Let’s have a serious conversation…aka ditch Anders

[gopkrs]

His brother had a shaky season with the Vikes, then was released and set records for the Raiders under Bisaccia. I think we get some competition, but this talk of releasing him outright is dumb considering the potential. I understand he is not his brother, but they drafted him to be a project for Bisaccia, so let Bisaccia cook.

I don't think we want a project this year where it looks like we could be very good. If he makes a bunch of mistakes in preseason or early in the season; I say go with someone else. Would not mind spending a late round pick on a kicker.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't think we want a project this year where it looks like we could be very good. If he makes a bunch of mistakes in preseason or early in the season; I say go with someone else. Would not mind spending a late round pick on a kicker.

Ummm....Carlson was a 6th round pick and as you said, is still a project. Doubling down and drafting another kicker in a late round, might not be the solution. Which is funny for me to say, because I was always in favor of locking in the best kicker of the draft, with a late round pick. Anders has made me rethink that strategy. That or Bisaccia and Gute were terribly wrong about the guy.

Anyway, bring in a Veteran and if Anders still looks like a project at the end of August and the Veteran doesn't, cut Anders.

 

[mradtke66]

Ummm....Carlson was a 6th round pick and as you said, is still a project. Doubling down and drafting another kicker in a late round, might not be the solution. Which is funny for me to say, because I was always in favor of locking in the best kicker of the draft, with a late round pick. Anders has made me rethink that strategy. That or Bisaccia and Gute were terribly wrong about the guy.

Anyway, bring in a Veteran and if Anders still looks like a project at the end of August and the Veteran doesn't, cut Anders.

I don't mind taking the risk for one more preseason at least.

Anders popped his ACL in 2021 and he got an extra year (COVID related?) to play in 2022. 2022 was pretty poor for him, probably because he wasn't fully healed. He had a mediocre rookie season, but it's his first back being healthy. And it's his first year in the Pros. That isn't a small amount of change. And it's a rough schedule of injury -> surgery -> rehab -> playing the next season -> prepping for being drafted -> getting drafted -> playing a full season.

Let's see what he can do when he has a chance to rest and go through an entire professional offseason and preseason.

 

[Voyageur]

I think Anders will be just fine. He may not be a 95% kicker this year, but I don't think anyone could be, who has to kick in Lambeau Field for half of their games.

Unless he goes to shank city, and drills our tackles in the rear with his kicks, I think he wins the job. There's no guarantee that a newbie will be any better.

That said, it is still possible that some guy will show up on their radar, end up in camp, and be able to kick as well as Annie Oakley could hit targets. We'll see, as preseason winds down.

I honestly don't remember of any kicker for an opposing team getting excited, and saying; "Goody! I get to go kick in Lambeau Field!"

If they did, they should be committed.

 

[El Guapo]

Agreed. He should be fine. Now that they have a camp leg on the roster for competition, I fully believe that bringing in a veteran FA kicker will be good competition and frankly motivation for Carlson. I have full faith in him. Crosby always said that he kicked better with real competition.

 

[Heyjoe4]

His brother had a shaky season with the Vikes, then was released and set records for the Raiders under Bisaccia. I think we get some competition, but this talk of releasing him outright is dumb considering the potential. I understand he is not his brother, but they drafted him to be a project for Bisaccia, so let Bisaccia cook.

I didn't hear any talk of releasing Carlson outright. Where did you see that? I agree it would be a dumb move without a replacement and I doubt the team would even consider it.

I did hear that the Packers intend to bring in competition. That can only help him. There also seems to be no pattern to his kicks. He'll mis some and then rattle off a number of good kicks. So maybe it's just time. And the solid, reliable NFL kickers don't grow on trees. It's a hard position to fill and the Packers have had a solid streak of very good kickers, so we're a little spoiled.

No matter, can't have a repeat of last season.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think Anders will be just fine. He may not be a 95% kicker this year, but I don't think anyone could be, who has to kick in Lambeau Field for half of their games.

Unless he goes to shank city, and drills our tackles in the rear with his kicks, I think he wins the job. There's no guarantee that a newbie will be any better.

