Getting Favre a ring

[warhawk]

One of the first big things that happened when I first got here (on this forum) was Thompson replacing Sherman and the controversy it's raised regarding Favre getting another ring before he retires.

Here's how I see it. I think this whole issue would be a MUTE POINT if Ted Thompson had come in here as GM around the '02 season.

Why? What difference would that make? Plenty.

We were already a good football team. The foundation was there. In Thompson we get a guy that could go after the " best available" players who could come in later and replace guys leaving. He would have had a POTPOURI of players and the POSITION would not have mattered.

By NOT letting Sherman in as GM we elimanate the decision making to track towards that REGGIE MENTALITY. Finding that ONE guy that could put us back in the SB.

Mike Sherman used up so much energy and so many players looking for REGGIE WHITE he forgot that guys leave and guys get old. This is not a cut on Sherman as I am sure he just KNEW how close to it all they were he could TASTE it.

It's also why I would never endorse the HC as GM again. Not ever.

The '02 Green Bay Packers was a PERFECT FIT for Ted Thompson who loves to draft and develope players thru the draft and not take a lot of chances. The starters were pretty much intact at that point vs. the last couple of years where at least five starters on both sides of the ball either had to go or got old and had to be replaced.

That's a lot of action for a guy who likes to build thru the draft first but I believe somewhere along the way with Sherman Coaching and Thompson building Favre would already have that second ring he's still looking for.

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.

This in no way is a knock on MM. I think he is steady as a rock and will do fine and am quite certain he has handled all of the CHANGES we have seen better than MS would have. MS was not big on change.

 

[nathaniel]

I'm one of the biggest Favre fans on the planet, and I would love nothing more than to see him get another ring. But do you know what thought makes me even more excited? The PACKERS winning another Super Bowl! Favre or no Favre. I'm a Packer fan first, and a Favre fan second.

I haven't agreed with some of the decisions TT has made this offseason, but I don't think TT wants the Packers to be a losing team. He wants to win too, and he's doing what he sees fit. It would have been nice to make a couple good moves during free agency, though.

 

[evad04]

If anyone thinks that we were a few stud FAs from being a Superbowl team, they're sorely mistaken.

I'm ECSTATIC that Favre is coming back because he is a joy to watch and gives us a better chance to win than anyone else. That said, last year's record can be a bit deceiving. We were 5-1 in a division where two of the teams ended up with top 7 picks in the draft. The last win against Chicago will always be debated on its merits (we did kick the crap out of them, but they didn't need the win). Against good teams, though, we pretty much got stomped. We were severely outclassed by the likes of New England, the Jets, Philly, and Chicago the first time around. And this upcoming year, we have an even tougher schedule (San Diego, Denver, Philly, Giants, and Dallas).

Sure, a Randy Moss or a high profile player would help out, but it wouldn't likely make the Packers a contender. I might not completely agree with TT's methodology, but at least he's consistent.

 

[pyledriver80]

The point that I think some people do not understand about mine and others negativity towards Ted is the fact that we don't think Ted is capable of doing it.

I don't like the rebuilding plan and I think its often times an excuse for poor management. However, if this team is truly "rebuilding" why do we hear Thompson say over and over again that we are trying to win now. Obviously Brett's a little confused as well.

The dishonesty is just one of the problems I have with Ted. I know and you know Ted is TRYING to rebuild. The key word is TRYING. You guys act like it's a done deal that in 2 years we will be in the Super Bowl with some dynasty that will be a team to reckon with for several years. I look at the NFL today and the moves Thompson has made and I just don't see it. You guys get way overly excited over run of the mill calibur players. There are 50 Greg Jennings in the NFL. There are 50 Nick Collins's. There are 100 Jason Spitz's. There are 100 Vernand Morency's. You can like thier potential but they are at this time EXTREMELY average. You don't think other teams don't think thier guys have potential as well. Theres no reason to think Greg Jennings will be any better than Reggie Brown or Santonio Holmes or whomever.


I just don't see Ted building Rome. I don't see this tremendous leader who is any smarter than any other GM that has cycled through the NFL in the last decade. I don't see this Draft Guru. He landed Hawk, big deal. 95% of GM's in this league would have made that pick. He drafted a few average guys outside of that. He struggles to land FA's. He landed Woodson but also landed Manual. He brought in Pickett to stop the run, than burns a 1st rounder the following year on a run stuffing DT. The moves look utterly average.


You can support him if you'd like and thats fine. I myself have no doubt that every year that goes by will be another year closer to TT being shown the door. Pretty soon, Ted's going to half to be held accountable for his moves. No more blaming Mike Sherman, Brett Favre, Randy Moss, etc. It's going to be his team pretty soon and Brett won't be a part of it. Let TT field his own QB surrounded by rookies and Third Down RB's and see where we end up. If he can do it, I'll take back every word I ever said about him. However, I am pretty confident that TT's on the downside of his time in GB. Fans are starting to get ance, Brett's getting fed up, and I can't help but to think the other players are to. TT is going to have his feet to the fire real soon.

