Michael Clark and other training camp tidbits

[Heyjoe4]

Nelson wasn’t great from the get-go either. Without looking it up, I highly doubt his peak year was his third year. Jennings was the team’s best receiver in those days.

Good points all around. If I recall, it took Jordy 3 or 4 years to become “Jordy” - the ultra-precise route runner who seemed to communicate with ARod via telepathy and a guy who played much faster than his combine numbers. That kind of relationship between WR and QB takes years to develop, and for most, never really develops at all. I hope Glute made the right decision in keeping Cobb and releasing Jordy, becasue one of them had to go. Hard to argue with the logic of keeping Cobb, and so far in TC he looks good. Will be interesting to follow Jordy’s path in Oakland the next few years. I have a hunch he will quickly become their #2 WR behind Cooper.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thanks for the update. Not real encouraging, but best not to speculate. I’m disappointed becasue I thought (think) he fits the prototype for a GBP OL. Well let’s hope he gets back soon. Missing reps in TC and PS games is not a good way to make the roster, or even the practice squad.

If it isn't something that keeps him out of football forever, I imagine the Packers will stash him on the PS or maybe they can tag him with some type of designation that allows them to keep his rights until such time that he returns. I can't imagine just giving up on a 5th round pick, unless its a matter of him never returning to football.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If it isn't something that keeps him out of football forever, I imagine the Packers will stash him on the PS or maybe they can tag him with some type of designation that allows them to keep his rights until such time that he returns. I can't imagine just giving up on a 5th round pick, unless its a matter of him never returning to football.

Agreed. Unless his plan is to leave football entirely, and there has been no indication of that, then the best-case scenario (unless he really shine when he returns) is the PS. Too bad as it’s starting to look like a 5th-round pick was wasted (at least for this year).

 

[Heyjoe4]

For those who are saying Davis is a lock due to make the roster due to his impact on special teams, I agree that he's the best that we have right now, but he has a long way to go to be a true special teams difference maker.

I thought Davis did a decent job returning punts last year. But if his ONLY role is a PR, then they need to cut him and find something else. As far as I can tell, Davis has done very little to distinguish himself as a WR. Speed alone doesn’t cut it. My unrestanding is that Jaime Alexander returned punts in college, so he could conceivable replace Davis. And given the other competition at WR, well, I’m not hearing Davis’ name mentioned. I am hearing about Jake Kumerow, and until yesterday, I didn’t know who Jake Kumerow was. Apparently ARod is high on him. Davis’ time in GB may be coming to an end.

 

[Dantés]

I thought Davis did a decent job returning punts last year. But if his ONLY role is a PR, then they need to cut him and find something else. As far as I can tell, Davis has done very little to distinguish himself as a WR. Speed alone doesn’t cut it. My unrestanding is that Jaime Alexander returned punts in college, so he could conceivable replace Davis. And given the other competition at WR, well, I’m not hearing Davis’ name mentioned. I am hearing about Jake Kumerow, and until yesterday, I didn’t know who Jake Kumerow was. Apparently ARod is high on him. Davis’ time in GB may be coming to an end.

Alexander does seem to have that skill set, but they haven’t tried him there. Just my opinion, but I don’t want to risk such an important defender on return duty. So if the Packers aren’t going to give Alexander a try, they essentially have to keep Davis given the lack of other options. I’m personally fine with that. I think punt returning is a valuable enough niche that even if that’s all a guy does, he can be worth the roster spot.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Alexander does seem to have that skill set, but they haven’t tried him there. Just my opinion, but I don’t want to risk such an important defender on return duty. So if the Packers aren’t going to give Alexander a try, they essentially have to keep Davis given the lack of other options. I’m personally fine with that. I think punt returning is a valuable enough niche that even if that’s all a guy does, he can be worth the roster spot.

