Lazard Situation...

Mondio

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Yes. I think having Lewis almost unintentionally gave us a false sense of security in covering up OL blocking Deficiencies. Instead of being able to work as an in-line TE, he became a Pseudo OT dedicated safety net.
That also similarly happened to Tonyan the other year and his Receiving capacity diminished rapidly. Tonyan mentioned that when being interviewed by Pat McAfee in his mobile trailer.

The Lewis bandaid has been ripped off and it’s time to address (or dress) the Wound with some fresh bandages
been saying that for 3 years now. He's been an extra OT almost exclusively and he's been needed, badly, for that role. While everyone was writing about GB's offensive line just being able to replace people with all those injuries the past couple seasons, it's been basically because we have a TE that plays OT better than a lot of start OT's in the league helping out all the time. It helped out Oline, but it limited our offense.

Tonyan might have been kept in more too, but I don't know if it was appreciably more than before. Can't say I noticed. What i did notice was he seemed to go down easier than before and seemed slower after injury than before and he was never a blazer. Another year removed from injury he might see some speed come back, but he's never been a YAC guy if someone gets a hand on him. WHich was always so odd to me because it's one thing I noticed from his first year here, he was pretty strong to the ball, had the attitude in catching I like to see from TE's. But it never seemed to translate to running after the catch.
 

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Pokerbrat2000

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Amen. While blocking is an important facet, The problem with it is I feel like we get complacent with our TE group and they turn into a fixed role in that capacity. Tonyan said that’s what happened to him a couple seasons ago in an answer to why his receiving production dropped significantly.
Agree and let's face it, for a TE or WR to block on first and second down running plays and then being asked to run a route on 3rd down, they've got to be a bit winded. Lazard was a very good blocker, but you have to wonder how much juice he had to run routes, especially during a long drive.
 

lambeaulambo

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Don't remember him making many catches down the seam...i remember him being more of a lumberer than a seam splitter

Finley was a seam splitter thats what both Musgrave and Kraft could be like
Do not jinx Musgrave or Kraft!! Paddlehands Jermike rekindled!!
 

milani

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Don't remember him making many catches down the seam...i remember him being more of a lumberer than a seam splitter

Finley was a seam splitter thats what both Musgrave and Kraft could be like
Yes. Finley could stretch it. He was a terrific athlete whose career was ended tragically by a vile and dirty hit. The Packers ran a common play down the seam on 1st or 2nd down. The key was the play fake to Ahman Green or another back. The Packers ran the ball with success and Franks was a key to that. Defenses had to focus on that so it was difficult to play him strictly as a receiver. Finley had more speed obviously whereas Franks was a much better blocker. Both had good hands.
 
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As I have mentioned before Tonyan was actually used as a blocker on a higher percentage of his offensive snaps in 2020 (37.7%) when he put up impressive numbers as a receiver compared to '21 (33.0%) and last season (34.0%).
 

Krabs

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tynimiller

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I don't see Tonyan having a good year. It wouldn't shock me if he got cut.

Cole Kmet is essentially the only TE on their roster that in any way shape or form should beat out Tonyan. Ryan Griffin is 32 and not that dynamic...and Chase Allen is a PS dude. That's it, their TE room is weaker arguably than GB's was last year. Unless they sign someone Tonyan is absolutely safe as is Kmet and Griffin...those three will be their three.
 

Krabs

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Cole Kmet is essentially the only TE on their roster that in any way shape or form should beat out Tonyan. Ryan Griffin is 32 and not that dynamic...and Chase Allen is a PS dude. That's it, their TE room is weaker arguably than GB's was last year. Unless they sign someone Tonyan is absolutely safe as is Kmet and Griffin...those three will be their three.
Interesting, that I did not know. That is a weak TE group. That might be the worst in the league.
 
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Interesting, that I did not know. That is a weak TE group. That might be the worst in the league.

As long as Musgrave and Kraft don't have an immediate impact the Packers group is even worse.
 

Krabs

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As long as Musgrave and Kraft don't have an immediate impact the Packers group is even worse.
I fully expect them to play significant roles their rookie year and be better than the Bears TE group. As with anything, time will tell.
 

Mondio

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I fully expect them to play significant roles their rookie year and be better than the Bears TE group. As with anything, time will tell.
They definitely have the potential, and we need them to use it right out of the gates, because besides them our TE's are pretty much nonexistent.
 
