Lesson for TT....?

[TomAllen]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2575530


Cheap, not the way to go.

The Patriots are $13 million under the salary cap and in danger of having their star WR, Deion Branch, sitting out for the season. Yet this is a team that prides themselves on being "fiscally responsible", but as more and more NFL players view the NFL market place, fiscally responsible is becoming just another word for "cheap".

Make no mistake about it, the NFL is a fishbowl, and players do observe what happens on other teams. Take the Pittsburgh Steelers for instance. They have lost WR Randle El and DE Roman Van Oeffen to Free Agency. . The Steelers practice this same type of fiscal conservancy. This appears to be becoming a trend in the NFL

The Packers have had their own woes when Javon Walker wanted his contract renogotiated, and was let go to Denver when he became a problem.

Who will be next for the Packers? Will it be the WR Jennings after a good year or two on his current contract? Or will it be Al Harris, who's current situation already has the left the star DB disgruntled and unhappy?

Many fans here applaud TT's "fiscal responsibility", but I would warn TT that cheap is not the way to go. Look at New England as a prime example. If they can't work it out with Branch, may be in a world of trouble this year. Next year, who's to say that this won't happen in the city of Green Bay?

 

[porky88]

Yeah New England is a great example. They only are the best franchise of this decade and have won 3 of the last 5 Super Bowls by not giving into demands to players. They've also built their team through the Drafts. They're big move was Corey Dillon. The rest of their guys are guys that they drafted 2-5 years ago.

 

[all about da packers]

To add to that, Given Brady's talents, he can make the WR group look a WHOLE LOT better than what they really are, and minimize the impact of not having Branch.

 

[TomAllen]

Who beat them last year in the playoffs?

New England is a team on the way down, especially if Branch decides to hold out. They've lost alot of players and will not recover.

This will also happen to Pittsburgh.

 

[all about da packers]

Not sure as to who beat them. However Brady's talent level is good enough to give them a chance even with aging players. Ultimately the frotunes of the Pats rest on Brady's shoulders.

 

[TOPackerFan]

Perhaps, but the Patriots still have at least three special players in Brady, Seymour and Bruschi, which should be enough to get them a few wins at least.

 

[BoydAvery]

The Patriots are still a playoff team.

 

[porky88]

Not sure as to who beat them. However Brady's talent level is good enough to give them a chance even with aging players. Ultimately the frotunes of the Pats rest on Brady's shoulders.

Which are some good shoulders to rely on. I'm sorry but Brady is the best QB in this game today in my opinion. I think they'll do just fine and make the playoffs again. They lost to Denver in the playoffs last season. Denver on offense had a team mostly built through the Draft. Defensively they did make some changes. Pittsburgh who won the Super Bowl built their team through the Draft. Ward, Parker, Roelisberger, Polumalu, Randel El, Porter, Hampton, Fancea. The list goes on. See the trend.

Hopefully Ted Thompson can scout as good as he was hyped up to be.

 

[TomAllen]

No, I don't see the "trend".

There seems to be this myth that these teams have ONLY built through the draft, but I assure you that they have added free agents to their teams as they needed them. Especially New England has, over the years.

And in the case of New England, they are on a downward slide because they've lost alot of their own players through free agency. This is happening to Pittsburgh as well. You will see this as the season progresses.

Now with the Branch problems, New England will have further trouble. No, cheap is not the way to go.

 

[digsthepack]

Wow....the Pats are in decline.....after dominating the last half decade and winning 3 Super Bowls.

I hate to point out the obvious, but the league is set up for teams on the top to go down, while concurrently allowing lowly teams the ability to get better through the acquisition of other's FAs.

It has worked very well (stripping top teams of talent to avoid dynasties) since its inception.....hell, it is how we got to the SB!! Merely the way it is....but still shocking to some who think dynasties and perpetual excellence is the norm.

 

[thetombradyhater]

Champ Bailey
INT
in the endzone

HE
COULD
GO
ALL
THE WAY
TOUCHDOWN BRONCOS!

