Game 2 - What are you looking for?

[gopkrs]

Well Nate, you have a point. Maybe they should find another teacher for him in the meantime?? Cause whatever they are doing with him now is not working well.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

For the same reason people who said we needed to dump Davante after a bad 2nd year need to learn to sit on their hands. You don't judge a guy on a mediocre rookie season and 2 preseason games. Especially when you've invested heavily in him. Guys like Spriggs at a position as critical as OT aren't going to last 2 seconds on the PS. Some OL needy team is going to snatch him up and laugh to the bank. Is he going to pan out? Heck if I know. But you don't just dump a guy with his potential early in his second year on a rookie salary.

That right there is a classic example of the gamblers dilemma. Just because you value his position and his draft status doesn't mean that he has value. Also, Adams had a pretty dang good rookie year and an alright 2nd year - it was not as bad as may people like to remember it was, it just didn't live up to his 2nd year expectations. Spriggs has literally regressed - he went from really bad as a rookie to horrific as a 2nd year guy, so your cry for legitimacy by citing Adams is hollow. Lastly, no OL hungry team is going to look to Spriggs - a guy who has shown nothing but tape of him being utterly unable to play his position. Does he need time to develop further? Obviously, yes. Does it look like he will develop into anything resembling a reasonable starter at this time? There is no answer except a resounding "no." Give him more time? Yes. Expect pretty much anything at all from him at this stage? Nope.

 

[thisisnate]

Bad rookie season to "horrific" second season... which hasn't even started. Yeah, I'll definitely continue to take you seriously.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Bad rookie season to "horrific" second season... which hasn't even started. Yeah, I'll definitely continue to take you seriously.

Thank you, I appreciate that. It's nice to be able to have in depth conversations with folks who are so courteous and well reasoned with their arguments.

 

[Carl]

Even so, he looked really bad. Run blocking was a factor, and I'm not selling low on Williams at all - it's his second preseason game, and he barely got workin his first after all - but there were a ton of running yards left on the field by our new rookie RB. Not what I was hoping to see. Still optimistic and patient with him, though.


Is he still eligible for the PS? If so, aint NOBODY snatching him up off of it. I'd rather open up a slot for a different developmental guy. Spriggs didn't even look athletic or promising or anything, he just looked bad and bad and bad.

Yes, he is eligible.

He has been bad, but a 2nd round pick would be claimed by someone else before making the practice squad based on potential alone.

The kicker the Bucs just cut was a good example. He was picked up despite being awful.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

He has been bad, but a 2nd round pick would be claimed by someone else before making the practice squad based on potential alone.

The kicker the Bucs just cut was a good example. He was picked up despite being awful.

It certainly is possible, but I'm still not sure it isn't a good path of action. In the end, it would depend upon how our other developmental guys look, and how many guys the FO wanted to keep on the 53. If we are letting somebody else who is more developmentally advanced go just because we don't want to lose out on a 2nd rounder who probably shouldn't have been one and has not shown anything worth keeping him, I'd rather they go with the other dudes - if somebody like Patrick or Gray (presuming they would be two of those names) looks better.

And, if Spriggs gets taken by another team, best of luck to him and them.

 

[Sky King]

Patience? At this early juncture of his career cutting him seems quite premature. A 2nd round pick should not struggle like some UDFA, but which T on the roster is ready right now to cover the swing T spot without being a reach?

Tackle is one of the most valued positions in the NFL. There's not a surplus of talent at T that TT just simply goes out and takes his pick of all the qualified FA backups that are available now or after cutdown to fill the roster. Spriggs is an unexpected project whom apparently needs more time to develop. Hopefully, it will happen here.

 

[Mondio]

I didn't get to see this last game outside of an offense and defensive series early on, so I don't know how good or bad he looked on Saturday. He looked pretty bad week 1 I remember. That said, he was a 2nd rounder, and with good reason at the time. He was fairly highly praised at the time by everyone. Fans and experts alike. They're all drafted in potential. Maybe he becomes what they thought, or maybe he doesn't.

