Jace Sternberger

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That's pretty much the point. Just because someone gets paid to do a job doesn't mean they do it well and we should defer to their judgement.
 

Heyjoe4

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That's pretty much the point. Just because someone gets paid to do a job doesn't mean they do it well and we should defer to their judgement.
I agree, it just can take time to realize that the superstar GM you thought you were getting turns out to be, at best, average. (Still no excuse for Millen's long tenure.)

Until then, I defer to the decisions made by people like Gluten and MLF just because they know more (or should) about what's going on in their organizations. Some would look at last year's first round pick and see it as worthy of firing the GM. And the pick did stink and i've never heard a satisfactory explanation from Gluten as to why he went that way.

But so far, his decisions have been mostly positive for the team, so onward.

This year's draft is a big, big deal though, moreso than prior year's. GB is about 2, maybe 3 guys away from a SB, and if Gluten can't find any FAs, then the draft it is - or players from the last two drafts step up big.

Starting in 2022, it's gonna be very hard to field a team as talented as this one. 2021 feels like now, or never (or ten years).
 

captainWIMM

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Some would look at last year's first round pick and see it as worthy of firing the GM.

It would definitely a huge overreaction to advocate for Gutekunst to be fired for the selection of Love in last year's draft.

But ultimately the way the move works out might end up being the single most important one defining his tenure as general manager down the road.

This year's draft is a big, big deal though, moreso than prior year's. GB is about 2, maybe 3 guys away from a SB, and if Gluten can't find any FAs, then the draft it is - or players from the last two drafts step up big.

That was true last year as well but Gutekunst didn't use the draft to improve the roster for the 2020 season for whatever reason.
 

PikeBadger

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Actually you always defer to staff and management no matter what.

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Lol, we’ve been over this before. Always means 100%. Words have meanings. You’re just grinding your axe on me again.

Management and staff actually are accountable for the success or failure of this team. You’re just another raving lunatic fan with a loose keyboard.
 

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I agree, it just can take time to realize that the superstar GM you thought you were getting turns out to be, at best, average. (Still no excuse for Millen's long tenure.)

Until then, I defer to the decisions made by people like Gluten and MLF just because they know more (or should) about what's going on in their organizations. Some would look at last year's first round pick and see it as worthy of firing the GM. And the pick did stink and i've never heard a satisfactory explanation from Gluten as to why he went that way.

But so far, his decisions have been mostly positive for the team, so onward.

This year's draft is a big, big deal though, moreso than prior year's. GB is about 2, maybe 3 guys away from a SB, and if Gluten can't find any FAs, then the draft it is - or players from the last two drafts step up big.

Starting in 2022, it's gonna be very hard to field a team as talented as this one. 2021 feels like now, or never (or ten years).

Oh, I wasn't specifically aiming at Gute, just the concept that management and staff (in general) necessarily make better decisions than 'we' would.
 

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Lol, we’ve been over this before. Always means 100%. Words have meanings. You’re just grinding your axe on me again.

Management and staff actually are accountable for the success or failure of this team. You’re just another raving lunatic fan with a loose keyboard.

Wordsmithing, I'd say that management and staff are responsible for performance, in that their actions determine it. I'd hesitate to say they're accountable, as in being made to answer for it.
 

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Their livelihoods depend on it, i'd say they're accountable. are fans? Just a couple months ago every fan of every team needing a QB was like, give me Watson for whatever it takes. how many will be held accountable for that?
 

Heyjoe4

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It would definitely a huge overreaction to advocate for Gutekunst to be fired for the selection of Love in last year's draft.

But ultimately the way the move works out might end up being the single most important one defining his tenure as general manager down the road.



That was true last year as well but Gutekunst didn't use the draft to improve the roster for the 2020 season for whatever reason.
Hopefully Gluten's draft methodology changes this year. Just my opinion, but this team isn't that far from another trip to the SB. I guess I'd prioritize DL, but it's a weak draft at that position. Or move up and grab one of the top ILB players. Either move will strengthen the defense, get more pressure on the QB, and make life easier on the secondary. GB doesn't have a great track record at drafting CBs, with the exception of Alexander. Well, we'll see on Thursday.

And agreed about Gluten. Say what you want about TT, he'll always be remembered as the guy who drafted Rodgers. I didn't like the pick last year, but hope he was right about Love.
 

Pkrjones

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Why does GB need to use-up draft capital to move up in the draft? Many (most) of us can't even agree on the top 3 "needs" of the team. In no particular order of need Gute could draft any of the following positions and not be criticized too harshly by us: DL, CB, WR, OL, ILB, OLB or even S. Somebody VERY, VERY good will fall to #29...looking forward to finding out.
 

PikeBadger

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It will as usual depend on how “their” board looks as to who they will choose, or trade the pick either up or down to get best value. Next week will be fun no matter what happens.
 

Heyjoe4

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Why does GB need to use-up draft capital to move up in the draft? Many (most) of us can't even agree on the top 3 "needs" of the team. In no particular order of need Gute could draft any of the following positions and not be criticized too harshly by us: DL, CB, WR, OL, ILB, OLB or even S. Somebody VERY, VERY good will fall to #29...looking forward to finding out.
That's a good point. I expect any first round pick to be starting their first year. As you note, GB has a number of needs. Out of those position groups, pick the BPA on the GB board and move on. I just don't like trading picks. GB has 10 this year, and the law of averages probably says there will be a few winners in there.
 

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“That's a good point. I expect any first round pick to be starting their first year.”

