Defense under Barry

XPack

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Sounds like we are getting someone to run same D as Petting but "to run it better".

Just looked up some old stats and opinion on Barry from his earlier DC stints and boy, they aren't pretty! :eek:

Detroit 2007: 7-9 | 2008: 0-16
Washington 2015: 9-7 | 2016: 8-7-1

The Redskins' defense ranked 28th in total yards allowed in each of Barry's two seasons as a coordinator....They haven't invested in the defense as heavily as they have on offense in recent years. But one source said they needed to decide whether problems with certain players stemmed more from coaching than just their own ability. And some in the organization wanted to see the defense simplify things and have the ability to play more aggressively.

Barry spent two years as a coordinator with the Detroit Lions, including during their 0-16 season. The Lions ranked last in both total yards and points per game in each season under Barry.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18413596/joe-barry-washington-redskins-defensive-coordinator
 

Dantés

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Sounds like we are getting someone to run same D as Petting but "to run it better".

Just looked up some old stats and opinion on Barry from his earlier DC stints and boy, they aren't pretty! :eek:

Detroit 2007: 7-9 | 2008: 0-16
Washington 2015: 9-7 | 2016: 8-7-1

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18413596/joe-barry-washington-redskins-defensive-coordinator

Negative.

They've hired Barry to install and run the defense that has been made prominent recently by Vic Fangio, and which was run in LA last year under Brandon Staley. It's not Pettine's defense.
 

Sunshinepacker

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So the five most recent teams/seasons to run this system were the 2020 Rams, 2020 Broncos, 2019 Broncos, 2018 Bears, 2017 Bears. Here are the edge players that have played 50+% of snaps in recent seasons in this defense:
  • Leonard Floyd, Rams, 2020: 89%, 10.5 sacks
  • Von Miller, Broncos, 2019: 79%, 8 sacks
  • Leonard Floyd, Bears, 2018: 75%, 4 sacks
  • Khalil Mack, Bears, 2018: 72%, 12.5 sacks
  • Bradley Chubb, Broncos, 2020: 68%, 7.5 sacks
  • Malik Reed, Broncos, 2020: 67%, 8 sacks
  • Sam Acho, Bears, 2017: 60%, 3 sacks
  • Leonard Floyd, Bears, 2017: 55%, 4.5 sacks
This is what makes me question Za'Darius' fit in the defense. I don't see anyone like him. More than half of his sack production has come as an interior rusher. If the defensive approach doesn't lend itself to doing so much of that, I don't know what you really have with him.

Maybe Barry will happily use him on the interior just as much. I just having seen it in this defense.

To be fair, only one of the guys on that list would be what I would consider an elite pass rusher in the years you have them listed. Z is better at rushing the QB than anyone listed outside of Mack.
 

Mondio

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Flat and boring. Very nice people though. Smells like pig crap everywhere.
It's not mountains and valleys, but NE IA is not flat and boring like everything west of there until you hit the foothills of the Rockies
 

Dantés

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To be fair, only one of the guys on that list would be what I would consider an elite pass rusher in the years you have them listed. Z is better at rushing the QB than anyone listed outside of Mack.

He is, but only if he used a lot as an interior rusher. Over half his sacks as a Packer have come inside the tackles. He's really not a highly effective edge rusher, per se.

With what seems like a great commitment to gap integrity in this defense, I wonder if there will be as many opportunities for him to play inside. Maybe there will be. I'm not claiming to know.
 

Poppa San

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It's not mountains and valleys, but NE IA is not flat and boring like everything west of there until you hit the foothills of the Rockies
Can't convince the wife to retire to the Turkey River valley. Got close relatives there and ancestors in some of the local cemeteries. Gorgeous area there or over by the Mississippi bluffs.
 

XPack

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Negative.

They've hired Barry to install and run the defense that has been made prominent recently by Vic Fangio, and which was run in LA last year under Brandon Staley. It's not Pettine's defense.

That's like saying MLF runs McVay's Offence, which frankly is not accurate at all.

Staley was the one who served under Fangio and even his Rams D, he keep the base of Wade Phillips 3-4, added in some Fangio elements as well as making his own changes to it....and this was what Barry was exposed to last year.
 

PackerDNA

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I read one thing recently that caused some concern. A lot of Savages success last season came closer to the line or in the slot. If they go with a two high safety look, that may take away from his strength and in effect have him starting over.
 

Dantés

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That's like saying MLF runs McVay's Offence, which frankly is not accurate at all.

Staley was the one who served under Fangio and even his Rams D, he keep the base of Wade Phillips 3-4, added in some Fangio elements as well as making his own changes to it....and this was what Barry was exposed to last year.

LaFleur and McVay do run two versions of the same essential offense. McVay has some different personnel preferences, but the core of the scheme is the same. LaFleur, McVay, Shanahan, Stefanski, Kubiak, etc. are all branches off of the same offensive tree.

