patriots have signed WR Eric Decker.
 

Heyjoe4

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The Packers forced 78 punts during the 2010 season meaning Williams let 18 hit the ground. Six of those resulted in a touchback.



Madison still hasn't shown up for camp therefore I don't expect him to receive any meaningful playing time this season.
That’s interesting. Why isn’t he at camp? And agree, he needs to be there and participating to play.
 
H

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The Packers forced 78 punts during the 2010 season meaning Williams let 18 hit the ground. Six of those resulted in a touchback.
To continue this pointless exchange complemented with the above unhelpful stats, the obvious point in talking about a punt returner "letting the ball hit the ground" is the typical loss of yardage vs. coming up to the ball and making a fair catch. No data base is going to tell you that Davis lets this happen too often and needs to man up. What good is it to quote an average yardage per punt return if a returner lets the ball drop too often or fair catches unless he has 10 yards of free run? That's a lot of lost yardage that the stat sheet counts as a non-return.

To state the second obvious point, only an idiot would run a punt out of the end zone unless there was no time on the clock. That takes the Williams no-catches down to 12. How many were just kicked out of bounds? The stat sheet will not say but certainly some.

Again, Williams is 35 years old and has not returned punts since 2010. He would be the emergency backup only despite the fact that 8 years ago he had an appetite for it. And if Williams and Rollins are the options, Davis' job should be pretty safe, chickening out too often notwithstanding.
 
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Poppa San

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That’s interesting. Why isn’t he at camp? And agree, he needs to be there and participating to play.
His personal reasons at this time remain, you know, personal. Probably similar to Dix(?) missing OTA for a death in his family. So far it has been less than a week. If it drags into late next week his season is shelved. Rookies two weeks behind rarely catch up.
 

Jerellh528

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In my opinion, peak Jordy and current Adams are just a small step down from guys like Jones and Beckham. But it's hard to suss out, because Green Bay almost never lets players leave during their primes. Jennings didn't get to Minnesota until his age 30 season.

Remember, Adams had 8 games with Brett Hundley and in those games he totaled 46 receptions, 543 yards, and 5 touchdowns. So full season pace: 92/1086/10 with some of (if not THE) worst QB play in the league. Those would have been top 10 finishes in all three categories. So we have pretty solid evidence that Adams is a stud in his own right.

Imo peak Jordy was closer to guys like Beckham than current Adams is to peak Jordy.
 
D

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To continue this pointless exchange complemented with the above unhelpful stats, the obvious point in talking about a punt returner "letting the ball hit the ground" is the typical loss of yardage vs. coming up to the ball and making a fair catch.

To state the second obvious point, only an idiot would run a punt out of the end zone unless there was no time on the clock. That takes the Williams no-catches down to 12.

Again, Williams is 35 years old and has not returned punts since 2010. He would be the emergency backup only despite the fact that 8 years ago he had an appetite for it. And if Williams and Rollins are the options, Davis' job should be pretty safe, chickening out too often notwithstanding.

It's interesting that you consider an exchange pointless in which I was just replying to you wondering about those numbers. But whatever man :rolleyes:

There's no doubt that Davis let the ball hit the ground too often last season though. The numbers support that claim as it happened on 24.6% of the punts against the Packers that didn't result in a touchback in 2017 comapred to only 16.7% in '10.

To sum it up, Davis has to improve fielding punts but in my opinion Williams having been the returner eight years ago doesn't result in him being considered for the job. Therefore I'm convinced Davis will make the roster solely based on him being the primary returner.

Imo peak Jordy was closer to guys like Beckham than current Adams is to peak Jordy.

Adams is a legit #1 receiver. The Packers will need someone to produce decent numbers opposite of him though.
 

Jerellh528

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It's interesting that you consider an exchange pointless in which I was just replying to you wondering about those numbers. But whatever man :rolleyes:

There's no doubt that Davis let the ball hit the ground too often last season though. The numbers support that claim as it happened on 24.6% of the punts against the Packers that didn't result in a touchback in 2017 comapred to only 16.7% in '10.

