1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

It's Good to be King

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by HardRightEdge, May 11, 2019.

  1. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    20
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    This is a good read for those who didn't see Dany's shift coming.

    https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/05...aenerys-targaryen-has-always-been-a-mad-queen

    Part of the problem with those who aren't enjoying the season is their expectations for it - the creative team didn't do themselves favours with waiting 500+ days to come out with this season, but if you just watch it all unfold it is better than expecting so and so to fight so and so just because they should. Ya, Jon Snow and the Night King would have been a good fight, but he was held back by a Dragon and the army of the dead. I literally jumped out of my seat when Arya saved the day. When Dany landed on Westeros everyone expected she would lay siege to Kings Landing, when she finally did people are like WTF. Gimme a break. That she did so on extreme tilt is explained with the article above.

    Defying expectations has been a theme of the show for many seasons. If it wasn't, we'd have way more Starks.
     
  2. gatorpack

    gatorpack Cheesehead

    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    68
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Location:
    Florida
    Packers and Game of thrones on the same site! The only thing missing is fishing and then it can't get any better.
     
  3. Do7

    Do7 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    81
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2018
    Packer Fan Since:
    1994
    So...Tonight will be the final episode. Anyone looking forward to this?
     
  4. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

    Messages:
    8,684
    Likes Received:
    773
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1980
    As much as I looked forward to the rest of them LOL
     
  5. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    I don't think it's a matter of not seeing it coming, because they've always hinted at this possible ending for her. But that doesn't mean that it worked well, the writing these last two seasons have been extremely rushed. They always gave her the heroic edit, up until the last couple of episodes. Besides which, nearly all of the characters have done despicable things, but they weren't all turned evil at the last minute.
     
  6. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    20
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    But she wasn't turned evil at the last minute.... People just forgot her promises...


    "When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me," she said. "We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground. Turn us away, and we will burn you first."

    "I am Daenerys Stormborn of the blood of Old Valyria, and I will take what is mine — with fire and blood, I will take it."

    "They can live in my new world, or they can die in their old one."


    She had shown plenty of times that when she had the choice to be merciful she chose to be ruthless.

    I agree the pacing was a problem in this last season but the Dany heel turn I could see coming big time.
     
  7. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    50
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    The episode with the Night King, and the war in particular, was literally very dark and confusing. That may be the show runners trying to save a few bucks, but until Arya wasted the Night King, the whole episode was hard to follow.
     
  8. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    20
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    No, they weren't trying to save money. They had deep pockets for all of these episodes. The darkness was intentional.

    "Wagner emphasized that the darkness was a creative choice dictated by Sapochnik and showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss – the intention was to create a chaotic and confusing battle and plunge the viewer right into it."
     
  9. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    No, I didn't forget it. Why do people think that if you don't agree with her heel turn that you weren't paying attention? I could just as easily say the opposite. Yes, she could be ruthless, but there were also many times she was merciful, and tried to protect the weak.

    Her ruthless behaviors were well in line with the Game of Thrones world that we were shown, and were told that men of honor like Ned Stark were at a disadvantage. Her statements that you mentioned could just as easily have been uttered by anyone preparing for a war. Dany was not afraid to use her power, and up until this point had always used her power against evil men. Regardless of any of this, the show gave her the hero edit. They put many of the show's heroes on her side, Yara, Theon, Varys,Tyrion, Davon, and Jon, they all endorsed her. This was basically the show telling us to get behind her. If you watch the behind the scenes special from last week, the showrunners even say that they intend the audience to be behind Dany's army as they storm the gates. That confirms to me that they intended her turn as a cheap twist. Waste of a good character.

    She sacrificed much to fight for the living against the wights. It was only then that they started turning her into the Emperor from Star Wars, complete with Nazi imagery. I never said it wasn't foreshadowed, but I don't agree with it, and it was all badly rushed.
     
  10. felix145

    felix145 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    9
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Location:
    Europe
    Packer Fan Since:
    1999
    [​IMG]

    That was maybe the worst ending of a season ever. It's a shame how this epic series became so senseless.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    This video has been making the rounds lately. Aaron Rodgers talking about how he didn't like how Game of Thrones ended (you're joining a big club there, Aaron).

    Unfortunately, some in the media are using this to paint him as the "bad teammate" again, because they let him be in an episode, and then he turns around and criticizes the ending. Makes him look ungrateful, they say. However, I'm inclined to give him a pass on that because he's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!


    http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcnorth/p...illed-with-got-finale-or-his-mis-ids-in-cameo
     
  12. Do7

    Do7 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    771
    Likes Received:
    81
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2018
    Packer Fan Since:
    1994
    Seriously!? Who the hell is bitching this time?
     
  13. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    Jason Whitlock and the other guy on his show, I think his name is Marcellus Wiley. IIRC they both agreed on that point, that it was ungrateful to criticize the show after they let him appear in an episode. But they just mentioned it in passing. My opinion is that Rodgers, as a good member of the human race, would be remiss in NOT pointing out how bad the ending was.
     