I doubt they quit on him this early unless there is something we don't know about. Otherwise guys take time. Maybe it's mental, maybe it's physical, maybe it's a combination. I don't know, but they saw a lot to like. My guess is they'll try and get it right in the field before they say enough.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Patience? At this early juncture of his career cutting him seems quite premature. A 2nd round pick should not struggle like some UDFA, but which T on the roster is ready right now to cover the swing T spot without being a reach?

Tackle is one of the most valued positions in the NFL. There's not a surplus of talent at T that TT just simply goes out and takes his pick of all the qualified FA backups that are available now or after cutdown to fill the roster. Spriggs is an unexpected project whom apparently needs more time to develop. Hopefully, it will happen here.

if you're referring to the quote of me by Carl, he cut a bit out. The patience remark was for Williams. As for Spriggs, I have said multiple times that I agree he needs another year before we determine if we just part ways with him, but I simply disagree with the majority here as to whether we could work him to the PS. I fully expect the team to keep him on the 53 - and If I had drafted him and my job as a scout and personnel guy were on the line, I'd keep him too - but I am highly dubious as to whether he merits a spot on the 53 right now, and am more optimistic than others that he would make it to the PS. I think this is the inverse of the "we can't cut Xth string WR, every other team will snap him up off our PS because all of our WRs are amazing" homer line of thinking. The guy is playing just like garbage right now, and while I sure hope he turns it around I doubt the idea that other teams will snap him up just because he was drafted highly by us.

 

[Sky King]

if you're referring to the quote of me by Carl, he cut a bit out. The patience remark was for Williams. As for Spriggs, I have said multiple times that I agree he needs another year before we determine if we just part ways with him, but I simply disagree with the majority here as to whether we could work him to the PS. I fully expect the team to keep him on the 53 - and If I had drafted him and my job as a scout and personnel guy were on the line, I'd keep him too - but I am highly dubious as to whether he merits a spot on the 53 right now, and am more optimistic than others that he would make it to the PS. I think this is the inverse of the "we can't cut Xth string WR, every other team will snap him up off our PS because all of our WRs are amazing" homer line of thinking. The guy is playing just like garbage right now, and while I sure hope he turns it around I doubt the idea that other teams will snap him up just because he was drafted highly by us.

Not about Williams. Sorry about the confusion. My comment was not directed at any post in particular.

Good tackles are just so hard to come by, which helps to explain why they dealt two picks to move-up nine spots for Spriggs. As bad as he's looked it's way too early to give-up on him IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Even so, he looked really bad. Run blocking was a factor, and I'm not selling low on Williams at all - it's his second preseason game, and he barely got workin his first after all - but there were a ton of running yards left on the field by our new rookie RB.

I don´t agree that Williams left a ton of rushing yards on the field as the offensive line struggled mightily opening up holes for him.

How can you even try to legitimize that given how he has looked? Just because of how highly he was drafted? Dude has looked like pure garbage with zero upside since he entered the NFL. I'm all about giving him time to develop and being patient with OL development, but dude does not in any way merit a roster spot at this stage 2nd year pro, and looking like a UDFA in tryouts.

It´s true that Spriggs has looked horrible during his short tenure with the Packers but most likely another team would pick him up off waivers based on potential if Thompson tries to stash him on the practice squad.

Patience? At this early juncture of his career cutting him seems quite premature. A 2nd round pick should not struggle like some UDFA, but which T on the roster is ready right now to cover the swing T spot without being a reach?

Kyle Murphy seems to perform on a higher level than Spriggs at the moment. It´s questionable whether he can move to the left side though.

That said, he was a 2nd rounder, and with good reason at the time. He was fairly highly praised at the time by everyone. Fans and experts alike. They're all drafted in potential. Maybe he becomes what they thought, or maybe he doesn't.

Unfortunately Spriggs being highly regarded before the 2016 draft means diddly-squat if he doesn´t significantly improve immediately.

 

[PikeBadger]

Not about Williams. Sorry about the confusion. My comment was not directed at any post in particular.