Good point about not exposing Alexander to injury. Seems more injuries happen on kickoffs and punts when guys are flying around and it’s hard to anticipate from where a hit is coming. And Davis did a good job as a PR, and hopefully opponents will be punting a lot more this year!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good point about not exposing Alexander to injury. Seems more injuries happen on kickoffs and punts when guys are flying around and it’s hard to anticipate from where a hit is coming. And Davis did a good job as a PR, and hopefully opponents will be punting a lot more this year!

seems like our CB's get hurt picking a piece of paper up off the ground. Not sure that just keeping them away from returning punts will keep them any safer from injury.

 

[Dantés]

seems like our CB's get hurt picking a piece of paper up off the ground. Not sure that just keeping them away from returning punts will keep them any safer from injury.

While I would suspect that being a team’s punt returner would increase one’s risk of injury, I don’t have any data to back that up. But to this point, the Packers haven’t even given Alexander a snap there that I’m aware of. And I do know that they resisted putting Cobb back in that role once he became a staple of the offense. If they won’t use him in that capacity, it very nearly settles things in Davis’ favor.

 

[Heyjoe4]

seems like our CB's get hurt picking a piece of paper up off the ground. Not sure that just keeping them away from returning punts will keep them any safer from injury.

OK that made me LOL, but it certainly seems to be painfully accurate. I don’t know that it resolves the injury issue, but at least your comment allowed for a laugh, a knowing laugh.

 

[PackFan2]

Agreed. Unless his plan is to leave football entirely, and there has been no indication of that, then the best-case scenario (unless he really shine when he returns) is the PS. Too bad as it’s starting to look like a 5th-round pick was wasted (at least for this year).

Nagler said something bout it not being a good sign. Its usually a sign a player for be out for an extended time or plan on retirement. Hope he does come and play but it is ultimately Coles decision. It's a next man up mentality. Players will just have to step up, or we have to pick up player from another team filled with o-line talent.

 

[Poppa San]

I am sure someone can do some digging to prove me wrong, but I don't really recall a rookie WR and even a second year guy breaking out, this includes some high picks through the years. As you pointed out, Jennings probably was the closest guy to "really good right out of the box". Jordy didn't start putting up impressive numbers til year 4.

The importance of this? Well if you look at the Packer WR depth chart, besides Adams and Cobb, I really can't expect much out of the rest of the group, just based on history.

Jordy started getting starting receiver numbers during the Fab-5 his fourth season. After an injury year, he was "THE GUY" for the next three seasons. So actually Jordy didn't have Jordy numbers until year 6.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I would suspect that being a team’s punt returner would increase one’s risk of injury, I don’t have any data to back that up. But to this point, the Packers haven’t even given Alexander a snap there that I’m aware of. And I do know that they resisted putting Cobb back in that role once he became a staple of the offense. If they won’t use him in that capacity, it very nearly settles things in Davis’ favor.

I tend to agree with you. Once in a blue moon, if the normal return guy is hurt or possibly in a "all on the line" playoff game, do we see starters in there returning punts and kicks. Guessing that is because as you and others have pointed out, why risk injury to a top starter? What would be nice though, is not to have to give that spot to a 5th or 6th string WR, a guy who really hasn't shown much in 2 years as a WR. Same thing goes for the gunner position. Now I did read and mentioned somewhere in here, that Davis actually "outgunned" Jeff Janis last year covering punts, so if he can excel at both of those positions and be an emergency WR, then he probably is the guy you want. I just don't want to hear "yeah we kept Davis in the 53rd slot, because he is a bit better than an average return guy." Meanwhile, a rookie is cut in hopes to slide him to the PS and another team grabs him. Ideally, with the sudden "wealth" or maybe I should say bodies at CB, one of the non-starters excels at returning punts and they can use him doing that, as well as him being a decent backup.