 

[tromadz]

Wow....the Pats are in decline.....after dominating the last half decade and winning 3 Super Bowls.

I hate to point out the obvious, but the league is set up for teams on the top to go down, while concurrently allowing lowly teams the ability to get better through the acquisition of other's FAs.

It has worked very well (stripping top teams of talent to avoid dynasties) since its inception.....hell, it is how we got to the SB!! Merely the way it is....but still shocking to some who think dynasties and perpetual excellence is the norm.

:agree:

 

[TomAllen]

digs said

....while concurrently allowing lowly teams the ability to get better through the acquisition of other's FAs.

This is the part that I think TT slept through in GM 101 class...

Kind of says it all, doesn't it?

 

[tromadz]

i agree with you, winning multiple superbowls is a bad thing. good work, tomallen.

 

[digsthepack]

Tom....the only big name FAs that come to mind in NE is Dillon and perhaps Harrison. The rest were mid-tier players very similar to the type of players we have brought in.

I think a good analogy of our current team would be our early 1990s teams. A few select marquee players, but largely devoid of talent. Right now, we are stocking up on talent.

Perhaps NE is not the best example of how to do it wrong in the NFL, eh? I think unfortunately, the "fast food" mentality of society has blinded some as to the reality of building a team. It ain't done in one year, people....and believe me....we had a lot of building to do.

 

[warhawk]

I agree with Trom and Porky as well. The Pats built the core of their team thru the draft years back. By virtue of winning they have not been able to utilize the draft to their advantage as of late because they end up on the bottom of the line year in year out.

Thus, they have not been able to draft the talent to replace guys they are now missing. Because they will not bite on over priced players thru FA to replace ones that are lost is not cheap. It is smart.

N.E. has shown how to build and sustain a successful program for about as long as any franchise is going to be able to do so in today's NFL. The know how to do it and they are not going to vary from it.

Yes. I hope very much that TT has studied what the Pat's did to be able to hold their position at the top for as long as they did. It was quite an incredible run they put up.

 

[porky88]

I agree with Trom and Porky as well. The Pats built the core of their team thru the draft years back. By virtue of winning they have not been able to utilize the draft to their advantage as of late because they end up on the bottom of the line year in year out.

Thus, they have not been able to draft the talent to replace guys they are now missing. Because they will not bite on over priced players thru FA to replace ones that are lost is not cheap. It is smart.

N.E. has shown how to build and sustain a successful program for about as long as any franchise is going to be able to do so in today's NFL. The know how to do it and they are not going to vary from it.

Yes. I hope very much that TT has studied what the Pat's did to be able to hold their position at the top for as long as they did. It was quite an incredible run they put up.

Steelers did as well. Ravens did as well. Buccaneers mainly built that D through the draft. Added offense through free agency. Those GM's had more than 2 years to take bad teams and make them good as well. It shows that it's a process.

Their is a trend as well. Majority of the NFL teams build through the Draft and use free agency to put them over the top. Every team also has it's ups and downs and that's how the NFL works. It's part of the buisness. That's the exact quote I heard on Mike and Mike in the morning when they were talking about the Packers. I couldn't agree more. San Fran and Tennessee are 2 more examples.

 

[DakotaT]

I agree with Trom and Porky as well. The Pats built the core of their team thru the draft years back. By virtue of winning they have not been able to utilize the draft to their advantage as of late because they end up on the bottom of the line year in year out.

Thus, they have not been able to draft the talent to replace guys they are now missing. Because they will not bite on over priced players thru FA to replace ones that are lost is not cheap. It is smart.

N.E. has shown how to build and sustain a successful program for about as long as any franchise is going to be able to do so in today's NFL. The know how to do it and they are not going to vary from it.

Yes. I hope very much that TT has studied what the Pat's did to be able to hold their position at the top for as long as they did. It was quite an incredible run they put up.

When you say at the top, you mean winning the Lombardi trophy right? Not to be confused with divisional championships followed by embarrassing home playoff losses, am I correct, or aren't I reading your post accurately.