Good tackles are just so hard to come by, which helps to explain why they dealt two picks to move-up nine spots for Spriggs. As bad as he's looked it's way too early to give-up on him IMO.

Not really. Of course, Thompson was lucky that he had Bakhtiari fall into his lap.

 

[mradtke66]

He immediately falls back on his heels and waits for the def. end to either bull rush and run him over or circle around him on either side.

Thats kind of offensive tackle 101 though and how you setup a pocket.

And he does not seem to know what to do with his hands.

No arguments there. Completely different skill levels, but his (lack of) hand placement reminds me of a guy I played high school ball with. He just couldn't or wouldn't grasp the concept of keeping his hands up and tight to deliver a blow.

He also seems to be playing with heavy feet or ploddingly or pick your metaphor. Something about his footwork or weight transfer is just off. Like he can't quickly shift or adjust.

 

[Sky King]

Not really. Of course, Thompson was lucky that he had Bakhtiari fall into his lap.

If TT really thought Bakhtiari was going to turn out this good this soon I'll gladly chip-in for a statue of him for the atrium and the scout that found him, too. Pure genius if true.

 

[gopkrs]

Thats kind of offensive tackle 101 though and how you setup a pocket.



No arguments there. Completely different skill levels, but his (lack of) hand placement reminds me of a guy I played high school ball with. He just couldn't or wouldn't grasp the concept of keeping his hands up and tight to deliver a blow.

He also seems to be playing with heavy feet or ploddingly or pick your metaphor. Something about his footwork or weight transfer is just off. Like he can't quickly shift or adjust.

Yes, you are right about 101. It is just that constantly he is ineffective at it. I hope it is in the teaching and they will have someone else take a crack at showing him how to do it. And it still makes him suspect in my mind about whether he could play guard. Although he would not need to be quite as quick. He is just so passive.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My favorite quote on Spriggs....and I can't recall who said it: "He looks like he is playing patty cake out there".

This article also sums up Spriggs pretty well, at least to this point in his career.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/21/whats-wrong-with-packers-ot-jason-spriggs/

 

[mradtke66]

And it still makes him suspect in my mind about whether he could play guard. Although he would not need to be quite as quick. He is just so passive.

He wasn't terrible at guard last year. It is possible he's more "guard brained" and just feels lost at OT. Not unlike Whale, but manifesting different. Whale tended to be overaggressive and would get exposed. Maybe Spriggs is trying overly hard to let the rush come to him?

I don't necessarily think he's passive, he's just got bad feet, like he get's to a spot and sets them in concrete. And countermoves start working. And then he lunges, so those counter moves work even better.

I'm really at a loss as to what's not working for him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Any chance this guy played "juiced" at Indiana and then gave it up for fear of being caught? Hate to say it, but he reminds me a bit of Tony Mandarich.

 

[gopkrs]

I'll have to take credit? for the patty cake comment.

 

[Sky King]

Any chance this guy played "juiced" at Indiana and then gave it up for fear of being caught? Hate to say it, but he reminds me a bit of Tony Mandarich.

Not an impossibility. You know it goes on, just not who's doing it for sure until they're finally caught. Hopefully, he's not one of them but merely a guy who needs more time to develop.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not an impossibility. You know it goes on, just not who's doing it for sure until they're finally caught. Hopefully, he's not one of them but merely a guy who needs more time to develop.

We can only hope it's a case if needing more time to develop for sure. Doubt we will ever hear the candid truth from MM, TT, Campen or anyone else, but I doubt any of them are too happy with his progress thus far, especially considering the cost to draft him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, you are right about 101. It is just that constantly he is ineffective at it. I hope it is in the teaching and they will have someone else take a crack at showing him how to do it. And it still makes him suspect in my mind about whether he could play guard. Although he would not need to be quite as quick. He is just so passive.

Campen has been a pretty good position coach over the past few years, developing several mid round picks into bona fide starters.

He wasn't terrible at guard last year.

I wasn't impressed with Spriggs at any point last season either as he struggled in limited snaps in 2016 as well.