Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

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Voyageur

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Love him or hate him, Barry is at least here until the end of this season, and if they continue playing defense like they have most recently, he's probably going to be offered a two-year contract for 24 & 25. If they flounder, and the defense gives up a lot of points, he's probably going to be gone.

In my opinion, for what's worth, and probably nothing, he should be dumped as soon as this season is over, and they should rebuild the defense. As it is, they've been dropping down in to a 4 man line for a while now, and it seems to be effective.
 

milani

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Love him or hate him, Barry is at least here until the end of this season, and if they continue playing defense like they have most recently, he's probably going to be offered a two-year contract for 24 & 25. If they flounder, and the defense gives up a lot of points, he's probably going to be gone.

In my opinion, for what's worth, and probably nothing, he should be dumped as soon as this season is over, and they should rebuild the defense. As it is, they've been dropping down in to a 4 man line for a while now, and it seems to be effective.
And wouldn't you know it. He goes 3 man and Mahommes burns him on a 3rd and 18.
 

BrokenArrow

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Love him or hate him, Barry is at least here until the end of this season, and if they continue playing defense like they have most recently, he's probably going to be offered a two-year contract for 24 & 25. If they flounder, and the defense gives up a lot of points, he's probably going to be gone.

In my opinion, for what's worth, and probably nothing, he should be dumped as soon as this season is over, and they should rebuild the defense. As it is, they've been dropping down in to a 4 man line for a while now, and it seems to be effective.
We're currently 9th best in points allowed. Not sure you fire a guy when you're 9th in that category.
 

Pkrjones

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Took a look at footballdb.com team defense rankings thru 12 games, the Packers rank:
9 pts allowed, 30 rushing yards, 10 pass yds.
For comparison purposes:
2019 - 9, 23, 14
2015- 12, 21, 6
2011 - 19, 14, 32
2007 - 11, 14, 12
2003 - 17, 10, 23
1999 - 22, 23, 18
Over numerous GM's, HC's, Assistants, & 3 stud QB's (that's Awesome!) we haven't had a consistently dominant D. Barry seems to be equal or better than most we've had. Unless MLF has a sure-fire, ringer of a D Coord in mind he could do a lot worse, IMHO.
 

milani

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Took a look at footballdb.com team defense rankings thru 12 games, the Packers rank:
9 pts allowed, 30 rushing yards, 10 pass yds.
For comparison purposes:
2019 - 9, 23, 14
2015- 12, 21, 6
2011 - 19, 14, 32
2007 - 11, 14, 12
2003 - 17, 10, 23
1999 - 22, 23, 18
Over numerous GM's, HC's, Assistants, & 3 stud QB's (that's Awesome!) we haven't had a consistently dominant D. Barry seems to be equal or better than most we've had. Unless MLF has a sure-fire, ringer of a D Coord in mind he could do a lot worse, IMHO.
Be interesting to see 2010 with all the injuries. 1999 was Ray Rhodes who was supposed to be a defensive expert. Interesting that 2007 looks like the most balanced. We had a 4-3 defense then and went 13-3 losing twice to the Bears. Our defense did its darnedest to stop the Giants in the championship game but our offense could not move the football much in those arctic conditions. And 2003 the best against the run.
 

rmontro

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Our defense did its darnedest to stop the Giants in the championship game but our offense could not move the football much in those arctic conditions.
One of the things that ticks me off the most is losing to the Giants in the playoffs twice at Lambeau. I guess there's some small comfort that both those Giant teams went on to win the Super Bowl, so you can say we lost to the best team.
 

Half Empty

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Be interesting to see 2010 with all the injuries. 1999 was Ray Rhodes who was supposed to be a defensive expert. Interesting that 2007 looks like the most balanced. We had a 4-3 defense then and went 13-3 losing twice to the Bears. Our defense did its darnedest to stop the Giants in the championship game but our offense could not move the football much in those arctic conditions. And 2003 the best against the run.
2010

2nd in points, 5th in passing yards, 18th in rushing yards
 

milani

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One of the things that ticks me off the most is losing to the Giants in the playoffs twice at Lambeau. I guess there's some small comfort that both those Giant teams went on to win the Super Bowl, so you can say we lost to the best team.
And those Giant teams beat Brady twice. And they were not even one of the top seeds going into the postseason. Just had a terrific head coach.
 

rmontro

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And those Giant teams beat Brady twice. And they were not even one of the top seeds going into the postseason. Just had a terrific head coach.
Seems like those Giants teams were either mediocre or they won the Super Bowl. Meanwhile, we were good year after year but couldn't seem to break through. Both the Giants and the Packers have four Super Bowl wins though.
 

BrokenArrow

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Only if you're continually willing to sacrifice the offense in the draft to constantly give Barry the first and second rounders he needs to have a good defense.
Show me a good defense that doesn't have a lot of first and second round picks on the roster. And in what world has our offense been "sacrificed?" They're looking pretty damn good against two very good defenses over the last 2 weeks. Appears to me you just have an axe to grind and you're dead set on grinding it come hell or high water.
 
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Pkrjones

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there is no way Barry should stay...theyre 6-6...
Which young, aggressive, sure-fire D Coord is out there to hire? Anyone decently hungry & qualified becomes an Asst or HC in college for better $. Would love Jim Leonhard but he may see 3x the $$ if he can land a decent NCAA HC gig.
 
