Rocky11
Superbowl bound Pack
We need to make up a politically correct name so nobody will be offended, maybe Favre dislikers or Favre disagreeers, or unable to forgive Farve or anti Farve or etc, etc,etc.
Farve on Rodgers
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TJV
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Not "politically correct" but how about just accurate? And while you're at it, you may want to consider terms for your side too: Favre "lovers", "likers", "forgivers", or those "unable to remember what Favre did", etc, etc, etc.?
Rocky11
Superbowl bound Pack
That's the difference between you and me. I care zero what you call me. There will always be people who like and dislike Favre and it don't matter what you call them. All the "Favre haters" is is a way to identify what side of the aisle you are on. It is not meant as a way to isolate you or your opinion. It is actually kind of funny to me that people are still so emotional about the whole thing.
TJV
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OK Rocky11, we'll mark you down as a Favre ball washer. 
I'm upset with what he became after he didn't have his Dad to whom he had to amswer. But heck, the mere fact that he is still being discussed on almost every Packer forum ought to at least demonstrate he has some creds.
Me? I'm still a big Bart Starr fan.
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Me? I'm still a big Bart Starr fan.
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13 Times Champs
Cheesehead
I don't know that his father had a lot of control over his personna but I agree with the rest of your post.
Glad to see you posting again.
Rocky11
Superbowl bound Pack
Hey if that floats your boat, have at it. What I am is a football fan and I am smart enough to recognize a good player when I see him. You can't say that Favre wasn't a good player. He may act like a fool off the field but that is his problem not mine.OK Rocky11, we'll mark you down as a Favre ball washer.
Of course some of us started to pay attention to Favre's eroding attitude, despite the local media barely touching upon the subjects, as far back as 2005. His threat that he may not return if Sherman is let go because he didn't want to learn a new playbook. The "cut me?" comment in 2006, while small, certainly gave notice as to his attitude. The "trade me" declaration in 2007 when Moss wasn't signed. There was 3 full years of jackassery before 2008 even rolled around. But, again, the Cliff Christl's and the Tom Silversteins and the Bob McGinn's of the local media barely even acknowledged such events occurred. I guess they were too busy with compiling the lists of free agents the Packers were supposed to sign to keep Favre happy. Favre himself gives the recap of his "mistrust" of Thompson going back to 2005 during those Greta interviews. So, and not directly attacking the OP, there is a distinct division in attitude toward Favre depending on how much one decided to pay attention. It is pretty clear that Favre believed he was supposed to have been the de facto GM of the team and when he wasn't allowed to his attitude declined every year, so that even after an inspiring season as 2007, Favre couldn't get enough spark to continue playing, at least not for the Packers, and perhaps found a spark with the notion of playing against the Packers.
This may be seen as just another rehash, but there's a point - the degree that people over credited Favre for the good years, along with a filtering out of his behavior for several years by either ignoring it altogether or letting it roll off due to Favre's Legendary Status, leaves a schism in perspective and the facts one has on hand for their opinion. The result is this - I am more than ready to move on from Favre as it his no bearing on the future, but there are still plenty of folks who insist on berating those who honestly dislike Favre and have good reason to. So long as I routinely find attacks against "Favre haters", I will defend. It may be tedious to some, but then the internet isn't filled with only things I prefer either.
So long as there are people who believe that Favre was the greatest QB ever, saved the franchise from The Dark Years, single handedly won the Super Bowl, had every right to regard himself as the de facto GM (or simply redact the facts from their ledger), and that going to a division rival for the express purpose of sticking it to the Packers was somehow just Ted Thompson so wasn't that bad, and then use this fantastical perspective (which they are welcome to have in the quiet enjoyment of their own lives) to then point their shaking, righteous finger at folks who remember the years of struggle early on, the multiple chances offered, the quality GM'ing, coaching, scheming, playing on the team beyond Favre, can acknowledge that once Favre stopped throwing the ball to the other team he played great on an equally great team, who then ratcheted down to a decade of Tony Romo-esque play of regular seasons of varying quality (on teams of varying quality assuredly) and bad to terrible post-seasons, was on average a Jim Kelly caliber QB (no disrespect for that level whatsoever) and then began a systematic, public string of whining, complaining, smart mouthing, and ultimatums starting in 2005 culminating in the "retirement" and Divorce, which then led him to deduce that HE had been wronged and legacy burning revenge was the only solution, and attacking the Packers as a consequence is about as bad as it gets, I will provide a counterpoint.