To sum it up, Davis has to improve fielding punts but in my opinion Williams having been the returner eight years ago doesn't result in him being considered for the job. Therefore I'm convinced Davis will make the roster solely based on him being the primary returner.



Adams is a legit #1 receiver. The Packers will need someone to produce decent numbers opposite of him though.

He’s a legit number 1 wr, I just feel peak Jordy was arguably a top 5 or 6 guy.
 

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The only thing I remember about Walker was he his friend getting shot in his lap and dying basically and he was never really right after that. and People judge Jennings too harshly with what he had in MN. With any decent QB who could actually deliver a ball on target further than 5 yards downfield, he still would have put up big numbers. He was a very good route runner, had pretty good hands, and was as smooth as one could be on the field. It was not a one way street with Rodgers making him look good, He made Rodgers look good too. YAC yards galore, making defenders trip over their own feet etc. You can't do that if your QB can't get you the ball and your QB isn't going to get a passing TD of 50 yards when you can't make a defender miss after catching the ball at 7 yards. There's a reason Jennings was Jennings and Bret Swain was Swain in GB. Jones had his best year outside of GB with what, a 2nd year QB? at least he was proficient and Jones put up numbers similar to what he had here.

Rodgers can read a defense and throw accurately, that's going to help any WR. But the WR still has to run the route, make the adjustments, make people miss and get those YAC's. GB has had some very good guys do that. I think many underestimate what we actually had. I think Jennings leaving to catch passes from Ponder is a poor example. That guy would throw it in the dirt on a 5 yard out pattern because he sucked. Didn't matter how open Jennings was.
I understand the bad feelings about Jennings from Packer fans but I too think that Jennings was a very naturally instinctive and talented wide receiver pretty much from the time he was drafted. Very productive and effective player for us.
 

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I would be pretty surprised, I got brown, Jones, Green, Hopkins, and Beckham top 5.
Adams has a very good skill set imo and whether he becomes a “top 5” receiver probably will depend on how many opportunities he gets. We may see continuance of the ball being spread around pretty evenly amongst all the receivingweapons.
 
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Adams has a very good skill set imo and whether he becomes a “top 5” receiver probably will depend on how many opportunities he gets. We may see continuance of the ball being spread around pretty evenly amongst all the receivingweapons.

With the Packers having only Adams, Cobb and Graham as veteran receivers threats I fully expect Adams to receive a ton of targets this season.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I wouldn't be surprised if Adams ends up being a top five receiver this season.
For the Packers right? ;)

My thoughts on Davis, for what they are worth. His all around decision making has to improve. Not just when to let a ball go, but when and where not to call a fair catch. Now maybe those are predetermined by Zook, but seems he is clueless back there in making the proper decision. I was also a bit surprised to hear that Davis had more tackles (5) as a gunner last year than Jeff Janis (4). So that is yet another reason the Packers may opt to keep him.
 

PackAttack12

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Imo peak Jordy was closer to guys like Beckham than current Adams is to peak Jordy.
Beckham is one of the all time generational WR talents the game has ever seen.

Jordy was great, but the gap between his peak and Beckham/Julio/AB was/is significant. Davante Adams was highly productive with the worst starting QB in the league in the 2nd half of the year last year.

I think Adams takes an enormous leap this season.
 

PackAttack12

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For the Packers right? ;)

My thoughts on Davis, for what they are worth. His all around decision making has to improve. Not just when to let a ball go, but when and where not to call a fair catch. Now maybe those are predetermined by Zook, but seems he is clueless back there in making the proper decision. I was also a bit surprised to hear that Davis had more tackles (5) as a gunner last year than Jeff Janis (4). So that is yet another reason the Packers may opt to keep him.
For those who are saying Davis is a lock due to make the roster due to his impact on special teams, I agree that he's the best that we have right now, but he has a long way to go to be a true special teams difference maker.
 
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For those who are saying Davis is a lock due to make the roster due to his impact on special teams, I agree that he's the best that we have right now, but he has a long way to go to be a true special teams difference maker.

Once Davis made the decision to return a punt he was actually pretty good at it.
 

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