That said, it is still possible that some guy will show up on their radar, end up in camp, and be able to kick as well as Annie Oakley could hit targets. We'll see, as preseason winds down.

I honestly don't remember of any kicker for an opposing team getting excited, and saying; "Goody! I get to go kick in Lambeau Field!"

If they did, they should be committed.

We've been pretty spoiled with good kickers. There was one guy on here who swore Crosby was no good. Crosby's percentages may have trended to the average, but he was a money kicker. When it really counted, he usually came through. I remember the playoff win in Dallas when he had to kick a 50 yard game winner, and twice because a TO was called just before the first one.

All that said, Carlson, or whoever gets the job, has to be better than what we got last year. Too many big misses in big games. Or maybe I'm just thinking of that missed 40 yarder against the niners. Either way, gotta be close to perfect on those.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

All that said, Carlson, or whoever gets the job, has to be better than what we got last year. Too many big misses in big games.

That folks seems to be the bottom line for fans when it comes to kickers. "We don't want to hear your name, ever. However, if we do, it's probably bad."

Now I realize that kickers don't have as physically as tough of a job as the other positions, but their mental game might be the most difficult of any of the positions. They sit on the sideline, doing nothing, jump up and warm up a bit if it looks like they will be kicking and then all eyes are on them and that "game winning kick."

 

[Thirteen Below]

That folks seems to be the bottom line for fans when it comes to kickers. "We don't want to hear your name, ever. However, if we do, it's probably bad."

Now I realize that kickers don't have as physically as tough of a job as the other positions, but their mental game might be the most difficult of any of the positions. They sit on the sideline, doing nothing, jump up and warm up a bit if it looks like they will be kicking and then all eyes are on them and that "game winning kick."

I know. So many people say, "well, all they have to do is kick a ball", but you know what? All a pitcher has to do is throw a ball. All a goalie has to do is stop a puck. Anyone can do it, right?

Kicking (especially at the NFL leve) is an incredibly difficult, demanding task. Your timing has to be precise within a tiny fraction of a second, and your footwork literally within millimeters. Every single time. The swing of your leg has to be nearly perfect, every single time. Your plant foot has to come down in the exact right spot relative to the spot of the ball, certainly within an inch and preferably within a half inch, in order for your kicking foot to be at exactly the right point when the arc of the foot connects with the ball. Every single time.

As you make contact, your hips need to be square, your back straight, your head down, and your chest out over the ball. You have to strike it perfectly on the seam (and let's just hope your holder got the ball down in proper alignment), and it also needs to be as close as possible to perfectly vertical or the flight of the ball may bend or wobble. So, hopefully he got that right too, and that his timing is as precise as yours and perfectly in sync. Every single time, of course.

Your kicking foot needs to strike the ball about 1/3 of the way up - a little higher or a little lower, depending on the distance and how flat or how high a trajectory you want. You also need to visualize in your mind the arc the ball needs to follow in order to clear the defensive linemen and comfortably clear the uprights on the other end of its flight, and that trajectory is different on every distance and wind condition, and while you visualize that path in your mind, your kicking foot needs to follow the exact angle of the first portion of the arc so when the ball leaves your foot it's on the proper trajectory.

Every single time.

Meanwhile, you need to be watching for wind gusts and calculating wind into your aimimg point, possibly adjusting your intended trajectory for the ball in order to line-drive it through the wind - which means adjusting the angle of your foot and the impact point on the ball by a few millimeters, and oh by the way it's raining. Or snowing. Or both. So pray to heaven that your plant foot doesn't even slip an inch on the turf.

Oh, and if - while you're running up to the ball - you notice that the snap is off or the holder slightly bobbles the catch, you need to instantly "hitch" a step halfway through the stride so that you get to the ball a fraction of a second late; but you need to think quickly, because that has to be both decided and done within a half second, without disrupting your approach or allowing the sudden change in stride to affect the alignment of your hips and upper body.

In fact, all of these things that need to be done exactly the same way and nearly perfectly Every Single Time all take place in the span of less than 1.3 seconds at the absolute most on every single kick.