  14. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,183
    Likes Received:
    158
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    The issue was that the Dany heel turn consisted of about 5 minutes...decent writing could have spread that out and made it more realistic, rather than staring at a castle and suddenly deciding to go incendiary Roomba over an entire city in the span of 5 minutes. I also think the random inability for any of the Scorpions to hit the dragon added to the ridiculousness (granted, the previous episode contained an equally ridiculous shot).

    Writers got lazy and were more interested in the grand spectacle rather than characters once they ran out of actual GRRM material.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,183
    Likes Received:
    158
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    I think my favorite comment I saw on Twitter was something to the effect of "Can't believe I spent 8 years with this and it ended that badly, is this what divorce feels like?"
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Messages:
    12,228
    Likes Received:
    846
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    She didn't exactly give all those serfs an opportunity to live in "my new world" under a dubious distinction between slaves and serfs. As the "breaker of chains", the Kings Landing serfs didn't quite qualify as slaves. That's not exactly madness. Did anybody expect her to draft a Magna Carta, abolish the landed gentry, and give the serfs of Kings Landing 40 acres and mule? Of course not. From the serf's perspective, it would be "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" which from her perspective would present a threat.

    I'm sure the conclusion was disappointing to many, particularly the fan girls, who expected the heroine to bring freedom and justice to the world even though there was little evidence of such inclination. Inside this fantasy wrapper is an allegorical setting in the Medieval dark ages. Nobody in power is interested in upsetting the feudal system, with the writers beating you over the head with it when the idea of a popular vote for king was laughed off.

    The choice of Bran is a reasonable one, a first turning of the page toward Enlightenment, from a warrior queen or king to the "visionary", even if the fact that he literally has visions is bit trite. There's value, one supposes, in having somebody lead who can plumb the past for the "historical facts", the embodiment of institutional memory, while being able to fly off as a raven to see what's happening first hand around his kingdom. The fact that the Night King had Bran as his primary target, for reasons not explained, should have given viewers an inclination that he has some special power over evil.

    Jon Snow? There's a price to paid for choosing incest over duty until it is too late. It left him vulnerable to being a pawn in political compromise.

    My complaints relate to artistic execution. Here are just a few examples out of several:

    • Some found a contradiction in Bran's "this is what I'm here for" and "I don't want to be king". Call it a preception of duty or fate over personal inclination. What was wrong is the way the latter line was delivered. Bad acting or writing or directing or all of the above, but that idea of duty or fate was not effectively delivered.
    • The dark filming in the White Walker battle may have been an artisitic choice. Or they may have gotten to editing and found the CGI was coming off fake. Either way, it didn't work. The one-on-one fights in the bowls of the castle amount to filler.
    • In the White Walker battle, the dragons make a couple of strafing passes then get lost in the clouds. I was saying then, I think out loud, "why don't you fly up?" We cut away from them and don't come back to them for what, 10, 15 minutes? What have they been doing? And then there they're wandering around above the clouds. Why not come in low for more strafing passes? I was thinking 1) the dragons don't have that much fuel and 2) fear of the Night King's spear. Which takes me to the next two points.
    • Prior to the final battle, Tyrion was certain the Iron Fleet would be taken out. I expected some twist in the battle plan. If stupidity (or madness?) is doing the same thing expecting a different result, then this qualifies. She comes flying in just like the last time, with dozens of those giant crossbows waiting for her. How come they're not all firing? Lucky for her. And by the time she strafes the crossbows on the city wall, they're not even pointing in her direction. Lucky again, and entirely inexplicable.
    • So, what we eventually find out is (1) these dragons have a bottomless amount of fuel and (2) any fear of a single Night King spear was supposed to be more of a deterrent than dozens of crossbows previously proven to be quite affective? Heck, the fate of the human race hung in the balance in the White Walker battle, where the stakes were much higher. Some dragon risk was called for in the White Walker battle whereas what we got was avoidance and, in retrospect, the wherewithal to lay waste to the White Walker army long before they reached the castle walls as was evidenced in their ability to lay waste to an entire city. That doesn't get you to an hour and 20 minutes, however.
    • I was waiting for Arya Stark to apply her shape shifting abilities to the proceedings somewhere in this final season. Shift to a White Walker in taking out the Night King, perhaps? Instead, she flys out of the sky, a skill we didn't know she had? Or once inside Kings Landing, on the hunt for Cersei? I guess she forgot how.
    In the final analysis, this was an entertaining TV series. The problem for me was not who won and lost, who was mad and who wasn't. The problem was starting with the premise of 8 hours and then creating a story arc that fit, with a bunch of logical inconsistencies and a lot repetitive wooden dialogue along the way. They could have gotten to the end point a lot faster in a more coherent manner. That doesn't make as much money.