I think the word success has different meaning to various members of this forum.

 

[digsthepack]

The key to success in today's NFL is having your replacements on the roster when players become too expensive to keep, or when they choose to pursue other options. Frankly, we are now developing those backup players that have been ignored for the last several years. Let's be honest....who was groomed to follow when our guards left? That would be nobody!! We are now in a position of having to make up for lost ground.

 

[DakotaT]

What ever happened to Morley and Brennan Curtain?

 

[warhawk]

The key to success in today's NFL is having your replacements on the roster when players become too expensive to keep, or when they choose to pursue other options. Frankly, we are now developing those backup players that have been ignored for the last several years. Let's be honest....who was groomed to follow when our guards left? That would be nobody!! We are now in a position of having to make up for lost ground.

I mentioned in a previous post how nobody brought up the fact that we had no young back up guys on the "0" line going into '05 after YEARS of having the same group in there.

MS new in '04 that these guys were going have to be dealt with the following year. He had no plan in effect to either compensate them by having money in reserve, or, replace them with young players thru previous drafts.
All these issues fell to TT.

You cannot draft that pitifully for so many years and not have it bite you in the ***. We couldn't draft ONE good guard in 4 years to be ready to step in? Come On!

You can B & M all you want about how TT is DISMANTLING and DESTROYING this team but do you realize that by NEXT year we will be very deep in many positions and it will be very hard for even ONE rookie to crack the lineup in '07? It will take one heck of a talented rook to break into a starting position.

I fail to understand how some in here have so little patience now when we had gone that long under MS and never got to the big game.

We SHOULD HAVE won a SB in the early 2000's and I have no patience when it comes to repeating the same mistakes.

 

[tromadz]

The key to success in today's NFL is having your replacements on the roster when players become too expensive to keep, or when they choose to pursue other options. Frankly, we are now developing those backup players that have been ignored for the last several years. Let's be honest....who was groomed to follow when our guards left? That would be nobody!! We are now in a position of having to make up for lost ground.

I mentioned in a previous post how nobody brought up the fact that we had no young back up guys on the "0" line going into '05 after YEARS of having the same group in there.

MS new in '04 that these guys were going have to be dealt with the following year. He had no plan in effect to either compensate them by having money in reserve, or, replace them with young players thru previous drafts.
All these issues fell to TT.

You cannot draft that pitifully for so many years and not have it bite you in the ***. We couldn't draft ONE good guard in 4 years to be ready to step in? Come On!

You can B & M all you want about how TT is DISMANTLING and DESTROYING this team but do you realize that by NEXT year we will be very deep in many positions and it will be very hard for even ONE rookie to crack the lineup in '07? It will take one heck of a talented rook to break into a starting position.

I fail to understand how some in here have so little patience now when we had gone that long under MS and never got to the big game.

We SHOULD HAVE won a SB in the early 2000's and I have no patience when it comes to repeating the same mistakes.

That was beautiful. Beautiful!

 

[TomAllen]

Tom....the only big name FAs that come to mind in NE is Dillon and perhaps Harrison. The rest were mid-tier players very similar to the type of players we have brought in.

I think a good analogy of our current team would be our early 1990s teams. A few select marquee players, but largely devoid of talent. Right now, we are stocking up on talent.

Perhaps NE is not the best example of how to do it wrong in the NFL, eh? I think unfortunately, the "fast food" mentality of society has blinded some as to the reality of building a team. It ain't done in one year, people....and believe me....we had a lot of building to do.

digs, that's not what I meant at all.

"Fast food mentality", what the hell does that mean?

If you recall, New England had a very tough time last year and struggled mightily, and many thought that they weren't going to make the playoffs at all by midseason. It took a great effort by Tom Brady and Deion Branch to even get them to the playoffs, and then, once there, they were easily dispatched by Denver.

How do you think they are going to do this year if Branch is gone? Yes, they built a good team, but if they don't fill in their holes via free agency and start paying players like Branch their market value, etc., they are going to start to slide. As a matter of fact, they are sliding already.