And all this while 70,000 people are watching you from the stands and millions more on television, and if you miss the kick half of them will be furious at you. But of course, if you make it, the other half will be furious. But I guess they sort of cancel each other out, so don't even think about that, right? In fact, don't let any of it get inside your head, because after all - you're only kicking a ball. Anyone can do it, can't they?

 

[Thirteen Below]

I didn't hear any talk of releasing Carlson outright. Where did you see that? I agree it would be a dumb move without a replacement and I doubt the team would even consider it.

I did hear that the Packers intend to bring in competition. That can only help him. There also seems to be no pattern to his kicks. He'll mis some and then rattle off a number of good kicks. So maybe it's just time.

The thing that troubles me is that there also seems to be no pattern to his misses. With a lot of young kickers, you can see a tendency in the way they miss - they tend to hook it left, or slice it right, or shank it, or whatever, but they usually make the same mistake more often than not.

But my impression is that Carlson doesn't do that. He just... misses. Misses whatever, misses whenever. Misses left, misses right, misses short... long kicks, short kicks... he's perfect from 20-39 yards, but misses over half his kicks over 40 yards, as well as 5 extra points.

And I don't know how much more we can expect of him, because I've never understood what the heck he's doing here in the first place. Obviously the experts see something in him that I'm not seeing, and I do defer to their experience and judgment - but a year into the Carlson thing, I'm having a hard time seeing just exactly what it is they saw. In his senior year, he ranked 85th in accuracy among all NCAA 116 placekickers - with an accuracy rate of 70.6%.

To be fair, college success is not always an accurate indicator of a future accurate NFL kicker. Kansas City's Harrison Butker went 71.7% at Georgia Tech, and his 7-year NFL career field goal percentage is 89.1%. And KC seems quite pleased with him.

Seattle's Jason Myers went 63.2% at Marist (whatever the hell a Marist is), and has a lifetime percentage of 83.3% - including a perfect season in 2020. He was a UFA too, but a walk-on. In fact, he worked as a parking valet in Los Angeles for 3 years after graduating, working on his kicking technique constantly, before finally showing up at a tryout camp that Jacksonville held at the Senior Bowl in 2015. He made an impression, and hit 86.7% his roookie season with Jax.

Both of these guys entered the NFL with some huge question marks about what they were doing there, but at some point, something "clicked", and it all came together.

But there's another example who may more closely match Carlson at this stage...

One of the true all-time greats, Robbie Gould, hit 63.9 percent at Penn State, and 3 of his 4 seasons were 60% or lower. He was an undrafted free agent in the Patriots' camp in 2005; they shooed him away and he knocked on Baltimore's door. They sent him on his way after a couple of weeks, and finally Chicago gave him a try when their kicker went down in Week 3. He finished 2005 with Chicago, and honestly had an even worse rookie season than Carlson (77.8%), but they brought him back in 06 and he freakin' rocked - 88.9%.

And he never looked back. He retired last year, ending up 10th all-time in scoring and 8th in field goal percentage - 86.9%.

If you look at Gould's college career and first season in the NFL and compare it to Carlson's equivalent stats, Gould looked even worse, but somewhere along the way someone looked at him and said, "this kid is close, if he can just work out one or two things" - and for whatever reasons, they turned out to be right.

And maybe it's that way with Carlson, as well. Maybe 2024 is the season he bangs 88.9%, too. But I'm just not sure what Green Bay saw in his college career that made them think he was an NFL guy.

In college, he was 25 out of 39 between 40-49 yards (64%), and 5 for 17 over 50 yards (29%). All the scouting reports say he had a short leg, couldn't be counted on over 40 yards, soft and weak kickoffs - 42% of his kickoffs were returned by the other team, which plonked him at #99 out of 116, and he had too many kicks blocked because he was slow in his technique and couldn't get the ball off before the D-line was 2 feet off the ground with their hands in the air. And his weak leg made it less likely that his trajectory would be high enough to get the ball above the blockers.

So yeah, maybe he will do a Robbie Gould and make a huge turnaround. Objectively, Mason Crosby got off to a worse start than Carlson, and it really took a couple-few years before he settled in. Statistically, Carlson did much better this year than Crosby did for at least a couple of years, except that Carlson seems to pick the most crucially awful moments to **** up. So in comparison, maybe he seems even more bad than Mason.

