I'm not sure the year but I do remember, when GB didnt have a running game with Brett, we basically went shotgun and 5 wide the whole year until Ryan Grant came along. Fast forward, Every QB in the NFL is now in shotgun most of the game. Did we start the trend that year, seems like we did.
Did GB start the new NFL
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ARPackFan
Knock it off with them negative waves
The shotgun formation was around before the Super Bowl era. I believe it was the Cowboys of the 70's that first used the shotgun extensively. The biggest benefits of the shotgun is the QB does not require an initial drop-back and compensates for poor pass blocking.
LetzBreel
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I am pretty sure that QB's in the shotgun have been around for quite a while. I noticed that you have been a fan since 1985 so that explains it. I also realize that it also proves that I am an old man. Thanks.
PackinMSP
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He's talking about "5 wide" so an Empty Set, you guys should learn to read
To answer his question, I'm not sure. I know the Falcons in the 90s ran a "run and gun" type of offense that was similar
To answer his question, I'm not sure. I know the Falcons in the 90s ran a "run and gun" type of offense that was similar
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HardRightEdge
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There's more to it than poor pass blocking. The QB has a better view of the field pre-snap. Then he can get into passing position quicker. The snap to that 4-7 yard depth in pistol or shotgun is quicker than if the the QB backpedals to that depth from under center. Also from that depth his first take of the field after receiving the snap is squared up to the line of scrimmage, not cocked to the right (for right handed QBs) in a backpedal. Being squared up receiving the ball at depth provides better vision in the first couple 10th. of a second into the play and also puts him in a better body position for quick throws to the left side.
As for the spread/stack/bunch formations and route concepts common in todays game, the offense that sticks in my mind is the Houston run-and-shoot with Moon. While the staple offense was from under center, it was a 4 WR / single back set. This predated the era of the speedy slot TE; some seasons they didn't even have a TE on the roster. But if you look past that TE aspect where todays TEs out of the slot are just oversized WRs, those concepts which were considered gimicky at the time are staples today.
Though not a staple, that Moon offense would also run shotgun / empty backfield / 5 wide. And it's not like it is a staple for anybody today. You might see it a few snaps per game.
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He was talking about 2 different things and wasn't all that clear. Saying "We" went 5 wide until grant came long and now the rest of the league is in Shotgun all the time. he couldn't have meant they're all spread out in 5 wide all the time, because that is clearly not the case. Lots of shotgun, yes, lots of 5wide? not really.
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HardRightEdge
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The Jets used some long yardage shotgun when Namath's knees got really bad.
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HardRightEdge
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We'd probably call what Rodgers has been doing in the last couple of McCarthy years up to now as pistol more than shotgun. There are a lot of snaps at around 4 1/2 yard depth, give or take.
Wi. Mike now in Florida
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I remember when Favre hated the shotgun stance, but used it more in his later years.
weeds
Fiber deprived old guy.
My grade school team ran a "shotgun" formation loosely based on the Jets useage. So.. 1971 and 1972.
Imagine that? A grade school center that throw a perfect spiral from between his legs while hunched in snap mode. Of course, he only made it to Junior year before his brain was scrambled. Man, I miss that guy.
Imagine that? A grade school center that throw a perfect spiral from between his legs while hunched in snap mode. Of course, he only made it to Junior year before his brain was scrambled. Man, I miss that guy.
I had a convo with Sean Patterson about this very question. And his reply was Mike Holmgren wanted the shot gun
gbgary
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the Packers always had a running game with brett. they just didn't use it much as the wco was all about passing. during brett's early years they had vince workman, darrell thompson, edger bennett, dorsey levens, william henderson, ahman green, ryan grant...and HOF'ers travis jervey and samkon gado. many years they'd get 1000+ yards out of the two guys that did the bulk of their running. but yeah they used the shotgun a lot more than other teams.
That’s a very ...umm ... interesting perspective... not completely inaccurate... but also not exactly the way I remember it lol.
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HardRightEdge
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LambeauLombardi
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The Remember the Titans quote when the opponent lined up in 4 or 5 wide, 'who the hell do they think they are, the New York Jets?'
Pugger
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I'm an old lady so I can sympathize. lol
weeds
Fiber deprived old guy.
2011? Man, I have an ingrown hair older than that.
PackerfaninCarolina
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The Pats had been using that formation throughout most of Tom Brady's career going back to 2001. (Note to McDaniels fan boys no it wasn't with him) The mode of attack we were using in 2007 was very similar to theirs that same year. It sucks that Mike McCarthy abandoned it over the years.
PackerfaninCarolina
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For the record, Holmgren never used the shotgun. Check it. Mike Sherman did adopt it on occasion, but it really didn't become a staple here until McCarthy.
I always wondered why we stopped using it, when it was so effective for us at one time. I assumed McCarthy got away from it because he didn't think we had the talent to fit it, although others said that the league's defenses had figured it out.
ARPackFan
Knock it off with them negative waves
5 wide is just a variant on empty backfield formations / spread offense. Are the Packers the first to regularly use 5 true wide receivers in the NFL? Maybe, but I would be hesitant to make that claim as the NFL is a copy-cat league and I would bet there was a collage using 5 wide decades ago.
Get a copy of the SI book "Blood, Sweat and Chalk" and it will be a real eye-opener as to just how old some of these offensive schemes are.
Get a copy of the SI book "Blood, Sweat and Chalk" and it will be a real eye-opener as to just how old some of these offensive schemes are.
gbgary
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PackerfaninCarolina
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While I don't have the complete answer to that, I'm thinking MM was hoping to turn the offense into more ball control type as opposed to explosion plays. Hence Rodgers getting more upset with him as time went on.
That's understandable, but why not pull it out every now and then?