 

[Dantés]

I tend to agree with you. Once in a blue moon, if the normal return guy is hurt or possibly in a "all on the line" playoff game, do we see starters in there returning punts and kicks. Guessing that is because as you and others have pointed out, why risk injury to a top starter? What would be nice though, is not to have to give that spot to a 5th or 6th string WR, a guy who really hasn't shown much in 2 years as a WR. Same thing goes for the gunner position. Now I did read and mentioned somewhere in here, that Davis actually "outgunned" Jeff Janis last year covering punts, so if he can excel at both of those positions and be an emergency WR, then he probably is the guy you want. I just don't want to hear "yeah we kept Davis in the 53rd slot, because he is a bit better than an average return guy." Meanwhile, a rookie is cut in hopes to slide him to the PS and another team grabs him. Ideally, with the sudden "wealth" or maybe I should say bodies at CB, one of the non-starters excels at returning punts and they can use him doing that, as well as him being a decent backup.

Yeah, I mean... if you have to keep him for absolutely no other reason than that he can return punts, that's not ideal. But it's better than the alternative (not having a good punt returner on the roster). I've been through seasons where no one on the roster could return a punt effectively and it was a lot worse than burning a slot on a return specialist. But I do believe that Davis is and will be better than a bit over average. In his five seasons spent at Cal, he only returned 14 punts. Add to that his 9 as a rookie and he wasn't that experienced entering 2017. Considering that, it makes sense that he had issues with decision-making. I thought he got better as the season progressed. If he improves that aspect while maintaining the pure return skills, he's going to be really good. If he's a good gunner, as you say, then the combination of those things is easily worth a roster spot. And of course, he is only entering his 3rd season as a receiver. It's still possible that he offers something on the offense. He's never going to be a major role player, but I think "not completely useless" is within his grasp.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nagler said something bout it not being a good sign. Its usually a sign a player for be out for an extended time or plan on retirement. Hope he does come and play but it is ultimately Coles decision. It's a next man up mentality. Players will just have to step up, or we have to pick up player from another team filled with o-line talent.

Yeah it’s not a good sign. Well hopefully he shows up. But yeah, they’d need to look for some outside help if Madison is indeed walking away. And they’re short at ILB with Ryan out for the season. Gotta roll with it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, I mean... if you have to keep him for absolutely no other reason than that he can return punts, that's not ideal. But it's better than the alternative (not having a good punt returner on the roster). I've been through seasons where no one on the roster could return a punt effectively and it was a lot worse than burning a slot on a return specialist. But I do believe that Davis is and will be better than a bit over average. In his five seasons spent at Cal, he only returned 14 punts. Add to that his 9 as a rookie and he wasn't that experienced entering 2017. Considering that, it makes sense that he had issues with decision-making. I thought he got better as the season progressed. If he improves that aspect while maintaining the pure return skills, he's going to be really good. If he's a good gunner, as you say, then the combination of those things is easily worth a roster spot. And of course, he is only entering his 3rd season as a receiver. It's still possible that he offers something on the offense. He's never going to be a major role player, but I think "not completely useless" is within his grasp.

It would be nice if Davis could up his game as WR. I haven’t seen that yet. But anticipating opponents will be punting more this season, makes sense to keep Davis, who did a decent job returning punts last year.

 

[Dantés]

I am consistently reading that Montravious Adams is having a great camp, especially as a pass rusher. He was impressing last year too before he got hurt. They may have something here. They're already deep on the DL, but having yet another good player is just going to allow them to send waves at opposing offenses. And of course, injuries typically thin depth out, at least for portions of the season. I think Adams could be a big help to Daniels by giving him more spells and keeping him fresh deeper into the year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am consistently reading that Montravious Adams is having a great camp, especially as a pass rusher. He was impressing last year too before he got hurt. They may have something here. They're already deep on the DL, but having yet another good player is just going to allow them to send waves at opposing offenses. And of course, injuries typically thin depth out, at least for portions of the season. I think Adams could be a big help to Daniels by giving him more spells and keeping him fresh deeper into the year.