Pittsburgh took many, many years to get to the SB last year, and they have lost some key players that were not replaced via free agency, or the draft. Imo, they will start their slide to the bottom now as well.

The Packers do not have depth or experience on their side (since TT has either cut it, or let it sign elsewhere), and this will show dramatically this year. I think certain people here have been seduced by the New England myth that they did it all through the draft because they certainly have not done so. Their "mid-level" free agents were signed and "kept", and they contributed greatly to the team. But now, since they don't have the same team, they have to change their philosophy if they want a guy like Branch, who will help them out this year.

This is vastly different from what TT is doing. Signing players and then cutting them without replacements in place. Where is the depth that you're talking about? Do we have to wait 5-10 years before it materializes? If it materializes at all?

Meanwhile guys like Walker and Al Harris(?), and who else, (Jennings possibly?) will start looking for greener pastures. You say that the Packers had alot of building to do, but they certainly didn't have as much building to do in '05 as they seem to have now.

Remember this, it is extremely hard, if not impossible to try and build a team completely through the draft, and this is exactly what TT seems to have in mind.

It's going to be a loooong season.

 

[Packnic]

The key to success in today's NFL is having your replacements on the roster when players become too expensive to keep, or when they choose to pursue other options. Frankly, we are now developing those backup players that have been ignored for the last several years. Let's be honest....who was groomed to follow when our guards left? That would be nobody!! We are now in a position of having to make up for lost ground.

I mentioned in a previous post how nobody brought up the fact that we had no young back up guys on the "0" line going into '05 after YEARS of having the same group in there.

MS new in '04 that these guys were going have to be dealt with the following year. He had no plan in effect to either compensate them by having money in reserve, or, replace them with young players thru previous drafts.
All these issues fell to TT.

You cannot draft that pitifully for so many years and not have it bite you in the ***. We couldn't draft ONE good guard in 4 years to be ready to step in? Come On!

You can B & M all you want about how TT is DISMANTLING and DESTROYING this team but do you realize that by NEXT year we will be very deep in many positions and it will be very hard for even ONE rookie to crack the lineup in '07? It will take one heck of a talented rook to break into a starting position.

I fail to understand how some in here have so little patience now when we had gone that long under MS and never got to the big game.

We SHOULD HAVE won a SB in the early 2000's and I have no patience when it comes to repeating the same mistakes.

POST OF THE FREAKING MONTH!!!

The patriots will be in the playoffs again this year, with or without Deion Branch.

TomAllen... you might wanna sit the next few weeks out. I do believe that you have humongous ********* to try and argue that the way the patriots and steelers run their franchises is the wrong way. either gutsy or your just down right mentally challenged.

TT is running the team exactly like he should be.... wether or not he is making the right choices within his system has yet to be seen. but the system itself is exactly how you have to do it, and i trust that hes gonna have us in the elite within the next couple of years. Theres no faster or better way to get there.

 

[DePack]

I agree with Trom and Porky as well. The Pats built the core of their team thru the draft years back. By virtue of winning they have not been able to utilize the draft to their advantage as of late because they end up on the bottom of the line year in year out.

Thus, they have not been able to draft the talent to replace guys they are now missing. Because they will not bite on over priced players thru FA to replace ones that are lost is not cheap. It is smart.

N.E. has shown how to build and sustain a successful program for about as long as any franchise is going to be able to do so in today's NFL. The know how to do it and they are not going to vary from it.

Yes. I hope very much that TT has studied what the Pat's did to be able to hold their position at the top for as long as they did. It was quite an incredible run they put up.

When you say at the top, you mean winning the Lombardi trophy right? Not to be confused with divisional championships followed by embarrassing home playoff losses, am I correct, or aren't I reading your post accurately.

I think the word success has different meaning to various members of this forum.

Or do you mean being 4-12 and one of the laughing stocks of the league? Some people on this forum believe finishing 12-4 and losing in the playoffs is a better season than 4-12. Imagine those nuttballs!!! :roll:

Nice bait!!!!