So yeah, maybe Carlson will work through it too. And I'm perfectly OK with giving him a shot at showing us that in 24.

Just still scratching my head trying to figure out what was so special that we drafted him in the first place, other than that Bisaccio spoke out strongly for him because he worked with his older brother and was impressed. And there really is some degree of validity to that; drafting a kicker to develop in the future involves a number of intangibles, some of which involve things like character, personality, core values. etc. I get that, and don't necessarily fault it. But I just hope that Bisaccio saw a few more measurable, tangible qualities beyond "his brother really rocked".

I guess this is the year we find out.

Carlson seems like a great kid. I hope he settles into a better groove this season with a year's experience under his belt, and some more focused coaching. I'm pulling for him. I'm just puzzled over how he even wound up here, and haven't seen any measurable answers so far.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The thing that troubles me is that there also seems to be no pattern to his misses. With a lot of young kickers, you can see a tendency in the way they miss - they tend to hook it left, or slice it right, or shank it, or whatever, but they usually make the same mistake more often than not.

But my impression is that Carlson doesn't do that. He just... misses. Misses whatever, misses whenever. Misses left, misses right, misses short... long kicks, short kicks... he's perfect from 20-39 yards, but misses over half his kicks over 40 yards, as well as 5 extra points.

And I don't know how much more we can expect of him, because I've never understood what the heck he's doing here in the first place. Obviously the experts see something in him that I'm not seeing, and I do defer to their experience and judgment - but a year into the Carlson thing, I'm having a hard time seeing just exactly what it is they saw. In his senior year, he ranked 85th in accuracy among all NCAA 116 placekickers - with an accuracy rate of 70.6%.

To be fair, college success is not always an accurate indicator of a future accurate NFL kicker. Kansas City's Harrison Butker went 71.7% at Georgia Tech, and his 7-year NFL career field goal percentage is 89.1%. And KC seems quite pleased with him.

Seattle's Jason Myers went 63.2% at Marist (whatever the hell a Marist is), and has a lifetime percentage of 83.3% - including a perfect season in 2020. He was a UFA too, but a walk-on. In fact, he worked as a parking valet in Los Angeles for 3 years after graduating, working on his kicking technique constantly, before finally showing up at a tryout camp that Jacksonville held at the Senior Bowl in 2015. He made an impression, and hit 86.7% his roookie season with Jax.

Both of these guys entered the NFL with some huge question marks about what they were doing there, but at some point, something "clicked", and it all came together.

But there's another example who may more closely match Carlson at this stage...

One of the true all-time greats, Robbie Gould, hit 63.9 percent at Penn State, and 3 of his 4 seasons were 60% or lower. He was an undrafted free agent in the Patriots' camp in 2005; they shooed him away and he knocked on Baltimore's door. They sent him on his way after a couple of weeks, and finally Chicago gave him a try when their kicker went down in Week 3. He finished 2005 with Chicago, and honestly had an even worse rookie season than Carlson (77.8%), but they brought him back in 06 and he freakin' rocked - 88.9%.

And he never looked back. He retired last year, ending up 10th all-time in scoring and 8th in field goal percentage - 86.9%.

If you look at Gould's college career and first season in the NFL and compare it to Carlson's equivalent stats, Gould looked even worse, but somewhere along the way someone looked at him and said, "this kid is close, if he can just work out one or two things" - and for whatever reasons, they turned out to be right.

And maybe it's that way with Carlson, as well. Maybe 2024 is the season he bangs 88.9%, too. But I'm just not sure what Green Bay saw in his college career that made them think he was an NFL guy.

In college, he was 25 out of 39 between 40-49 yards (64%), and 5 for 17 over 50 yards (29%). All the scouting reports say he had a short leg, couldn't be counted on over 40 yards, soft and weak kickoffs - 42% of his kickoffs were returned by the other team, which plonked him at #99 out of 116, and he had too many kicks blocked because he was slow in his technique and couldn't get the ball off before the D-line was 2 feet off the ground with their hands in the air. And his weak leg made it less likely that his trajectory would be high enough to get the ball above the blockers.