Really, it's not about Favre per se, it's the battle between fantasy and reality regardless of the underlying particulars. There still so many people who exist in a world where Favre is to get all the credit for Packer successes the last 20 years and did little or nothing wrong, and so are mystified at "Favre hater" attitudes. And when you address their fantasies, and hem them in with facts, then they quickly revert to "he was fun to watch" and "you live in your mother's basement" responses, at which point you know you've pretty much won the argument. But wherever there is a breakdown between reality and fantasy, there will be the protracted arguments that don't seem to have a resolution, and that applies to politics, religion, and Brett Favre.
It's simply the reality based attitude that Jim Kelly couldn't have thrown the Bills under the bus and gone to the Dolphins to "stick it" to the Bills without, logically, a goodly portion of the fan base disliking him for it. So long as there are people who will use their fantastically over-hyped framework to ignore Favre's downside, and - based on their fantasies - remonstrate those who dislike him, there will debate.
I don't know that his father had a lot of control over his personna but I agree with the rest of your post.
Glad to see you posting again.
I've been posting. Just in another area of the forums.
Plus things came up that kept me busy for a while. Believe it or not I have a life outside the Internet.As for Favre's Dad, I was thinking about how he said he would talk to his Dad every week of the season and his Dad would critique him. He did wan't to get chewed out by his Dad.
But as you said, we don't know how much that affected him. I personally thought he got kind of "wing-nuttier" after his Dad was gone.
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Rocky11
Superbowl bound Pack
toolkein, the thing I find about all of this Favre like and dislike frankly amuses me. I can't help but laugh to see how emotional people get over this stupid thing. I was originally a pretty big fan of his because I thought he was good for the Packers. It was a long time between winning years and I am first and foremost a Packers fan. I was very happy that we finally were getting some respect from broadcasters, other teams and other fans. His last few years in the league were obviously not his best. His true personality was leaking all over the place but I still enjoyed watching him play. You never knew if he was going to throw a touchdown or interception. He was always a cardiac kid to me. He made football exciting. When he left the Packers I was mad at him and the Packers. Right or wrong that was how I felt. I suffered a little emotional roller coaster ride for about 5 minutes. (not a literal 5 minutes but a short time.) It didn't take long to realize that Bret Favre had no way to impact my life personally so why was I grieving over someone that I don't know or will ever meet. The Packers still had a great team so all was well.
Then I discovered his web site and the forums over there. As I read the gushy goofy stuff people were writing about him it cracked me up. These people acted like he was some kind of god or something. I of course could not resist trying to point out that he was NOT god (small g) and ended up getting banned which was also funny to me. When I found this forum I was pleased that people here had sense. I still believe that about this forum. I have read many great posts. Smart intelligent people for the most part. I still think all of this Favre emotion is funny but it is not near to anything you would read on Favre's forum if you could still get on there and read something.
Keep posting my friends. This is a good place to get information and opinions. My advise is that we should all calm down about Bret Favre. I stopped letting him get to me and I am better off for it and I believe you will to.
Then I discovered his web site and the forums over there. As I read the gushy goofy stuff people were writing about him it cracked me up. These people acted like he was some kind of god or something. I of course could not resist trying to point out that he was NOT god (small g) and ended up getting banned which was also funny to me. When I found this forum I was pleased that people here had sense. I still believe that about this forum. I have read many great posts. Smart intelligent people for the most part. I still think all of this Favre emotion is funny but it is not near to anything you would read on Favre's forum if you could still get on there and read something.
Keep posting my friends. This is a good place to get information and opinions. My advise is that we should all calm down about Bret Favre. I stopped letting him get to me and I am better off for it and I believe you will to.
bozz_2006
Cheesehead
I ignored it until 2008, toolkien. Not proud of it. Not ashamed of it. I just did.