All good points. And depth on the DL will allow Pettine to rotate guys more, keeping them fresh and, ideally, less susceptible to injury.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

It would be nice if Davis could up his game as WR. I haven’t seen that yet. But anticipating opponents will be punting more this season, makes sense to keep Davis, who did a decent job returning punts last year.

Being out with a hammy last night it not helping his cause.

I have never been impressed with Davis, but who knows. It took Jordy 4 years to become the WR that we love.

I'm still hoping that at least one of the rookies can be of help this season. For some reason I really like EQ and am hoping he can make the 53.

 

[Mondio]

Jordy showed stuff before he became THE man. I can't remember it was 1st or 2nd year, but it seemed ever catch he had was for a big 3rd down conversion. Not a ton of catches, but all important 1st downs and TD's it seemed. when a ball had to be caught, they seemed to rely on him a lot that one year and he came thru every time. Not to say he didn't have a couple ups and downs along the way, but he showed he had good stuff in there. Davis hasn't shown anything in the way of being a WR. Not at all.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

That's true. And I do like what I'm hearing about Allison. Apparently he's eaves-dropping on Aaron's conversations with the other receivers picking up what he can. We'll see if it leads to anything.

I don't remember him doing anything special last night, but I wasn't able to watch the whole thing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nelson wasn’t great from the get-go either. Without looking it up, I highly doubt his peak year was his third year. Jennings was the team’s best receiver in those days.

Nelson broke out in his fourth season catching 68 balls for 1,263 yards and 15 touchdowns.

I am sure someone can do some digging to prove me wrong, but I don't really recall a rookie WR and even a second year guy breaking out, this includes some high picks through the years.

Since Rodgers became the starter the best season a receiver had either in his rookie or second season was Cobb having 80 receptions for 954 yards and eight touchdowns in 2011.

If it isn't something that keeps him out of football forever, I imagine the Packers will stash him on the PS or maybe they can tag him with some type of designation that allows them to keep his rights until such time that he returns.

The Packers already placed Madison on the Reserve/Did Not Report list meaning the team is able to keep his rights while he doesn't count against the roster limit.

It would be nice if Davis could up his game as WR. I haven’t seen that yet. But anticipating opponents will be punting more this season, makes sense to keep Davis, who did a decent job returning punts last year.

I'm not confident Davis will significantly improve as a wide receiver. He will make the roster based on his performance on special teams though.

Jordy showed stuff before he became THE man. I can't remember it was 1st or 2nd year, but it seemed ever catch he had was for a big 3rd down conversion. Not a ton of catches, but all important 1st downs and TD's it seemed. when a ball had to be caught, they seemed to rely on him a lot that one year and he came thru every time.

Well, Nelson put up decent numbers on third or fourth down during his rookie season in 2008 converting eight out of 24 targets (33.3%) into first downs. For some reason he didn't have similar success during his second year (1-of-9, 11.1%).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So, Buffalo traded a 2020 7th round pick to the Browns for Corey Coleman, a first-round pick at WR just two years ago. Coleman certainly hasn't played like a first round pick but I don't get why the packers weren't in that market considering the questions they have at WR.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So, Buffalo traded a 2020 7th round pick to the Browns for Corey Coleman, a first-round pick at WR just two years ago. Coleman certainly hasn't played like a first round pick but I don't get why the packers weren't in that market considering the questions they have at WR.

As you mentioned Coleman not living up to being a first round pick (only 56 receptions in two seasons) was most likely the reason the Packers didn't acquire him.

 

[HardRightEdge]

As you mentioned Coleman not living up to being a first round pick (only 56 receptions in two seasons) was most likely the reason the Packers didn't acquire him.

Coleman broke his right hand as a rookie missing 6 games then broke it again last season resulting in 7 missed games. To what extent this either limited his development, has resulted in permanent impairment and dropped balls, or whether he's simply a bust in having maxed out at the college level, I could not say.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I know not everyone thinks that MM is a great coach, but I do think that he knows his players and what they need. Pulling out the McCarthy olympics was clever and much needed by his players. Looks like they enjoyed themselves.