 

[nathaniel]

If anyone thinks that we were a few stud FAs from being a Superbowl team, they're sorely mistaken.

I don't think anyone can really believe that a couple FAs would turn everything around. We have glaring holes that need to be filled, and IMHO bringing in a veteran or two at certain positions would have been nice. I have confidence in the players we have now. I don't think we're SB bound by any means, but I'll still skip church on Sunday to watch them anyway. Haha.

 

[warhawk]

The point that I think some people do not understand about mine and others negativity towards Ted is the fact that we don't think Ted is capable of doing it.

I don't like the rebuilding plan and I think its often times an excuse for poor management. However, if this team is truly "rebuilding" why do we hear Thompson say over and over again that we are trying to win now. Obviously Brett's a little confused as well.

The dishonesty is just one of the problems I have with Ted. I know and you know Ted is TRYING to rebuild. The key word is TRYING. You guys act like it's a done deal that in 2 years we will be in the Super Bowl with some dynasty that will be a team to reckon with for several years. I look at the NFL today and the moves Thompson has made and I just don't see it. You guys get way overly excited over run of the mill calibur players. There are 50 Greg Jennings in the NFL. There are 50 Nick Collins's. There are 100 Jason Spitz's. There are 100 Vernand Morency's. You can like thier potential but they are at this time EXTREMELY average. You don't think other teams don't think thier guys have potential as well. Theres no reason to think Greg Jennings will be any better than Reggie Brown or Santonio Holmes or whomever.


I just don't see Ted building Rome. I don't see this tremendous leader who is any smarter than any other GM that has cycled through the NFL in the last decade. I don't see this Draft Guru. He landed Hawk, big deal. 95% of GM's in this league would have made that pick. He drafted a few average guys outside of that. He struggles to land FA's. He landed Woodson but also landed Manual. He brought in Pickett to stop the run, than burns a 1st rounder the following year on a run stuffing DT. The moves look utterly average.


You can support him if you'd like and thats fine. I myself have no doubt that every year that goes by will be another year closer to TT being shown the door. Pretty soon, Ted's going to half to be held accountable for his moves. No more blaming Mike Sherman, Brett Favre, Randy Moss, etc. It's going to be his team pretty soon and Brett won't be a part of it. Let TT field his own QB surrounded by rookies and Third Down RB's and see where we end up. If he can do it, I'll take back every word I ever said about him. However, I am pretty confident that TT's on the downside of his time in GB. Fans are starting to get ance, Brett's getting fed up, and I can't help but to think the other players are to. TT is going to have his feet to the fire real soon.

If you go to PackersChatter( sorry I don't know how to link) there is an article about this very topic. What was Thompson looking at personnel wise and how was he going to get there.
It discussed the failed drafts leaving the talent pool bare, addressing aging veterans, dealing with a lack of depth. The point of this thread was to show that the path TT has chosen isn't all by choice by any means but more out of neccessity.

It all depends on whether or not you agree or disagree with the "State of the Packers" when TT got here. If you agree with the essence of what the article above says you understand what Thompson is doing. If you thing the Packers talent pool was fine for the most part and needed "tweaking you have a bone to pick.

Personally, I watched a team go from breathing easily, to taking deep breaths, to gasping, to getting the wind knocked out of it and wonder where some of you were through all of that.

 

[Green_Bay_Packers]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

 

[dhpackr]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

 

[warhawk]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

Actually, that is how it's done. If you look at the depth charts of teams in the NFL that is exactly what happens.

We replaced the older "0" line with 2nd and 3rd rounders which is actually on the higher side other than that franchise tackle that gets gone early.

If we had more 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys contributing from the '02's, '03's, and '04's we wouldn't be in need of filling all the depth problems we're looking at now PLUS, and most importantly, if the 1st and 2nd round picks from those years we're quality STARTERS today we would be in pretty darn shape right now.

We swung and missed entirely too much in the early rounds those years and that is why Ted, who get's routinely beat over the head for this, obtains as many picks as possible.

If you look at the roster and depth chart of what he took over you won't find fifteen players out of fifty three that would be what you want to realistically get you into the playoffs.

Yet he get's ripped for adding more picks. Look at the roster he took over and then come back and say the way he has been going about this is wrong.

 

[Green_Bay_Packers]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

ye we do have a 1st and 2nd round aswell

 

[MassPackersFan]

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

You're right, don't forget about the 7th round! Tauscher and Driver. :jumpsmile:

The way to build a team is to foster good competition at every position. One thing about the team a few years ago, we had horrible depth so almost zero competition. Nowadays, we can sit and discuss who each of us thinks should start at safety, linebacker, D-line, WR, etc... and you can't tell me those positions aren't stronger now than they were 3 years ago.

