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Interesting Read from JS Online ...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Quientus, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Click Here


    This isn't meant to be a discussion on "What if" nor a comparison in general, but rather the case I've posted in another thread, as to why Rodgers is a part of the issue with the problems the offensive line of Packers are currently having ...

    While the offensive line of the Packers surely could use reinforcements, one has also to take into account of the players on the team adjusting ... and in this case also the quarterback ... Aaron Rodgers ...


    Also the previous blog written : Click Here also Read This




     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I don't know if we would be better served with Favre over Rodgers. What I do know is that despite having a worse WR corps (though ours are dropping balls like crazy), Favre has a way better OL and a WAY better Rb. So he doesn't NEED to make huge plays every time.
    -
    Like I said in another post, Rodgers has blame, he could be better, but he's not the reason we're losing. Different issues, to me.
     
  3. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Like I posted, - I am not looking for a debate about whether or not etc etc ... as that is a moot point by now ...

    What I am looking for is a more "comprehensive" look at the issues concerning the offensive line of the Packers ...

    My point in case is that the line isn't as bad as alot of people would seem to think it is ... Because with adjustments alot of the current errors might actually be "weeded" out ...

    Case in point being that on many plays, Rodgers actually has the opportunities and is also given time both by either the offensive line OR by himself to get the ball out (but basing it on the previous 4 games) it would seem that unless it can go beyond a certain point either he just doesn't see it or he just doesn't want to ...

    And reading the articles from JS Online ... one can't help but wonder ...
     
  4. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Sydney Rice has been looking like jerry Rice since favre has come over. Berrian and Favre are starting to hook up and Percy harvin is going to be a star so yeah the Packers may have the best wideouts in the NFC I think the vikes have potential to be great. I really thought with matty Birk leaving that the O-line would take a big hit but so far Sullivan and Loadholt have been pretty good. When both of your tackles are 6'8 and 350 lbs or so that makes for pretty good bookends. Loadholt and MT.McKinney look like they could be twins. I think if Rodgers gets alittle more protection and if the line play gets better and your running game open ups all the negative Rodgers talk will stop. The Skys the limit with him at the helm IMO
     
  5. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Sacks allowed last year (for the entire season) - 34 - v. Sacks this year (through four games) -20-

    I have watched every last one of the games from whistle to whistle -- and I love watching line play, most of the time, I don't even know which 'skill' position player has the ball.

    THE TACKLES IN THIS OFFENSIVE LINE ARE MAKING MASSIVE SUCKING NOISES -- and 'tweeks' here and 'adjustments' there are not the solution. Barbre is NOT a tackle and Colledge is not a tackle. There is no softening that fact. When Tausch is back and ready, Barbre will be history. If Clifton is healed and can stay healthy, Colledge will be back at guard.

    As much as I hate seeing our QB getting killed and on his back an average of 5 times per game, what is ailing this team has ZERO to do with the QB....same as last year.
     
  6. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    yeah as an outsider looking in I think your QB play has been pretty good. I am kind of shocked to hear anything negative about him. It was a circus with the whole favre thing and Aaron Rodgers has done his thing and not let it bother him. That is a leader who seems like a good guy when in the NFL anymore that is rare
     
  7. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    There are those, SG, who will find some way to place blame in such a way that it will circle its way back to #4 ... and ultimately end up finding some way to blame TT for the outbreak of the war of 1812.

    Some are pretty good at it. Almost downright devious. Fact is that when your offensive line is non-functional, your offense is going to look like crap. Now, the Vikies have put together a decent line and not surprisingly, are 5-0. Of course, a big part can be attributed to a big play defense, but that offense hasn't hurt the Vikes at all.
     
  8. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    I was watching ESPN today(around the horn) and sounds like most believe on there that The Ravens will win on sunday. If that is the case and the pack beat the Lions which they should the north could get pretty interesting. I am a Viking fan but since I am an old man(47)I have seen plenty of heartbreak from my team so I am still not convinced about them as I have seen it before. 2003 the Vikings started out 6-0 and failed to make the playoffs. Such is life as a viking fan.Aaron Rodgers will get all kinds of love if the packers win the North and if they don't it willl be the fault of not bringing Favre back. You know how that goes. i just think you have a special QB over there but he can't do it all. I think the Vikes win on sunday but only because of the Dome.
     