So yeah, maybe he will do a Robbie Gould and make a huge turnaround. Objectively, Mason Crosby got off to a worse start than Carlson, and it really took a couple-few years before he settled in. Statistically, Carlson did much better this year than Crosby did for at least a couple of years, except that Carlson seems to pick the most crucially awful moments to **** up. So it seems even more bad in comparison.

So yeah, maybe Carlson will work through it too. And I'm perfectly OK with giving him a shot at showing us that in 24.

Just still scratching my head trying to figure out what was so special that we drafted him in the first place, other than that Bisaccio spoke out strongly for him because he worked with his older brother and was impressed. And there really is some degree of validity to that; drafting a kicker to develop in the future involves a number of intangibles, some of which involve things like character, personality, core values. etc. I get that, and don't necessarily fault it. But I just hope that Bisaccio saw a few more measurable, tangible qualities beyond "his brother really rocked".

I guess this is the year we find out.

Carlson seems like a great kid. I hope he settles into a better groove this season with a year's experience under his belt, and some more focused coaching. I'm pulling for him. I'm just puzzled over how he even wound up here, and haven't seen any measurable answers so far.

You and Poker raise good points. As far as all the variables and the pressure, well welcome to the pros. If a guy can't handle that pressure and deal with those variables, he should be doing something else. Every player should know what is expected of him, and deliver. We're all held to those standards in our careers, we just usually get paid a lot less.

As for Carlson specifically, yeah it's maddening that there is no pattern, no way to predict when he's in a tough situation or not, because he misses in both. He doesn't seem particularly stressed and unlike Crosby, puts his bad kicks behind him quickly. So maybe he will get in the groove and be much more consistent this season cause the current product ain't working.

 

[Poppa San]

he became known as "Money" Mason Crosby

Was that before or after he was referred to as "Missin'" Crosby

I think Anders will be just fine. He may not be a 95% kicker this year, but I don't think anyone could be, who has to kick in Lambeau Field for half of their games.

Kicking at Lambeau is not the excuse most make it to be. Think about it. Half the games are not at Lambeau. Of those that are plus the one in Chicago, fewer than half are in actually cold or winter type weather. Most games before Thanksgiving are "what a glorious fall day for football" weather. It would be the difference in maybe 3 or 4 potential misses over the season. Potential for crappy weather is a risk all non-dome teams deal with.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know. So many people say, "well, all they have to do is kick a ball", but you know what? All a pitcher has to do is throw a ball. All a goalie has to do is stop a puck. Anyone can do it, right?

Kicking (especially at the NFL leve) is an incredibly difficult, demanding task. Your timing has to be precise within a tiny fraction of a second, and your footwork literally within millimeters. Every single time. The swing of your leg has to be nearly perfect, every single time. Your plant foot has to come down in the exact right spot relative to the spot of the ball, certainly within an inch and preferably within a half inch, in order for your kicking foot to be at exactly the right point when the arc of the foot connects with the ball. Every single time.

As you make contact, your hips need to be square, your back straight, your head down, and your chest out over the ball. You have to strike it perfectly on the seam (and let's just hope your holder got the ball down in proper alignment), and it also needs to be as close as possible to perfectly vertical or the flight of the ball may bend or wobble. So, hopefully he got that right too, and that his timing is as precise as yours and perfectly in sync. Every single time, of course.

Your kicking foot needs to strike the ball about 1/3 of the way up - a little higher or a little lower, depending on the distance and how flat or how high a trajectory you want. You also need to visualize in your mind the arc the ball needs to follow in order to clear the defensive linemen and comfortably clear the uprights on the other end of its flight, and that trajectory is different on every distance and wind condition, and while you visualize that path in your mind, your kicking foot needs to follow the exact angle of the first portion of the arc so when the ball leaves your foot it's on the proper trajectory.

Every single time.

Meanwhile, you need to be watching for wind gusts and calculating wind into your aimimg point, possibly adjusting your intended trajectory for the ball in order to line-drive it through the wind - which means adjusting the angle of your foot and the impact point on the ball by a few millimeters, and oh by the way it's raining. Or snowing. Or both. So pray to heaven that your plant foot doesn't even slip an inch on the turf.

