Jace Sternberger

thisisnate

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I never said I'd argue he is a great TE. His 2020 was however. Lot of what he is will depend on his next two to three years.

Well, agree to disagree. I think he scored a bunch of TDs and did nothing else noteworthy. My standard for "great" is different. But it's besides the point I was trying to make RE: Jace and has derailed the conversation again in a thread that's already veered way off topics and all over the place.
 

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because fans think every poor outcome should result in a firing. Nobody is 100%, neither are they. Sometimes people make mistakes and they don't usually get to where they are by doing a poor job. yet one good decision with a poor outcome can set a franchise back. Sometimes the line between decisions and outcomes isn't linear or obvious though fans think they are.

OK, one last try. Never said anyone is or should be expected to be 100%. Never said that every poor outcome should result in a firing. Didn't address people getting where they are, but, as long as you bring it up, remember the Peter Principle. What I DID say is that some people (like Millen) served for way too long after clearly demonstrating a lack of talent at that they do (or suffer an incredible run of bad luck?). That's it - over and out.
 

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Wordsmithing, I'd say that management and staff are responsible for performance, in that their actions determine it. I'd hesitate to say they're accountable, as in being made to answer for it.

This is where I hopped in, it appeared you were saying FO's and management don't seem to be held accountable or have to answer for their decisions. I disagreed.
 

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Well, agree to disagree. I think he scored a bunch of TDs and did nothing else noteworthy. My standard for "great" is different. But it's besides the point I was trying to make RE: Jace and has derailed the conversation again in a thread that's already veered way off topics and all over the place.

You get a TE to produce 50 receptions, over 500 yards and sniff even 6 TDs with arguably the best WR in the game on the roster, a RB that could start on all but save like 7 or 8 teams while also having the #1 YPC WR threat in the NFL ....you take that every single time. I understand folks see numbers like Kelce in gross total yards, but look at their production per target or reception. Tonyan delivered the same YPC, more TD/Rec and had a much higher catch % than Kelce.

2020 was a great year out of Tonyan, especially given the production per chances given. Insane level really.
 

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Sorry Tonyan was great last year. Is he going to be consistently great, anyone's best guess. But his 2020 campaign was great, and is the type of season GB and the MLF system can only hope is a consistent thing out of your TE 1
Hey Ty how many TDs did he have? I thought it was 11. I would have been happy with 5. That many TDs isn't a coincidence. Maybe Tonyan isn't the fastest TE in the NFL, but knowing how to get open (route running) and catching the ball (not a given with Packer receivers not named Adams) are great skills.
 

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I think we have very different thresholds for what constitutes a "great" season, but "great" is just a word open to subjectivity. I think ignoring his first two years and just looking at last year, he had a season good enough to put him in the lower end of the top 10 TEs in the league just over last year. If 8 or 9 guys are having "great" seasons, the word is kind of losing its meaning.
Yeah it's just a word, semantics. I was very happy with the year he had, and it didn't appear to be a fluke. Great, good, very good, whatever. I think he had around 10 TDs, and that's not just due to chance, poor coverage, etc. It might make it harder to repeat because now he's got some notoriety. But I'm all for anyone who can catch the bay and just maybe take some attention off Adams. This will be a huge year for him, personally and for the team.
 

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Hey Ty how many TDs did he have? I thought it was 11. I would have been happy with 5. That many TDs isn't a coincidence. Maybe Tonyan isn't the fastest TE in the NFL, but knowing how to get open (route running) and catching the ball (not a given with Packer receivers not named Adams) are great skills.

11 on barely over 50 receptions. Took Kelce nearly 3 times as many targets to put that many points on the board.

Not saying he is better than Kelce, but will say in 2020 the dude per opportunity produced at a higher rate like I outlined above.
 

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11 on barely over 50 receptions. Took Kelce nearly 3 times as many targets to put that many points on the board.

Not saying he is better than Kelce, but will say in 2020 the dude per opportunity produced at a higher rate like I outlined above.
Makes the number even more amazing. Not that I'm ungrateful, but I would like to see a TE, and why not Tonyan, play better between the 20s. These guys routinely find seams and with a QB like Rodgers, that's money. Don't get me wrong, that's not a complaint. Tonyan played a big part in the success of the team last year.
 

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I'm sure they did, that wasn't the point. The points being, sometimes good decisions end poorly, FO's are hired and fired based on their results and held accountable. Fans just move on to their next wrong prognostication without another thought.

I wouldn't mind being held accountable for my decisions while being paid a boatload of money.

You get a TE to produce 50 receptions, over 500 yards and sniff even 6 TDs with arguably the best WR in the game on the roster, a RB that could start on all but save like 7 or 8 teams while also having the #1 YPC WR threat in the NFL ....you take that every single time. I understand folks see numbers like Kelce in gross total yards, but look at their production per target or reception. Tonyan delivered the same YPC, more TD/Rec and had a much higher catch % than Kelce.