  9. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Minnesota's O-line is not WAY better than Green Bay's. As a matter of fact, prior to the Green Bay game, Favre was near the top of the NFL in terms of being sacked, and I believe he was dropped twice against the Rams.

    I would say Minnesota's pass-blocking is a great deal better than Green Bay's, minus Clifton and Tauscher but fairly comparable with them.
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Okay, you're counting Clifton and Tauscher being healthy. Then I agree with you. But I'd say without them, we're by far the worst OL in the nfl, and the worst OL I've seen in a while (maybe Houston when they were an expansion team).
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Really? People actually do that? :shock:

    We're 8th in ppg (a stat that matters, for those who don't like stats), and the MOST sacked team in the league. If anyone thinks the OL is not almost entirely to blame, they're delusional.
     
  12. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Matter of fact? what ? More like matter of fiction.Brett Favre has been sacked nine times this year Nine times in 5 games is not bad. this year so your statement is way off.He got sacked by the lions so maybe we can see with a common foe if your line stacks up to the Vikings O-line. I do not know where you got your stats but I assure you he has been well protected and you have been misinformed. He has taken a handful of hits after releasing the ball(once by the packers)but that is going to happen.
     
  13. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    2/5 of the Vikings line is new so they did have some breakdowns against the Niners. Loadholt is a rookie and sullivan is a second year guy that had a heck of a game against kaufmen. That is the first time since 2007 they did not give up a sack so things look good for the guys in purple
     
  14. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Well, I won't argue too much here about sacks, but I believe he was sacked 9 times thru 4 games, which would equate to 36 sacks on the year - not good.

    So, it's now either 9 or 11 thru 5 games - not bad. But, keep in mind the combined winning percentage of Minny's opponents - it ain't good.

    I'm sure some of the early troubles had to do with Brett's familiarity with the system and if that's the case, then we should continue to count on as good or better pass protection throughout the rest of the season.

    Also, keep in mind I'm half on your side this year - I hate to harp on it but you seem to attack my posts like I am a Vikings' hater. I'm simply putting my hand on your arm as you attempt to swig a bit too much kool-aid. :)
     
  15. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    SG, I was talking "talent", and guys being drafted to fill known holes in your line. See, Thompson learned at the knee of Ron Wolf and Ron Wolf seemed to deem OLinemen as expendable and interchangeable. If there is one thing that really ticked me off about Wolf, it was that seeming indifference to quality line play. It was different at first because when he first got to GB, it was so flippin' obvious that wholesale changes were necessary in the line ... they draft guys like Aaron Taylor, pull in guys like Guy McIntyre ... but Thompson just seems to view lineman as "parts is parts" and it's maddening to me.
     
  16. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Sorry, I didn't mean to single your posts out. Brett is still trying to figure where his wideouts are going to be so i think with time and the line working together will improve as season goes. No training camp is hurting them as far as being comfortable but may help with freshness late in the season.Everybody thinks brett will have a late season collapse and he might but the man has looked great so far and really what alternitive do the vikings have? 2 first year starters on the line should be a reason for their falters but not much you can do about now. To lose an All-Pro Center like Birk is pretty big but Sullivan is holding his own. The Niners attack from everywhere and the Packers will find that out next month so they have alot of work to do but all things considerd the O-Line has been pretty good if you ask me. When teams play the Vikings they play to stop AD AP so that is alot of bodies on the line wouldn't you agree? When Brett fakes a handoff and goes back to pass the bodies on the line that are there to snuff peterson are still there so that is alot of traffic to defend. I like the upside of the Vikings line better than I do the packers.
     
  17. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Vikings have always had great lineman but they do get overlooked so I hear what your saying. I was listening to the radio the other day and they compared teams from '98 to this year and nobody on this line would have started for our '98 team as we had Hall of Fame inductee Randall McDaniel in Hutchinson place. The late Great Korey Stringer and All-pro Jeff Christy at center and All-pro Todd Stuessie at tackle and perinial starter in David Dixon who was a monster. so the Vikings line is not great but the Vikings draft well with offensive line and always have. The QB position seems to be a revolving door around here where the packers have been so stable.3 QB's in the last 20+ years is pretty impressive.Magic man,Favre and now Rodgers. The Vikings haven't had a decent QB that has held down the job for any length of period since tommy Kramer and he replaced fran Tarkenton so that was along time ago.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Brett Favre - Minnesota Vikings - Split Statistics - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

    Take a look at situation 3 year average

    September-100.0 rating
    October- 84.2
    November- 99.5
    December- 66.9

    Td to int ration is worse in October and December..