Oh, and if - while you're running up to the ball - you notice that the snap is off or the holder slightly bobbles the catch, you need to instantly "hitch" a step halfway through the stride so that you get to the ball a fraction of a second late; but you need to think quickly, because that has to be both decided and done within a half second, without disrupting your approach or allowing the sudden change in stride to affect the alignment of your hips and upper body.

In fact, all of these things that need to be done exactly the same way and nearly perfectly Every Single Time all take place in the span of less than 1.3 seconds at the absolute most on every single kick.

And all this while 70,000 people are watching you from the stands and millions more on television, and if you miss the kick half of them will be furious at you. But of course, if you make it, the other half will be furious. But I guess they sort of cancel each other out, so don't even think about that, right? In fact, don't let any of it get inside your head, because after all - you're only kicking a ball. Anyone can do it, can't they?

Well said. Sounds like you did some kicking in your day?

I would also add to your things effecting a kicker, the snap, the hold and the blockers. Any issue with those 3 things and no matter how good of a kicker you are, you might be fooked.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You and Poker raise good points. As far as all the variables and the pressure, well welcome to the pros. If a guy can't handle that pressure and deal with those variables, he should be doing something else. Every player should know what is expected of him, and deliver. We're all held to those standards in our careers, we just usually get paid a lot less.

As for Carlson specifically, yeah it's maddening that there is no pattern, no way to predict when he's in a tough situation or not, because he misses in both. He doesn't seem particularly stressed and unlike Crosby, puts his bad kicks behind him quickly. So maybe he will get in the groove and be much more consistent this season cause the current product ain't working.

While I agree with you, I have to ask, just how many "exceptional" kickers are there in the NFL each year in the NFL? How many of those guys are great the next year and the year after? Yes, you have your Justin Tuckers, who just seem to be an exception to the rules of kicking, but each season seems to bring new problems with old and new kickers. Heck, even the great Justin Tucker only made 86.5% of his FG attempts in 2023. However, when you dig deep into his stats, you will notice that of the 5 kicks he missed, 1 was between 40-49 yds, 3 were 50-59 and 1 was a 60+ yd. miss.

Heck, Anders was 3 of 4 from 50-59 yards out. Tucker was 1 of 4 from 50-59.

While I am not really trying to defend Anders, because the guy needs to improve on XP's and consistency, I am defending the position. Finding that perfect kicker isn't easy and even when you do, he's going to miss some kicks, get into ruts, have issues with his holder, snapper or OL.

 

[Heyjoe4]

While I agree with you, I have to ask, just how many "exceptional" kickers are there in the NFL each year in the NFL? How many of those guys are great the next year and the year after? Yes, you have your Justin Tuckers, who just seem to be an exception to the rules of kicking, but each season seems to bring new problems with old and new kickers. Heck, even the great Justin Tucker only made 86.5% of his FG attempts in 2023. However, when you dig deep into his stats, you will notice that of the 5 kicks he missed, 1 was between 40-49 yds, 3 were 50-59 and 1 was a 60+ yd. miss.

Heck, Anders was 3 of 4 from 50-59 yards out. Tucker was 1 of 4 from 50-59.

While I am not really trying to defend Anders, because the guy needs to improve on XP's and consistency, I am defending the position. Finding that perfect kicker isn't easy and even when you do, he's going to miss some kicks, get into ruts, have issues with his holder, snapper or OL.

Interesting. A lot of Carlson's misses were head scratchers. And there are at least two other guys involved - snapper and holder. There is seldom talk about how good all three guys are at their job.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting. A lot of Carlson's misses were head scratchers. And there are at least two other guys involved - snapper and holder. There is seldom talk about how good all three guys are at their job.

Needless to say, all 3 players, Carlson (K), Whelen (P) and Orzech (LS) were new to the Packers last season, but more importantly, new to each other. I know that there were times when a missed kick wasn't on Carlson, but on the snap, hold or blocking, so there is that too.