Rocky - But, again, it's not Favre himself, it's the righteousness by the Favre-La-La Landers of which there is still way too much. I don't go around muttering under my breath invectives against Favre, nor do I start threads to pick fights, or even if I see people ganging up on a Favre hater who obviously was once a Favre La-La Lander and emigrated only because Favre donned The Purple. I suppose one could simply shift the concept and replace "Favre getting to you" with "Favre Lovers getting to you" if it ALSO didn't perpetuate the myths about the Era itself. It angers me, right or wrong, that guys like Ahman Green can become the all time leading rusher/gainer from scrimmage in team history and it barely be acknowledged by anyone, particularly the local media and fans. How much the team, post-98, got run down by so many "packer fans" when the seasons would get washed out (and the fact that Favre had a composite 59.5 QB rating in the 6 washouts between '98 and '07 go un-examined). All the credit had to be reserved for Favre, there was ultimately failure, ergo everyone else had to take a lashing. And out of all this came an extremely distorted view of pretty much the entire Favre Era.
I suppose one can ask why that matters, but then my whole buy in into following a sports team has to have some unexplainable or justifiable component to it (perhaps my own La-La Land). The actual content of any sport is pretty silly if you stop and think about it - driving around in a circle for 5 hours to be right back where you started, hit a "rock" with a "stick" and try not to get caught of the safe zone thingy, or try and push an inflated bladder over a sector of grass. It's the competition and struggle that has meaning, struggling against adversity. And it is formed into an entertainment package that we can safely watch while drinking a beer, and so feel like we are overcoming our own struggles. But it has meaning, and has had for millennia since people went apes--t over charioteers.
So there's a whole lot involved, but it stands that Favre La-La Landers tend to get the whole narrative wrong on so many levels, and it is THAT that affects my enjoyment of our shared team. Favre doesn't affect me anymore, unless he says something else stupid, which is pretty rare. He's actually made mostly sense in those NFLN snippets. Some may say to let it go, but I am a firm believer in "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it". There is an emerging sector of fans who bury Favre TOO far and say that he never had a period like Rodgers, which is untrue, and I supply facts to back it up (and that there is then an over-hype beginning for Rodgers). I'm not anti-Favre, I am pro FACT, and therefore anti-Favre Lover. It IS a fact that I dislike Favre, but that is mostly put away. It's the people who continue to pound fantasy, for or against, or whatever. My mission is facts (and opinion based in fact) and there dispersion against fallacies (or least to debate variations in opinion based on fact versus NFL marketing over-hype).
What is lost in all the debates is the fact that the Packers are arguably the best team in the league the last 20 years. Favre was certainly a part of that, but not the whole, and he did his level best to destroy the enjoyment of his particular contribution. But, again, I sense a completely distorted appreciation of the last 20 years by a disturbingly large portion of the fan base and way too many people have been marginalized - in the front office, in the coaching/assistant coaching level, and the other players, particularly the record setting guys in the 2000's which has all but been erased. If it didn't involve Favre, it must not have happened, and it is that distortion that feeds the schism in the debate. So, once again, it's not Favre per se, but the assessment of the last 20 years, incorrectly, that leads to how to handle the fact that Favre was a major ****** the last six years of his career. Some may hate, some may not, but as long as it is judged in the blue sky, green grass world of reality I don't have near as big a problem than the asinine proclamations from those in the pink sky, purple grass world. And that's because that condition will continue on into to tomorrow, and god forbid it start the process all over again.
I suppose in some no small way, I simply don't want Rodgers getting the royal treatment so far out of proportion that we get right back where we started. I don't have a problem that stars/super stars get SOME cache, but the fan base and local media got so carried away with Favre that it pretty much created the environment that was 2008. If Favre had faced any criticism for his poor play, or faced some barrier when he began overstepping his bounds, then it all may have been avoided. But all that happened is people flooded message boards and asked why Thompson was trying to force Brett out when Favre decided to issue ultimatums. Or why when Favre proclaimed he didn't feel like learning new playbooks, the local media decided that articles about what the Packers have to do to keep Favre happy was the proper response. Let's not go that route again, then maybe we won't have Favre La-La Land on one side, and the foundation of a Rodgers La-La Land on the other. If Rodgers wants to end his career with a couple years in San Fran, just because, so be it. But if we create a monster that decides revenge while on the Bears is necessary, I don't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with it. I don't care if Rodgers helps win three more Super Bowls in a row, he's not above the Packers. Let's hope he's still around, still happy, come the 100th anniversary, and not a storm cloud on the horizon.