2020 was a great year out of Tonyan, especially given the production per chances given. Insane level really.

Tonyan had a good season, catching a ton of touchdown passes. But I don't consider his 2020 campaign to be great either.
 

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Me neither, nope not great. It was ultra great. He has no chance of repeating it. The good news there is he won't be too expensive to resign.
 

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I wouldn't mind being held accountable for my decisions while being paid a boatload of money.



Tonyan had a good season, catching a ton of touchdown passes. But I don't consider his 2020 campaign to be great either.
I hereby nominate you to be GM of the Minnesota Vikings for that boatload of money. That would greatly ease my mind in many ways.

was Tonyan’s 2020 season production a whole lot better than you were expecting last August?
 

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In the never-ending semantic battle, it looks like his season was great compared to expectations, maybe not so great in the grand scheme of things.
 

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In the never-ending semantic battle, it looks like his season was great compared to expectations, maybe not so great in the grand scheme of things.[/QUOTE
I hereby nominate you to be GM of the Minnesota Vikings for that boatload of money. That would greatly ease my mind in many ways.

was Tonyan’s 2020 season production a whole lot better than you were expecting last August?
 

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In the never-ending semantic battle, it looks like his season was great compared to expectations, maybe not so great in the grand scheme of things.
How many TE’s were better last year? How many of those had a 1st team all pro receiver as a teammate?
There is a finite number of touches, yards and TD’s on any team in any year.
Someone please tell me what Tonyan failed to do last year. He was a very useful tool in our offensive arsenal IMO.
 

tynimiller

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Someone please tell me what Tonyan failed to do last year. He was a very useful tool in our offensive arsenal IMO.

He simply didn't put up enough rushing yards. The dude is limited to only what a "move" or receiving TE in the MLF system needs. :D
 
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I was so far off Sternberger thread... I was so disgusted with myself for committing “Hara-Kiri thread deviation” that I just considered falling on my own sword out of respect to y’all. I deleted my very own post!

what I’d really like to say is... I 2nd thisisnate :tup:
 
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How many TE’s were better last year? How many of those had a 1st team all pro receiver as a teammate?
There is a finite number of touches, yards and TD’s on any team in any year.
Someone please tell me what Tonyan failed to do last year. He was a very useful tool in our offensive arsenal IMO.

I think the main issue is that there is a difference between being a good TE and a great TE. Sure, it's mainly semantics, but Tonyan's season was, outside of TDs, a slightly above average season for an NFL TE. Regarding his touchdowns, those are pretty much the most variable stat for receivers (outside of very few players) and I don't think he's going to be a guy who consistently gets that many TDs (plus, everyone gets more TDs when your QB leads the NFL in touchdowns).

I like Tonyan, he's good, but there is much room for improvement and I think those writing off Sternberger are ignoring the extensive history of his long tight ends take to develop and also ignoring the weirdness of the NFL off-season last year.
 

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Gutekunst spending last year's first rounder on a different position might have been the difference needed to beat the Bucs in the NFCCG though.


It also might end up being the difference between future team mediocrity for 15 years after Rodgers leaves or not. Much like the Rodgers pick in 2005, I'm going to see what happens, before lambasting it over and over.
 

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I hereby nominate you to be GM of the Minnesota Vikings for that boatload of money. That would greatly ease my mind in many ways.

was Tonyan’s 2020 season production a whole lot better than you were expecting last August?
I second the nomination. Great, good, very good, well above expectations....... Who cares? He caught 11 TDs. I'm glad he's on our team. His mother probably thinks he's great. To your last point, I'm guessing no one predicted the kind of season Tonyan would have last August.
This on roster bubble player battles:

"Tight end: None. With coach Matt LaFleur’s desire to run the football, veteran Marcedes Lewis figures to make the roster to fill the role of blocker.

“I’m going to brag on him a little bit,” Rodgers said. “He’s really transformed his body, I think. He looks leaner, stronger and he’s running well. I really give him a lot of credit for an older guy to come back in the shape he did. He put a hell of a lot of work in. He’s going to be an important part of our squad and our locker room with his leadership.”

https://mavensports.io/packers/news...s-in-preseason-finale--5lhHjFF9Uao6kstwEKTaw/

I think many Packers fans are going to be shocked by the number of rushing attempts we will see from Matt LaFleur's offense. Mercedes Lewis is the top blocking TE in the NFL, and McCarthy didn't even use him last season. Just by chance, Lewis is still with the Packers, and he will show his worth this season. Mark that one down. Mercedes Lewis is a lock for the 53 in 2019.

With that increase in rushing attempts, success will follow. We have another blocker who is a lock for this 53 in FB Danny Vitale. Our OL has had less run blocking reps than nearly the entire NFL over the last 5-10 seasons. It might take a while, 4-5 games before they become proficient, but once they do, look out.