 

[Zero2Cool]

He has one and had a shot at a second and blew it. Screw him! Get one for the rookies on the team!! They earned it!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DakotaT]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

Are you old enough to have watched the Cowboys build their 3 super bowl winning teams of the 90's? Jimmy Johnson trade downs were legendary.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I have no problem getting Favre a ring and I'm sure that no one in the GB organization does either. Because it means winning the title!! That's what everyone in the business should be there for!

If TT honestly felt that adding a few FAs would get GB over the hump to win a SB, then I'm confident he'd make the moves. We had the cap space and we have the legend to attrack FAs (Favre).

The problem, which makes this whole thread pointless, is that a few top FAs would not get the job done! Those players would eat up the salary cap, take away chances for developing talent and leave us at 4-12. Want proof -- reference Washington Redskins!

FAs can help, there's no question about that. We could use a couple of proven veterans on the team. But this is not the difference between GB winning a title or not making the playoffs. And no matter the perceived hate between TT and Favre, TT is not "choosing" to make this a bad team or to prevent Favre from getting another ring.

GO PACK GO!!!

 

[pyledriver80]

It's so funny that you guys KNOW the recipe for building a winning team. You and Ted Thompson. Not all those other silly GM's who spend money on FA's. I bet NE kicking themselves in the ***.

There's no recipe folks, teams have been built 150 different ways and been successful. All that matters is if you win on Sunday. FA's, Rookies, Street guys, noone cares. Win and you did it correctly. So far Ted has not won.

 

[Packnic]

but you know the recipe for a championship pyle??? cause New England won 3 championships without making one big splash in free agency.
they built a championship team just like we are doing now.

no one knows the blueprint for success, but if you look around the NFL, this is as close as it gets to building the best team possible. as evidenced by the last few great teams.

but you cant see that somehow.

 

[cheesey]

It's so funny that you guys KNOW the recipe for building a winning team. You and Ted Thompson. Not all those other silly GM's who spend money on FA's. I bet NE kicking themselves in the ***.

There's no recipe folks, teams have been built 150 different ways and been successful. All that matters is if you win on Sunday. FA's, Rookies, Street guys, noone cares. Win and you did it correctly. So far Ted has not won.

Geez.....just when i think it can't get any dumber.
Yup Pyle.....you have ALL the answers. Why arn't YOU the Packers GM? The Redskins........they spent money on big name FA's left and right. How many SB's did it get them? NE ALREADY BUILT a strong team, and has added some FA's to try to push them over the top again.
To say "so far Ted has not won".........yeah, he's had PLENTY of time to make GB the champs, right? 2 whole seasons! Even though most of the team was old and needed serious rebuilding by the time he took over as GM. They went from 4-12 to 8-8......but thats not winning, right? Oh....i know......you will just throw in your tired old comment "If thats the super bowl for you"...........had they went from 8-8 to 4-12 then you would have an argument. THEY GOT BETTER, I know.....your next line is....."But they only beat bad teams"...........well, they could have LOST to those teams, right? They did pretty darn good considering where they were at the beginning of the season.
Totally unlike where the Patriots are now. NO ONE could have put the Pack in the SB in the 2 years he has had, with what he has had to work with. But hey........why let that fact muddle up a good hate?

 

[tromadz]

It's so funny that you guys KNOW the recipe for building a winning team. You and Ted Thompson. Not all those other silly GM's who spend money on FA's. I bet NE kicking themselves in the ***.

There's no recipe folks, teams have been built 150 different ways and been successful. All that matters is if you win on Sunday. FA's, Rookies, Street guys, noone cares. Win and you did it correctly. So far Ted has not won.

Geez.....just when i think it can't get any dumber.

just do what i do and laugh it off.

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[pyledriver80]

but you know the recipe for a championship pyle??? cause New England won 3 championships without making one big splash in free agency.
they built a championship team just like we are doing now.

no one knows the blueprint for success, but if you look around the NFL, this is as close as it gets to building the best team possible. as evidenced by the last few great teams.

but you cant see that somehow.

Uhhh, you seem to be confused about NE. Nuff said, I can see who I'm dealing with

 

[tromadz]

but you know the recipe for a championship pyle??? cause New England won 3 championships without making one big splash in free agency.
they built a championship team just like we are doing now.

no one knows the blueprint for success, but if you look around the NFL, this is as close as it gets to building the best team possible. as evidenced by the last few great teams.

but you cant see that somehow.

Uhhh, you seem to be confused about NE. Nuff said, I can see who I'm dealing with

I believe he was talking about their REBUILDING years leading to their superbowl runs, but you dont understand this, I can see who I'm dealing with. Nuff said.