I recall Crosby going through growing pains whenever he had a new LS and/or holder. So perhaps if all 3 players are on the roster in 2024, their 3-way coordination will be better. Also, with experience together, I think that might give Carlson more confidence in the other 2 guys and less to worry about.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Needless to say, all 3 players, Carlson (K), Whelen (P) and Orzech (LS) were new to the Packers last season, but more importantly, new to each other. I know that there were times when a missed kick wasn't on Carlson, but on the snap, hold or blocking, so there is that too.

I recall Crosby going through growing pains whenever he had a new LS and/or holder. So perhaps if all 3 players are on the roster in 2024, their 3-way coordination will be better.

I hope so. I think Carlson will be the K in 2024. He'll face some much needed competition in camp.

It seemed like last year he got a pass on competition because he was drafted. That doesn't make sense, and I may have this wrong. I don't recall any discussion about competition for the position last summer.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hope so. I think Carlson will be the K in 2024. He'll face some much needed competition in camp.

It seemed like last year he got a pass on competition because he was drafted. That doesn't make sense, and I may have this wrong. I don't recall any discussion about competition for the position last summer.

I also don't think that Gute, MLF or pretty much any Packer fan, expected the team to make the playoffs. So entering what they felt was a rebuild season, a rookie kicker on a rookie salary, wasn't a bad way to go.

 

[Schultz]

I also don't think that Gute, MLF or pretty much any Packer fan, expected the team to make the playoffs. So entering what they felt was a rebuild season, a rookie kicker on a rookie salary, wasn't a bad way to go.

True, not bad way to go, well unless you make the playoffs.

 

[Thirteen Below]

You and Poker raise good points. As far as all the variables and the pressure, well welcome to the pros. If a guy can't handle that pressure and deal with those variables, he should be doing something else. Every player should know what is expected of him, and deliver. We're all held to those standards in our careers, we just usually get paid a lot less.

As for Carlson specifically, yeah it's maddening that there is no pattern, no way to predict when he's in a tough situation or not, because he misses in both. He doesn't seem particularly stressed and unlike Crosby, puts his bad kicks behind him quickly. So maybe he will get in the groove and be much more consistent this season cause the current product ain't working.

Yes, that second point is a little out of the parameters of what we might expect - he seems to do very well under pressure. I read several of his scouting reports from last year, and one thing came up more than a couple of times was that high-pressure game situations don't seem to affect him. A couple of reports said that he seemed to be a level-headed kid who thrives under pressure. Which is a very encouraging trait in a kicker, obviously.

But it does make it harder to figure out what the common factor is in his innacuracy. If it's not the stress of the game situation getting inside his head, what is affecting his performance?

I know that we're at the "totally unfounded speculation" stage here, but I almost wonder if the answer lies in one of the other common factors in his scouting reports - that he moves through the play much more slowly than other kickers do. Maybe he just takes an extra tenth of a second to make the split-second decisions that need to be made, to successfully complete every step in the process.

As you said in another post, he's not the only man involved in the kick. I'm not smart enough to watch his kicks and pick out every single detail, but I do know that Green Bay has had trouble for years finding a truly reliable long snapper - and that there seemed to be a number of kicks last year where the snap either seemed to be at least "an" issue, and some where it seemed to be pretty clearly a big part of the problem (as we saw at least once in the Niners game), but I can't help wondering if there's more to that than we realize.

I can't see all the layers of what's happening here, so I just have to trust Bissacia and the coaching staff to see the second and third levels and do what needs to be done.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I also don't think that Gute, MLF or pretty much any Packer fan, expected the team to make the playoffs. So entering what they felt was a rebuild season, a rookie kicker on a rookie salary, wasn't a bad way to go.

Good point. Like the dog who catches the mailman's truck. "Whoa, whoa, never expected that to happen.... now what do I do?"

But there's still the argument that they coulda seen the way the wind was blowing toward the end of the season and saw the wisdom of bringing someone in. Although, yeah... bringing in a new kicker in Week 16, 17, or 18 risks torpedoing the rookie's confidence at a time when he least needs that to be happening. Maybe they looked carefully at the whole equation, and concluded that undermining Carlson's confidence in the home stretch was the greater risk.