Rodgers is going to have a field day playing against opposing front 7s who must now play honest...

My guess is we will have our RBs splitting 30-40 rushing attempts per game in 2019. Easy. That will be excluding any rushes by AR.

Think back to when Mike Holmgren used to give Dorsey Levens and Edgar Bennett the rock to close games out 1994-1998. Bennett had 15 att/gm '94-96, Levens had 15 att/gm '95-98. Yeah, its gonna be like that, and more. LaFleur will rush more. Subsequently, the passing game is gonna open up like crazy.

As for Jace Sternberger, I was really surprised at how big the dude is. I think in time he will be a great part of this Packers offense. While he may not contribute much on O in terms of raw numbers as a rookie, I can still see him possibly making some significant contributions this season, as a scoring threat in the red zone, and as a blocker in space on running plays. His in-line blocking will only improve learning from a guy like Mercedes Lewis. What a great opportunity for Sternberger.
Eventually Lewis will retire. If Sternberger can become THAT blocking TE, all the better. He has to carve out a role for himself this season.

As for rushing attempts, I expect they'll be lower earlier in the season - it depends on what the OL looks like. Once Bakh is back, and depending on who they add in the draft, then I'd expect 30 to 35 rushing attempts per game. That's a helluva lot better than under MM, who didn't incorporate rushing into his game plan, or at best, did it haphazardly.
 

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Whenever someone says outside of touchdowns I automatically hope we have the best kicker in the history of the league. Ain't no sunshine when he's gone .... anytime he goes away ( The theme at Cris Carters retirement party.)
 

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How many TE’s were better last year? How many of those had a 1st team all pro receiver as a teammate?
There is a finite number of touches, yards and TD’s on any team in any year.
Someone please tell me what Tonyan failed to do last year. He was a very useful tool in our offensive arsenal IMO.

Verbiage/semantics again. Who decides if one TE is better than another? Catches and yards would seem to be a pretty good indicator, in which case 12 others were better. I figure (depending upon which all pro teams one chooses) there are only a handful of teams with a 1st team all pro WR teammate - however, Tonyan had the second most receptions on the team, so, after Adams, the others didn't eat into his oppotunities. Do we need to look at teams with several really good (definition?) WR taking opportunities from their TE? Finally, as the ultimate confirmation of the wording problem, you describe him as "a very useful tool", which I have to figure that a neutral observer would classify as less than "great".
 

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Verbiage/semantics again. Who decides if one TE is better than another? Catches and yards would seem to be a pretty good indicator, in which case 12 others were better. I figure (depending upon which all pro teams one chooses) there are only a handful of teams with a 1st team all pro WR teammate - however, Tonyan had the second most receptions on the team, so, after Adams, the others didn't eat into his oppotunities. Do we need to look at teams with several really good (definition?) WR taking opportunities from their TE? Finally, as the ultimate confirmation of the wording problem, you describe him as "a very useful tool", which I have to figure that a neutral observer would classify as less than "great".

Agree.

MVS and any WR not named Adams are a bit like Tonyan, more a product of the system, rather a product that improves on or increases the productivity of the system. Aside from the OL, only Rodgers, Adams and Jones are the 3 players on offense that I think "play great, no matter what the system is" and they improve it. That isn't to say that the offensive system MLF runs doesn't benefit any of those 3 either. Also, not trying to take away from the other skilled position players by saying you can plug and play any WR or TE into MLF's offense and they will thrive, but it would be interesting to see how someone like Tonyan or MVS would have fared in the MM offense.
 

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It would definitely a huge overreaction to advocate for Gutekunst to be fired for the selection of Love in last year's draft.

But ultimately the way the move works out might end up being the single most important one defining his tenure as general manager down the road.



That was true last year as well but Gutekunst didn't use the draft to improve the roster for the 2020 season for whatever reason.
Too bad we can't magically go back and see what GB would have accomplished had Gluten not traded up to pick a #3 backup QB in the first round. We can never know, but coming up just two or three plays short of beating TB in the NFCCG, it's something to think about - especially as we look forward to the draft starting tomorrow.

And as for the comments of some who say Love may be the future, this game, like all sports, is about winning championships now. A chance was missed last year, and they don't come around often.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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And as for the comments of some who say Love may be the future, this game, like all sports, is about winning championships now. A chance was missed last year, and they don't come around often.

So just curious, how did you feel about the Rodgers pick in 2005? Davante Adams in 2014?

I get all this buzz about "we were only a few plays short of the Superbowl and Love didn't contribute". However, if all teams were doing each year was building for the "Right now", you wouldn't have a team like the Patriots with the long run of success they had.

Also, "that chance" of winning championships has been around for several years for the Packers, so not sure why or how fans can even begin to complain, as well as imply that the window just closed due to the Love selection.
 

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