Fangio and Phillips both use a 3-4 as their base defense (though they're hardly ever in base). So what you're saying about Staley "keeping" Wade Phillips' 3-4 makes no sense.

Of course Staley made him own adjustments to the defense. Just as any coach does. No one creates an exact facsimile of another system. But the basic scheme was Fangio's. This is well-documented. So it is far, far more reasonable to say that we hired a guy to install Fangio's system (which has actually been reported), rather than saying Barry is here "to run same D as Pettine."

Barry and Staley and Fangio might end up being different branches, but Barry and Pettine are different trees.
 

GleefulGary

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I read one thing recently that caused some concern. A lot of Savages success last season came closer to the line or in the slot. If they go with a two high safety look, that may take away from his strength and in effect have him starting over.
I would like to sign/draft another safety and play Savage more like Mathieu.
 

rdawsoniii

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Iowa isn’t flat and boring?! News to me.

The pig poo was a joke.
Some parts are flat, some aren’t.

If you think the bluffs of NE Iowa, the Loess Hills of western Iowa, and the rivers, woods, and green countryside are boring......then there’s no hope for you.
 

GleefulGary

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Some parts are flat, some aren’t.

If you think the bluffs of NE Iowa, the Loess Hills of western Iowa, and the rivers, woods, and green countryside are boring......then there’s no hope for you.

How about boring compared to living near mountains? I think that’s fair.
 

swhitset

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How about boring compared to living near mountains? I think that’s fair.
You are misinformed. I have been all over this country including those mountains you speak of. The Mississippi River Valley and those bluffs of NE Iowa, Eastern Minnesota and Western Wi are easily some of the most beautiful areas in the country.
 

Dantés

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There is an aspect of NE Iowa that completely captivates my soul.

It's so beautiful that I'm transported into a euphoric state, and I can't help but weep.

I'm speaking, of course, of their real estate prices.
 

mradtke66

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With what seems like a great commitment to gap integrity in this defense, I wonder if there will be as many opportunities for him to play inside. Maybe there will be. I'm not claiming to know.

I suspect there will be.

At 275, he's not small. Not optimal 3T size, but not far off either.

Your observation of him not being an optimal edge defender might just mean he sticks to the defensive left on run downs and slides to 3T on passing downs. Let Gary be the premier edge player--unless you have similar concerns about him?
 

Sunshinepacker

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I suspect there will be.

At 275, he's not small. Not optimal 3T size, but not far off either.

Your observation of him not being an optimal edge defender might just mean he sticks to the defensive left on run downs and slides to 3T on passing downs. Let Gary be the premier edge player--unless you have similar concerns about him?

Z and Gary are very similar in size and pass rush technique, so if Z isn't being utilized well in this new defense, then I'm not sure how Gary is going to be used either. If the DC can't figure out how to best use the two best pass rushers on the team, then the Packers are going to have HUGE issues next year.
 

mradtke66

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Z and Gary are very similar in size and pass rush technique, so if Z isn't being utilized well in this new defense, then I'm not sure how Gary is going to be used either. If the DC can't figure out how to best use the two best pass rushers on the team, then the Packers are going to have HUGE issues next year.

You're not wrong, but I personally see more traditional edge characteristics in Gary. Yes, both are big, strong guys who largely work off power, but (again, me) I perceive some subtle differences.

Z seems to win by having a suddenness that guards aren't typically able to handle. Dantés might be better to articulate it, but I think that is part of the reason he gets his sacks from 3T.

Gary seems to have that length and speed to threaten the corner more reliably. The sort of counter to tall offensive tackles.

This is not to say that Z doesn't have what Gary does or that Gary cannot do what Z does, but for all their similarities, I view them different.
 

Dantés

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Z and Gary are very similar in size and pass rush technique, so if Z isn't being utilized well in this new defense, then I'm not sure how Gary is going to be used either. If the DC can't figure out how to best use the two best pass rushers on the team, then the Packers are going to have HUGE issues next year.

Gary can rush inside, but he’s less dependent on doing so for a lot of his impact. Also, he’s a stouter defender at the POA than Z, so I think you could legit put him at the 4i and leave him there and he’d be good. I don’t really think that Z could do that.

For the one millionth time— the point is not that Barry could not use Z. It’s just a theory that he might not fit this design as much as he fit the last one.

So one, theories don’t always play out into reality.

And two, saying that they might be smart to capitalize on their value and reallocate resources =/= “there’s not a place for him.”
 

Dantés

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I suspect there will be.

At 275, he's not small. Not optimal 3T size, but not far off either.

Your observation of him not being an optimal edge defender might just mean he sticks to the defensive left on run downs and slides to 3T on passing downs. Let Gary be the premier edge player--unless you have similar concerns about him?

Za’Darius looks plenty big enough, but he hasn’t really played to his size in the running game.

Maybe that’s coaching points, and with more emphasis on gap integrity, he could do it.

If Barry wants to run the odd front with a stand up edge that characterized Staley’s defense, I don’t know where Z thrives unless it’s an obvious passing down.
 

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