I guess they looked at both sides, and decided that standing pat represented the less obvious risk. Perhaps it turned out to be a mistake, but if it was, it could have been a mistake made for all the right reasons. That happens a lot in this world, even though we would usually prefer things were more simple.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Well said. Sounds like you did some kicking in your day?

I was a punter, with a big leg, so in junior high they tried to make me a placekicker too. I just never found the knack.

I grew up on a farm in North Central Wisconsin in the 60s; an only child, a mile from the nearest neighbor, and no internet or cable TV. Just me and my dog. In the winter, my dad flooded part of the pasture, and I skated and practiced with the puck, but in the summer it was just hit a baseball or punt the football in the pasture; walk over, punt it somewhere else, walk over and kick it again, etc. All summer. I was 6'4" in my teens, so I had the build to boom it, and I would sometimes practice placement by aiming at the horses 40-50 yards away.

I know, I know. Poor horses; they never knew what the hell was happening.

But anyway, yeah... I just never mastered placekicking. It was a lot harder than I expected it to be. Accurately placing a punt was a breeze for me, but kicking with my toe rather than the top of my foot was way beyond me.

I would also add to your things effecting a kicker, the snap, the hold and the blockers. Any issue with those 3 things and no matter how good of a kicker you are, you might be fooked.

Yeah, that's something I didn't mention because I was already really wordy. But for a rookie kicker, any inconsistencies in the "snap and hold" parts of the process could possibly make it difficult for him to find his groove. Not to make excuses, because a pro needs to be able master that, but... who knows?

The guy did have a better rookie season than Mason Crosby, statistically, so he's not a total disaster. Maybe we just got spoiled and have high standards. I don't know. Maybe 24 is "his" season, and we'll never look back. But one thing for sure is, we need some competition in camp this summer.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I also don't think that Gute, MLF or pretty much any Packer fan, expected the team to make the playoffs. So entering what they felt was a rebuild season, a rookie kicker on a rookie salary, wasn't a bad way to go.

Maybe. It's not really possible to know how a rookie is going to do in the NFL.

But I don't think you gamble on a kicker because you expect an off season. Even so, maybe they did get what could have been reasonably expected, an up and down season, mostly up.

Looking ahead, I expect Carlson will be back. He'll have competition in camp and PS and that will sharpen him a bit. He's a decent kicker, just very unpredictable. That's what he has to eliminate and I think some competition will tighten his focus. I'm pretty sure other kickers have gone through this.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Looking ahead, I expect Carlson will be back. He'll have competition in camp and PS and that will sharpen him a bit. He's a decent kicker, just very unpredictable. That's what he has to eliminate and I think some competition will tighten his focus. I'm pretty sure other kickers have gone through this.

He will definitely be back in camp, but he has burned up his "Free Pass" as a 6th round rookie pick. He will definitely have to earn his job this season and if he starts having stretches of bad kicks in preseason, he won't be around long.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As you said in another post, he's not the only man involved in the kick. I'm not smart enough to watch his kicks and pick out every single detail, but I do know that Green Bay has had trouble for years finding a truly reliable long snapper - and that there seemed to be a number of kicks last year where the snap either seemed to be at least "an" issue, and some where it seemed to be pretty clearly a big part of the problem (as we saw at least once in the Niners game), but I can't help wondering if there's more to that than we realize.

Again, as you said, we are speculating here, but what you wrote here made me wonder about something. I can't imagine that any kicking unit out there is always 100% perfect on snap, hold, block and kick. Too many moving parts and something is bound to be a tad off each time. So short of a complete failure of one or more of those moving parts, a kicker needs to learn to "kick through it", adapt to any minor change. Don't let it distract them. Definitely part of the mental game that a vet K does or doesn't develop.

Makes me wonder if Bisaccia has them practicing with intentionally high/bad snaps, make both the holder and kicker adjust to those situations. I was a gymnast and something I was coached to do, was to always have a plan, for what to do if I fell/messed up, at each point in a routine.

Let's hope that another offseason and preseason of working together, helps to improve upon the final results of their work. Even if it does, Anders will always need to be ready for a change in holders or LS's.