I suppose one can ask why that matters, but then my whole buy in into following a sports team has to have some unexplainable or justifiable component to it (perhaps my own La-La Land). The actual content of any sport is pretty silly if you stop and think about it - driving around in a circle for 5 hours to be right back where you started, hit a "rock" with a "stick" and try not to get caught of the safe zone thingy, or try and push an inflated bladder over a sector of grass. It's the competition and struggle that has meaning, struggling against adversity. And it is formed into an entertainment package that we can safely watch while drinking a beer, and so feel like we are overcoming our own struggles. But it has meaning, and has had for millennia since people went apes--t over charioteers.
So there's a whole lot involved, but it stands that Favre La-La Landers tend to get the whole narrative wrong on so many levels, and it is THAT that affects my enjoyment of our shared team. Favre doesn't affect me anymore, unless he says something else stupid, which is pretty rare. He's actually made mostly sense in those NFLN snippets. Some may say to let it go, but I am a firm believer in "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it". There is an emerging sector of fans who bury Favre TOO far and say that he never had a period like Rodgers, which is untrue, and I supply facts to back it up (and that there is then an over-hype beginning for Rodgers). I'm not anti-Favre, I am pro FACT, and therefore anti-Favre Lover. It IS a fact that I dislike Favre, but that is mostly put away. It's the people who continue to pound fantasy, for or against, or whatever. My mission is facts (and opinion based in fact) and there dispersion against fallacies (or least to debate variations in opinion based on fact versus NFL marketing over-hype).
What is lost in all the debates is the fact that the Packers are arguably the best team in the league the last 20 years. Favre was certainly a part of that, but not the whole, and he did his level best to destroy the enjoyment of his particular contribution. But, again, I sense a completely distorted appreciation of the last 20 years by a disturbingly large portion of the fan base and way too many people have been marginalized - in the front office, in the coaching/assistant coaching level, and the other players, particularly the record setting guys in the 2000's which has all but been erased. If it didn't involve Favre, it must not have happened, and it is that distortion that feeds the schism in the debate. So, once again, it's not Favre per se, but the assessment of the last 20 years, incorrectly, that leads to how to handle the fact that Favre was a major ****** the last six years of his career. Some may hate, some may not, but as long as it is judged in the blue sky, green grass world of reality I don't have near as big a problem than the asinine proclamations from those in the pink sky, purple grass world. And that's because that condition will continue on into to tomorrow, and god forbid it start the process all over again.
I suppose in some no small way, I simply don't want Rodgers getting the royal treatment so far out of proportion that we get right back where we started. I don't have a problem that stars/super stars get SOME cache, but the fan base and local media got so carried away with Favre that it pretty much created the environment that was 2008. If Favre had faced any criticism for his poor play, or faced some barrier when he began overstepping his bounds, then it all may have been avoided. But all that happened is people flooded message boards and asked why Thompson was trying to force Brett out when Favre decided to issue ultimatums. Or why when Favre proclaimed he didn't feel like learning new playbooks, the local media decided that articles about what the Packers have to do to keep Favre happy was the proper response. Let's not go that route again, then maybe we won't have Favre La-La Land on one side, and the foundation of a Rodgers La-La Land on the other. If Rodgers wants to end his career with a couple years in San Fran, just because, so be it. But if we create a monster that decides revenge while on the Bears is necessary, I don't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with it. I don't care if Rodgers helps win three more Super Bowls in a row, he's not above the Packers. Let's hope he's still around, still happy, come the 100th anniversary, and not a storm cloud on the horizon.
thomas28
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I think his responses to questions about Rodgers were fine. However, damn he looked like he aged 15 years since the last I saw him..
IluvGB
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Thats what deep rooted bitterness does to a body!
PackerChamps
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All this teeth gnashing for nothing.
Favre brought a SB chamionship to this town. He couldn't figure out what he wanted, messed around and ticked off the organization, they got tired of the run around and moved on.