    In the final analysis this sh*t ain't Aeschylus or Shakespeare. It's not even "The Sopranos" or "Deadwood" once you strip away the expensive special affects. It's fun to analyze but not something in which to have gotten emotionally immersed even before this defective final season.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  17. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    20
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Yes, it wasn't a perfect season. Yes, you raise some good points. I honestly don't see the reason for the backlash and petitions. Maybe I didn't invest as much emotional currency as others into the characters. I dunno. I can say that there has not been a more talked about tv show, probably ever, in my office. We still enjoy talking about it and making theories and hoping for various prequels to happen. We still want to know more about the work that GRRM created. To say that immersing oneself in this universe was not worthwhile I think is harsh. When GoT was good, it was amongst the best television of all time, IMO.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Messages:
    12,228
    Likes Received:
    846
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Packer Fan Since:
    1959
    There are petitions? Sheesh. Are those the same folks who were outragaged by "The Sopranos" cut-to-black ending, which for my money was brilliant? Why should anything be wrapped up all tidy with a bow, fitting whatever comfortable closure one might envision? GoT Prequel? That I might not watch.

    Don't get me wrong. I watched every GoT episode from the beginning as it aired since long before it was a "thing". It's pretty rare for me to stick with a series to the end. It's actually pretty rare for me to get past a sampling of a few episodes. But it is an entertainment. If you took out all the visuals, let's say all you had was the script to read, what do you think you'd have? I say "c'mon". Once you involve dragons and an army of zombies, how seriously should you take it? If you find metaphors in these devices I'd say you're digging too deep.
     
  19. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    270
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1965
    I work with a guy who says he liked the ending, or at least he didn't hate it, and when I told him he may be the only one he said the polls were split pretty much 50/50. I guess its like everything else, only the ones who are pissed of are the ones saying anything.

    Now here is what I am wondering. I recall seeing an interview with GRRM after the first season where he said he had the beginning of the story and he knew how he wanted to end the story and as long as the series started and ended with what he had in mind he didn't care what they did in the middle. I don't believe he has finished writing the story yet has he? Does that mean the rest of the books are pretty much a waste of time since we know how how is going to end it.

    It doesn't matter to me since this is a lot like the LOTR or Harry Potter. I'll watch the movies but there is no way in hell I'm reading the books.
     
  20. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1960
    I can enjoy a Star Wars movie, but it's not a big deal to me. Some people seem to almost make it into a religion, and those are the people who get so disappointed when the latest movie doesn't live up to their expectations. Meanwhile, I can watch it and be entertained without getting upset. I might be like "Oh, those midichlorians don't make sense", but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

    There's a petition to remake the eighth season with 1 1/2 million signatures on it.

    You seem to be inferring that fantasy cannot be a legitimate genre. I don't agree.


    From what I understand, he has finished 1,000 out of 3,000 more pages (his estimate). Supposedly his ending is supposed to be basically the same, with some minor changes and extra stuff added in. I'd actually like to see him have the courage to change the ending, into something a little more meaningful.

    I've never quite "got" Harry Potter, but Tolkien is awesome. The movies aren't even close to his books IMO.
     
  21. GreenNGold_81

    GreenNGold_81 Cheesehead

    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    20
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Packer Fan Since:
    1990
    Tolkien lost me at Tom Bombadil's dumb forest singing. I've loved Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms though. A Drizzt series would be insane.
     
  22. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    274
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2017
    Packer Fan Since:
    1996
    Nerds.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  23. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,183
    Likes Received:
    158
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    No, I don't think the books will be mostly the same. Some authors might know how they want a story to end when they begin but after a decade of writing things in that initial concept have usually changed for authors like GRRM. I only learned a few days ago that there are two kinds of authors, plotters or pantsers. Plotters write their books with a detailed plan in place while pantsers write by the "seat of their pants" and let the characters they've created grow and dictate the direction of the plot as they move along. GRRM is a pantser; he creates amazing characters but his plans change as the characters change. He might have had a certain ending in mind when he started but now that ending may no longer be possible with how his characters have changed.

    Interesting article on this and why the last two seasons of GoTs seemed so underwhelming to many (show producers ran out of GRRM material and were forced to go off on their own):
    https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-plotters-vs-pantsers/
     
  24. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    270
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Packer Fan Since:
    1965
    Revenge of the Nerds...now that was a movie franchise I could watch over and over. Good candy too.

    I'm the same with Star Wars. I never got into it as much as some did. Like most movie franchises I don't pay attention enough to recognize all the inconsistencies and all the lead ins to the next installments.

    I think the courage is to go where people don't expect, not that they don't expect it anymore but to change what he had in mind would be a cop out IMO. I love those complaining about Dany and what she did. You might not have seen it coming but if you don't think its something she was capable of you were not paying attention.

    I watched all the HP movies but I wouldn't say I was into them. I do reptile shows and bug shows for kids and I have gotten some good reference materials from it where I can relate it to my shows. I doubt I will ever watch them again.

    As for LOTR I never read the books and I never will but I have a friend who says he reads them all at least every couple of years. I liked the movies (it probably helps not having read the books) but when you just don't like the main character its kind of hard to get through.

    I won't see season 8 until it comes out on DVD and my library gets it and by then nothing will be a surprise but hopefully by then I will figure out which scene Rodgers was really in and I will catch it.
     
  25. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Messages:
    3,183
    Likes Received:
    158
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    Just saw this fake pitch video for the final season of GoT; it's amazing, hilarious, and explains literally everything wrong with the final season of GoT for those that want to smile for about 7 minutes.

     
    • Like Like x 3

Share This Page

-->