 

[pyledriver80]

It's so funny that you guys KNOW the recipe for building a winning team. You and Ted Thompson. Not all those other silly GM's who spend money on FA's. I bet NE kicking themselves in the ***.

There's no recipe folks, teams have been built 150 different ways and been successful. All that matters is if you win on Sunday. FA's, Rookies, Street guys, noone cares. Win and you did it correctly. So far Ted has not won.

Geez.....just when i think it can't get any dumber.
Yup Pyle.....you have ALL the answers. Why arn't YOU the Packers GM? The Redskins........they spent money on big name FA's left and right. How many SB's did it get them? NE ALREADY BUILT a strong team, and has added some FA's to try to push them over the top again.
To say "so far Ted has not won".........yeah, he's had PLENTY of time to make GB the champs, right? 2 whole seasons! Even though most of the team was old and needed serious rebuilding by the time he took over as GM. They went from 4-12 to 8-8......but thats not winning, right? Oh....i know......you will just throw in your tired old comment "If thats the super bowl for you"...........had they went from 8-8 to 4-12 then you would have an argument. THEY GOT BETTER, I know.....your next line is....."But they only beat bad teams"...........well, they could have LOST to those teams, right? They did pretty darn good considering where they were at the beginning of the season.
Totally unlike where the Patriots are now. NO ONE could have put the Pack in the SB in the 2 years he has had, with what he has had to work with. But hey........why let that fact muddle up a good hate?

What does that scrambled mess even say?

Are you saying there is a recipe? Yes or No?

You are like that old guy who gets around the younger crowd and tries to show off. All the young dorks think you are cool but the rest of us are stuck saying "wtf".

Do you disagree that thier is no recipe? That was my point. Quit rambling and trying to start **** to look good to the "dorks" and debate things normally

 

[MassPackersFan]

If there is no recipe why on God's Green f*#$ing Earth will you not shut up about how Thompson is using the wrong strategy? It's barely even taking effect yet.

 

[dhpackr]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

Actually, that is how it's done. If you look at the depth charts of teams in the NFL that is exactly what happens.

We replaced the older "0" line with 2nd and 3rd rounders which is actually on the higher side other than that franchise tackle that gets gone early.

If we had more 3rd, 4th, and 5th round guys contributing from the '02's, '03's, and '04's we wouldn't be in need of filling all the depth problems we're looking at now PLUS, and most importantly, if the 1st and 2nd round picks from those years we're quality STARTERS today we would be in pretty darn shape right now.

We swung and missed entirely too much in the early rounds those years and that is why Ted, who get's routinely beat over the head for this, obtains as many picks as possible.

If you look at the roster and depth chart of what he took over you won't find fifteen players out of fifty three that would be what you want to realistically get you into the playoffs.

Yet he get's ripped for adding more picks. Look at the roster he took over and then come back and say the way he has been going about this is wrong.

how about I re-phrase my responce to , We won't get back to the playoffs if TT keeps drafting "SKILLED POSITIONS" like RB and WR in the fourth and fifth round . I'm still not sold on GJ, J-Walk is much better. That is a comparison of a first and second round pick. I think Green was a high draft pick, but I'm not sure. I just wish TT did something to get a solid playmaker on offense in the first rounds of the 2007 draft if he was going to let green go and not bring in Moss. Lynch, Jarrett, Meachum, Olsen somebody. I wonder what the price would have been to move up in front of buffalo to draft lynch. Bowe, and Meachum were there at 16, I would have been happy w/that. and we could have swung a trade to draft jarrett in the second round. 'cmon Jarrett in the second round was great value. We'll see how Jones pans out, but I wish we took the inititive to get Brett and DD some help

 

[tromadz]

Walker in his 4th year is better than Jennings in his rookie year? And that surprises you?

 

[dhpackr]

Thompsons way IS BUILDING A STRONGER TEAM from where it was and it's a shame, IMO, that he is getting railed for not doing it FAST enough to get BF what HE wants. Watching all that has gone on since TT was brought here and seeing all the players that have had to be addressed I think the job has been hard enough without that hanging over his head.


yeah he best build a stronger team otherwise we aint got a chance of winning the superbowl

I just don't see building a team around 3rd, 4th , and 5th round draft picks is going to get the Packers back to the playoffs.

Are you old enough to have watched the Cowboys build their 3 super bowl winning teams of the 90's? Jimmy Johnson trade downs were legendary.

that's great, BTW, was it the depth of the Dallas teams that won the Superbowl, or was it Emmit, Micheal, and Troy coupled w/a great "O" line and Moose and Novachek, but I still feel it is real important to draft playmakers with your first two draft picks. sometimes, I can't really see trading down in the second round for an additional 5th round draft choice. I can see it working here and there, but a steady pattern of trading down gets old.