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Sunshinepacker

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Show me a good defense that doesn't have a lot of first and second round picks on the roster. And in what world has our offense been "sacrificed?" They're looking pretty damn good against two very good defenses over the last 2 weeks. Appears to me you just have an axe to grind and you're dead set on grinding it come hell or high water.

The Packers have had the MOST for a couple of seasons running and Barry has finally moved into above-average, not eilte. Those other defenses are also still good without the GM sacrificing the offense in the draft. I don't get the point of having a DC that requires more help than any other DC in the league to just be top-10 (but not top-7). Look, Barry has done well this season considering the injuries and losses at CB and S...that doesn't just wipe out a career of being awful as a DC acrosss multiple teams.
 

BrokenArrow

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The Packers have had the MOST for a couple of seasons running and Barry has finally moved into above-average, not eilte. Those other defenses are also still good without the GM sacrificing the offense in the draft.

But your entire premise here is faulty because I fail to see where our offense has been "sacrificed" as you claim. On the contrary, our historically young offense is playing VERY well over the last month and has been steadily improving all year. We don't even know how high the ceiling is for these guys. So again, how has the offense been sacrificed? Unless you value where guys were drafted over the actual results of the draft.

I don't get the point of having a DC that requires more help than any other DC in the league to just be top-10 (but not top-7).

Do you have solid data to back up this claim? Because I'm not seeing any kind of objective analysis here. What criteria are you using to define "help?" I know there are a lot of teams out there who have spent WAY more money in the defensive free agent market than we have. Does that not qualify as help? I mean, again, it seems like you're more concerned about the draft than you are with the product.

Look, Barry has done well this season considering the injuries and losses at CB and S...that doesn't just wipe out a career of being awful as a DC acrosss multiple teams.

So current events don't count, right? Guys are not allowed to learn, grow and improve and if they do it is to be assumed that it's all imaginary or it's because of a few first day draft picks. Got it.
 

milani

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But your entire premise here is faulty because I fail to see where our offense has been "sacrificed" as you claim. On the contrary, our historically young offense is playing VERY well over the last month and has been steadily improving all year. We don't even know how high the ceiling is for these guys. So again, how has the offense been sacrificed? Unless you value where guys were drafted over the actual results of the draft.



Do you have solid data to back up this claim? Because I'm not seeing any kind of objective analysis here. What criteria are you using to define "help?" I know there are a lot of teams out there who have spent WAY more money in the defensive free agent market than we have. Does that not qualify as help? I mean, again, it seems like you're more concerned about the draft than you are with the product.



So current events don't count, right? Guys are not allowed to learn, grow and improve and if they do it is to be assumed that it's all imaginary or it's because of a few first day draft picks. Got it.
I think what he is inferring is that whether Barry or Petine or Capers over the last 10-12 drafts how many no. 1 and 2 picks have been offensive players. Most have been on defense because that is where the need has been. Yet over all those years the Packers have had a better if not much better offense than defense. It is what it is. I remember Bryan Bulaga as a no. 1 pick and it paid off.
 

BrokenArrow

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I think what he is inferring is that whether Barry or Petine or Capers over the last 10-12 drafts how many no. 1 and 2 picks have been offensive players. Most have been on defense because that is where the need has been. Yet over all those years the Packers have had a better if not much better offense than defense. It is what it is. I remember Bryan Bulaga as a no. 1 pick and it paid off.
I get that and all but the implication was that our offense has been somehow sacrificed because of those draft picks. Hogwash to that. Like you said, it's where the need was and that is perfectly understandable because when your cap is heavily invested on the offensive side of the ball, you lose a lot of free agents on the other side and you have no choice but to replenish through the draft.
 

milani

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I get that and all but the implication was that our offense has been somehow sacrificed because of those draft picks. Hogwash to that. Like you said, it's where the need was and that is perfectly understandable because when your cap is heavily invested on the offensive side of the ball, you lose a lot of free agents on the other side and you have no choice but to replenish through the draft.
Over the earlier decade the Packers heavily invested in 3 players: Rodgers, Jordy Nelson, and Clay Matthews. 2 were on offense. And even with Matthews on the defense they failed to use him properly. As someone alluded they used 3 man rushes with him being the one double teamed and the QB had all day to find someone.
 

Dantés

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Some telling team stats on Barry's defense:

Pts/Game: 20.3 (9th)

Pts/Drive: 1.90 (18th)

Yds/Play: 5.2 (15th)

Net Yds/Pass: 5.8 (9th)

Yds/Rush: 4.5 (27th)

3rd Down Def: 41.4% (24th)

RZ TD Def: 48.8% (8th)

On the surface, Barry's defense appears to be above average (9th in points allowed). However, that's somewhat misleading because the Packers' defense tends to see fewer drives than others (their 125 drives against is 3rd fewest in the league). On a per-play and per-drive basis, they're average.

They're bad on 3rd downs, but good in the red-zone.

Like it or not, the philosophy of this defense involves protecting against the explosive play at the cost of allowing easy yards. Let teams march down the field and then force field goals. It's a frustrating style to watch because it feels soft (and in a lot of ways, it is). But he isn't going anywhere any time soon.
 

rmontro

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On the surface, Barry's defense appears to be above average (9th in points allowed). However, that's somewhat misleading because the Packers' defense tends to see fewer drives than others (their 125 drives against is 3rd fewest in the league).
Is this due to MLF's offensive philosophy?
 
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