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Finley is the best Packers Te in the last 20 plus years easy. When he got injured he was playing like one of the best in the league
It’s actually true. Finley was on pace to have an enormous season when he injured.
That said. Both Musgrave and Kraft are bigger and faster. Both have a good opportunity to be better than peak Finley, but Brian doubling down at TE gave us twice the chances of peak Finley.

I like Tonyan, but he was a 1 year wonder and sorta overachieved imo. Don’t get me wrong he was great for where we got him. That injury set him back pretty good. These 2 TE’s we drafted both have way more upside than Peak Tonyan. It wouldn’t surprise me to see 1 of our TE’s past up Tonyans best production inside a few years.
 
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I fully expect them to play significant roles their rookie year and be better than the Bears TE group. As with anything, time will tell.

Whoa, I thought that rookie tight ends hardly have an impact in their first season in the league. I guess everything changes once the Packers select those players.

I would be surprised if either Musgrave or Kraft would come anywhere close to matching Kmet's numbers over the past two seasons in 2023. It's even probable Tonyan puts up better numbers than either of them.

dude couldnt catch a cold.

While Finley had some issues with drops that's a bogus statement to make. At the time he suffered a career ending injury
 

Krabs

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Whoa, I thought that rookie tight ends hardly have an impact in their first season in the league. I guess everything changes once the Packers select those players.

I would be surprised if either Musgrave or Kraft would come anywhere close to matching Kmet's numbers over the past two seasons in 2023. It's even probable Tonyan puts up better numbers than either of them.
You do speak the truth about TE's. Usually takes a season or two to develop. Obviously, it is an unknown. I still say that I would rather have our TE group than the Bears. I'm definitely not high on Tonyan. Personal preference I guess. I just don't think he is any good. Don't sleep on Deguara either. This may be his break out season. He's had three seasons to develop and he now... Yeah, I can't even type that and believe it either.
 
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tynimiller

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Whoa, I thought that rookie tight ends hardly have an impact in their first season in the league. I guess everything changes once the Packers select those players.

I would be surprised if either Musgrave or Kraft would come anywhere close to matching Kmet's numbers over the past two seasons in 2023. It's even probable Tonyan puts up better numbers than either of them.



While Finley had some issues with drops that's a bogus statement to make. At the time he suffered a career ending injury

I think typically across the board the majority of TEs drafted, even the high ones are not put in a scenario where they're being asked to carrying a big chunk of the snaps and possibly the starting in line jobs. Kraft or Musgrave is going to have to emerge as the main inline tight end here unless we sign someone...that alone is going to raise their production by sheer presence of snaps. Won't necessarily mean they're better than some other recent young TEs that didn't produce say the same stat line.

Why wouldn't Tonyan put up more than at least one of them? He is the surefire TE2 in Chicago....limited experienced pass catchers in their WR room and Tonyan has solid hands, above average TE IQ and experience making things happen in the NFL. Not too mention Tonyan is arguably their #4 receiving option if not 3b..Mooney and Moore are the only two for sure pass catchers ahead of him and he may be on par with Kmet at this point in Coles' young career.

Musgrave and Kraft are for sure going to be behind Watson and Doubs...most likely Reed and at first perhaps Deguara as well out of the TE and WRs.
 
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I think typically across the board the majority of TEs drafted, even the high ones are not put in a scenario where they're being asked to carrying a big chunk of the snaps and possibly the starting in line jobs. Kraft or Musgrave is going to have to emerge as the main inline tight end here unless we sign someone...that alone is going to raise their production by sheer presence of snaps. Won't necessarily mean they're better than some other recent young TEs that didn't produce say the same stat line.

Why wouldn't Tonyan put up more than at least one of them? He is the surefire TE2 in Chicago....limited experienced pass catchers in their WR room and Tonyan has solid hands, above average TE IQ and experience making things happen in the NFL. Not too mention Tonyan is arguably their #4 receiving option if not 3b..Mooney and Moore are the only two for sure pass catchers ahead of him and he may be on par with Kmet at this point in Coles' young career.

Musgrave and Kraft are for sure going to be behind Watson and Doubs...most likely Reed and at first perhaps Deguara as well out of the TE and WRs.
That’s a good point on our TE’s being asked to do more and sooner. Both takes can be true. Typically a TE takes about his 3rd season to flourish. Yet it’s pretty rare we draft at TE and he’s a presumed Starter in a Rookie season.
Also we rarely double up at TE and that doubles our probability of at least 1 rising up the production charts quicker.
 

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My bad, I guess I just should have originally replied that I agreed with that scenario.
 

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