I don’t think the #1 has to “start” but they need to contribute be it as rotation on the DL, depth on the OL, one of the top 5 WRs, a situational DB. Same goes for the second rounder imo. If we trade some later picks to move up to get guys that check this box, I’d say given where the franchise is today, they should do it.
 

thequick12

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Their livelihoods depend on it, i'd say they're accountable. are fans? Just a couple months ago every fan of every team needing a QB was like, give me Watson for whatever it takes. how many will be held accountable for that?

Innocent until proven guilty not guilty until proven innocent...at least that's the way it's supposed to be.

If he did what he's accused of then obviously I've got no love for him but having personally experienced the myth of justice. We gotta get back to innocent until proven guilty.

For a lawyer to say I can get this judge removed and I can do the same to the next one but no matter how many times I do it none of them are going to side against the police...so even though they clearly broke the rules and violated your rights you're chance at justice is 0

Not the way it's supposed to work but it's the way it does work, unless you have enough money to pay
 
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captainWIMM

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Their livelihoods depend on it, i'd say they're accountable. are fans? Just a couple months ago every fan of every team needing a QB was like, give me Watson for whatever it takes. how many will be held accountable for that?

To be fair, I'm quite sure a lot of teams called the Texans about trading for Watson before those stories broke as well.

In no particular order of need Gute could draft any of the following positions and not be criticized too harshly by us: DL, CB, WR, OL, ILB, OLB or even S.

I don't feel any need for the Packers to use their first rounder on a safety.
 

thisisnate

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I don't know what this thread is about anymore, but on Sternberger, I don't really have an issue with his production to-date. That said, this needs to be a 400-500 yard year for him. If he puts up 100 or 200 or w/e, then nah, I'll be ready to call him bad.
 

Mondio

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To be fair, I'm quite sure a lot of teams called the Texans about trading for Watson before those stories broke as well.

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I'm sure they did, that wasn't the point. The points being, sometimes good decisions end poorly, FO's are hired and fired based on their results and held accountable. Fans just move on to their next wrong prognostication without another thought.
 

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Their livelihoods depend on it, i'd say they're accountable. are fans? Just a couple months ago every fan of every team needing a QB was like, give me Watson for whatever it takes. how many will be held accountable for that?

My point was that, if their livelihood depends on it, why do so many nag on for so long. If, like real jobs, they were canned then it was obvious they're underperforming, I've got no problem.
 

Heyjoe4

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“That's a good point. I expect any first round pick to be starting their first year.”

I don’t think the #1 has to “start” but they need to contribute be it as rotation on the DL, depth on the OL, one of the top 5 WRs, a situational DB. Same goes for the second rounder imo. If we trade some later picks to move up to get guys that check this box, I’d say given where the franchise is today, they should do it.
Good point, and picking at #29 - well it starts to get dicey past 15 or 20. If they can get two guys in rds 1 and 2 who can do what you suggest, I'd be happy.
 

Mondio

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My point was that, if their livelihood depends on it, why do so many nag on for so long. If, like real jobs, they were canned then it was obvious they're underperforming, I've got no problem.
because fans think every poor outcome should result in a firing. Nobody is 100%, neither are they. Sometimes people make mistakes and they don't usually get to where they are by doing a poor job. yet one good decision with a poor outcome can set a franchise back. Sometimes the line between decisions and outcomes isn't linear or obvious though fans think they are.
 

PikeBadger

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I don't know what this thread is about anymore, but on Sternberger, I don't really have an issue with his production to-date. That said, this needs to be a 400-500 yard year for him. If he puts up 100 or 200 or w/e, then nah, I'll be ready to call him bad.
Who is he going to take that many yards from? It’s not like this offense left a bunch of yards left ungained last year. IMO, we need to see Sternberger get bigger, stronger and more consistent. General improvement in his game.
 

thisisnate

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Who is he going to take that many yards from? It’s not like this offense left a bunch of yards left ungained last year. IMO, we need to see Sternberger get bigger, stronger and more consistent. General improvement in his game.

We're not bound to X number of yards per year, but I understand your meaning. The idea with any of these guys is that they'll show enough to see more snaps and produce more. I have no reason to suspect we'll get much in the way of receiving yardage out of Deguara or Lewis. Tonyan is our best guy and he's okay, not great. I'd hope Jace could add a few hundred yards of production without "taking yards away from" anyone else, but injuries happen, Tonyan is just decent and could be out-competed, etc. The hope is just generally to get better production out of the position, I don't care how that happens, but Jace taking a step above other guys is one of the more likely ways to do that with what's currently on the roster.
 

tynimiller

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Sorry Tonyan was great last year. Is he going to be consistently great, anyone's best guess. But his 2020 campaign was great, and is the type of season GB and the MLF system can only hope is a consistent thing out of your TE 1
 

thisisnate

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Sorry Tonyan was great last year. Is he going to be consistently great, anyone's best guess. But his 2020 campaign was great, and is the type of season GB and the MLF system can only hope is a consistent thing out of your TE 1

I think we have very different thresholds for what constitutes a "great" season, but "great" is just a word open to subjectivity. I think ignoring his first two years and just looking at last year, he had a season good enough to put him in the lower end of the top 10 TEs in the league just over last year. If 8 or 9 guys are having "great" seasons, the word is kind of losing its meaning.
 

tynimiller

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I think we have very different thresholds for what constitutes a "great" season, but "great" is just a word open to subjectivity. I think ignoring his first two years and just looking at last year, he had a season good enough to put him in the lower end of the top 10 TEs in the league just over last year. If 8 or 9 guys are having "great" seasons, the word is kind of losing its meaning.

I never said I'd argue he is a great TE. His 2020 was however. Lot of what he is will depend on his next two to three years.
 

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