Favre wanted revenge, got his attempt, failed.
And now he is retired.
Love him and I love Rodgers and I really the love the Pack.
August can't come soon enough.
Favre brought a SB chamionship to this town. He couldn't figure out what he wanted, messed around and ticked off the organization, they got tired of the run around and moved on.
Favre wanted revenge, got his attempt, failed.
And now he is retired.
Love him and I love Rodgers and I really the love the Pack.
August can't come soon enough.
It baffles me why any packer fan would still think positively of Favre. I'm sure lots of people wonder how others could dislike him so much too.
2 of my friends are divorced. One gets along great with his ex and wonders how anyone could hate someone they loved. The other only communicates with his ex through a lawyer he hates her so bad. Sounds pretty similar to me.
2 of my friends are divorced. One gets along great with his ex and wonders how anyone could hate someone they loved. The other only communicates with his ex through a lawyer he hates her so bad. Sounds pretty similar to me.
bozz_2006
Cheesehead
I don't still think positively of Favre. However, back in the day I thought he was awesome. And what he did in the later years doesn't erase how I felt about him prior to the douchebaggery.
I have a hard time thinking positively of him, however, I realize I have my shortcomings as well. I try to remember what an old friend told me about dealing with people; "Major on their assests. Minor on their liabilities." Maybe I should apply this to an athlete I've never personally met.
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Rocky11
Superbowl bound Pack
Toolkein - I loved your post. You are obviously intelligent and up on your facts. The thing that gets to me is the amount of emotion this topic stirs up in people. I guess I lived too much life that way myself. I used to be a die hard Ohio State fan. I got so worked up watching those games. I absolutely hated Michigan. If the truth be known I still have a strong dislike for them. I finally had to quit watching them or even following them for about 20 years. I just couldn't handle the emotional roller coaster ride. As time rolled on I realized that those kind of emotions are not to be spent on sports. I decided that athletes, movies stars and the like are people whom I will never meet or actually care for like they were part of my family. Those people are in this world to entertain me, nothing else. Since I have taken on this attitude I find that life is much simpler. I now watch Ohio State and I root hard for them but when they lose (seemingly always on a big game) I am unhappy but not devastated.
Now I know that is MY problem and what other people think is non of my business. But like a former alcoholic I guess I am an overboard evangelist. I admit I was a Favre la la lander for a while but now I really don't care. He is gone and Rodgers is the man now. I would like to see him reconcile with the Packers because I think his legacy will always be tied to them but time will tell about that. You are right, I am a Packer fan first. I have been watching them since I was 9 years old and I have always enjoyed the team. I am almost 57 now and I still love to watch them play.
Thanks for the great post.
Now I know that is MY problem and what other people think is non of my business. But like a former alcoholic I guess I am an overboard evangelist. I admit I was a Favre la la lander for a while but now I really don't care. He is gone and Rodgers is the man now. I would like to see him reconcile with the Packers because I think his legacy will always be tied to them but time will tell about that. You are right, I am a Packer fan first. I have been watching them since I was 9 years old and I have always enjoyed the team. I am almost 57 now and I still love to watch them play.
Thanks for the great post.
bozz_2006
Cheesehead
Great Post. I'm still young but I find myself in the same boat. I was (maybe still am) an over the top fan. It always kind of freaked my wife out. I realized I had to tone it down when I started scaring my son... I still love (or whatever the right word is. I'm not sure I can love something that can't love me back) the Packers just as much as ever. But at the end of the day, it's still just entertainment. I will let the Packers make my day but I won't let them ruin my day.
Darth Garfunkel
Cheesehead
I think thats key. As much as I love the Pack, it's best to keep all things that don't have a direct impact on your life at arm's length. I came to that realization once after a loss and I determined that I was more upset than they probably were because after all, even as losers that day they still got fat game day paychecks.
Rocky11
Superbowl bound Pack
"I will let the Packers make my day but I won't let them ruin my day." What a great line. You get an atta boy!
VersusTheMoose
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Who cares what the 3rd best QB in GB history thinks about the very best in GB history?
I wish we had a love button.
IluvGB
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I <3 this comment! (thats kind of a "love" button!) hehehehee
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