    Then look at games 1-8..93.6 rating 37 tds and 22 ints
    games 9-16..85.7 rating 22 tds and 17 ints

    and you might say well last year he was hurt..Yup...But then you look at 07 where he played really well in the later games..so those 2 even them selves out if you ask me.

    Go back to 2006 then 2005

    It is really obvious that as the season went on he got worse
     
  19. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    yeah well as long as you got it to an exact sience:stinker:Sorry with the sarcasm. I just can't help myself. Childress is shooting his wad with Favre at the helm because nothing less of a NFC championship game I think Childress is gone so we will ride the old man until the wheels fall off I guess. But take note 11 games are inside so the weather will not bother him as much. He wont have to throw the ball 50 times a game and will get rested much like last week against the rams as T-Jack will come in when game has been decided. Hand the ball off to AP and manage the game is what is expected . Our Defense will win games alone this year.
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Anything less then a SB appearance Chilly should be gone..Sorry but when you bring in a 40 year old q/b that has missed entire off season your saying he is good enough to get you to the SB

    We will see how the next month goes for this team..Right now do they look really good...but as pointed out numerous times, the competition was nothing sort of just average.... and yes that includes GB and the sorry excuse for bad line play..

    The only real hope the fans need to pray for is if they get to the NFCCG is that it is in Minny, New Orleans, Frisco, or maybe Philly...

    If its in New York, or Green Bay and the weather turns very cold, it wont be good for Brett..

    He can play in the snow and not so much cold temps like 20 or so..When it gets colder is when he has lot of trouble. Which was proven twice in 07..In Chicago and then the Giants game..
     
  21. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    NFC championship game may save his job. Ziggi seems to like him. As a fan I am in a win-win situitation because I am not a big fan of Brad Childress. The Chilly ball against the Pack was crazy as the Vikings were up by 16 with alittle over 3 minutes to go. The Vikings dominated the game the whole day(I realize except for packer fans)It was so obvious to all who watched the game. They try and kill the clock and rodgers gets abunch of garbage yards in the 4th qtr and packer fans act like they were right there but really they got pounded. Holmgren( how would that add to the drama) would be good fit as he is looking to return and there is a certain coach by the name of tony Dungy( Gopher Alum) hanging out at winter Park this summer. Or maybe even ex Super Bowl champion coach from Pittsburg Bill C is also looking for a job next year. The bottum line is yours and my input will not dictate how this season plays out. It is what it is. Favre is the guy who is QB of this team your stats will not throw the Int's you predict so keep talking about it as you make Viking fans like me laugh. Do you think he will get benched because of your stats? The Vikings have alot of talent so he won't have to do it all. The Packers with Favre were 13-3 his last year and a year later with Aaron Rodgers were 6-10. So where are your stats to defend that?
     
  22. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    **** Tinglehoff. Now there's a guy that even LOOKED like a center. He was one of my favorites in the 70's ... the just played his keester off.
     
  23. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Oh for sure. I remember those days well. The Vikings have had alot of great Centers over the years but **** was the first real All-pro center. My dad would take us to training camp when it was in Bemidji and **** would stick around and sign autographs way longer than anybody else. Bill "Boom-Boom" Brown and **** were my first autographs I ever got. Joe Kapp was another great guy with all the kids at camp. Tarkenton was a prick. Back in the day the Vikings had a basketball team that would travel around the state and play games for charity and Bill Brown saw me and remembered me and came up into the stands and took me out on the court with him during the game. I was like 8 at the time so that was alot of fun. Great guys!
     
  24. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    A-rod is not a god and can adjust his game to put the Pack in the best position to win with what he has to work with. If that means he only has 2.3 seconds on average to get the ball thats what he has to do.

    Packers do not exist to serve A-rod.
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    How can he adjust if the receivers don't get open in time, and when they do, they drop the ball?

    He's not a God, that's why he's not going to be perfect everytime. And the adjustments are made by the coaches. And I believe they have done that. We're not playing like we did against chicago anymore. But we're not going to just play short routes, because we don't have a running game to back that plan up! We need to throw the ball deep sometimes, at least to keep defenses safe, and more important, to keep our offense in the game. Unless our D starts to give up only 10 points per game, instead of the 20s they have been giving so far.
     

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