Brian Gutenkunst FA and Draft Grades

[tynimiller]

Don’t know if this discussion happened before or after Seattle’s run but the job Schneider did in the last year to make it happen was masterful.

I am 100% weighing conference and Super Bowl championships when evaluating GMs. Not everyone will feel the same and that’s fine.

Yeah amended it to illustrate it being after. One guy said the last Super Bowl victor deserves it LOL....to which he quickly folded his hand when asked okay than you think Sam Darnold is the best QB in the league too? (he is a massive Mahomes fan)

 

[OldSchool101]

Don’t know if this discussion happened before or after Seattle’s run but the job Schneider did in the last year to make it happen was masterful.

I am 100% weighing conference and Super Bowl championships when evaluating GMs. Not everyone will feel the same and that’s fine.

What about playoff appearance frequency

 

[adambr2]

What about playoff appearance frequency

It matters, it’s a factor, of course, but championships are considerably higher as they should be.

14 out of 32 teams can say they made the playoffs. We are approaching NBA levels of dilution.

 

[CarryTheG14]

I would rank Schneider better for sure. Wolfe. Snead. Lynch, Veach. Probably Holmes and Gladstone.

Again, this is my subjective personal viewpoint and won’t be everyone’s.

Gladstone and Wolfe have only been there for one year
Why Brad Holmes? Guy hit on his premium picks for the most part. St. Brown being his biggest hit hit who is not a premium pick.
If you want to say Lynch, Schneider, Snead, Veach and Roseman I won't argue.

Gute is in the 5-8ish range. He's a fine GM and we're lucky to have him.

 

[adambr2]

Gladstone and Wolfe have only been there for one year
Why Brad Holmes? Guy hit on his premium picks for the most part. St. Brown being his biggest hit hit who is not a premium pick.
If you want to say Lynch, Schneider, Snead, Veach and Roseman I won't argue.

Gute is in the 5-8ish range. He's a fine GM and we're lucky to have him.

Why does it matter how long they’ve been there? Wolfe turned around a perennial loser and did in one season what Gute hasn’t done in eight. Why should he not be higher?

I think Gladstone and Holmes did very well with their coaching hires which is part of the job to me.

If you want to rank Gute in the 5-8 range that is totally fine with me. I don’t think it’s egregious. The devils advocate in me would ask if we have a top 5-8 GM why we aren’t finishing in the top 5-8 teams at the end of the season.

 

[OldSchool101]

It matters, it’s a factor, of course, but championships are considerably higher as they should be.

14 out of 32 teams can say they made the playoffs. We are approaching NBA levels of dilution.

14 of 32 teams CANNOT say they made the playoffs 71% of their GM tenure.

Only 3 GMs have won more regular season games than Brian Gute since 2018.

 

[CarryTheG14]

Why does it matter how long they’ve been there? Wolfe turned around a perennial loser and did in one season what Gute hasn’t done in eight. Why should he not be higher?

I think Gladstone and Holmes did very well with their coaching hires which is part of the job to me.

If you want to rank Gute in the 5-8 range that is totally fine with me. I don’t think it’s egregious. The devils advocate in me would ask if we have a top 5-8 GM why we aren’t finishing in the top 5-8 teams at the end of the season.

Because they only have one year on the job and not much of a resume...

 

[adambr2]

14 of 32 teams CANNOT say they made the playoffs 71% of their GM tenure.

Again, I do think it should be weighed and it’s an accomplishment. It’s just not on the level of winning a championship. I absolutely do think that’s also part of the evaluation process.

 

[adambr2]

Because they only have one year on the job and not much of a resume...

If we had fired Matt Lafleur after the season, hired Jeff Hafley, and he took us to the Super Bowl next year, every single one of us here would be calling him one of the best coaches in the NFL.

 

[OldSchool101]

Elgton Jenkins just got cut

@Tyni. Brian just worked teams for a pick swap like a Sugar Cane Jack A$!
Lol

Freed up $19.5Mil that’s all that matters. If my math is good, GB has $22-23Mil usable Cap (not including holding $5Mil+ contingency funds)

Good luck to Elgton!

 

[adambr2]

Elgton Jenkins just got cut

Whole lot of talent loss this offseason with not much in the way of cap space or draft capital to replace them.

 

[CarryTheG14]

If we had fired Matt Lafleur after the season, hired Jeff Hafley, and he took us to the Super Bowl next year, every single one of us here would be calling him one of the best coaches in the NFL.

No, he'd be the best coach for that year.

Matthew Stafford was the best QB this year. He's not a better QB than Josh Allen.

There's WAY more factors than who was the best this year.

 

[adambr2]

No, he'd be the best coach for that year.

Matthew Stafford was the best QB this year. He's not a better QB than Josh Allen.

There's WAY more factors than who was the best this year.

Yeah I just don’t agree. I don’t think you need a certain amount of longevity to be considered one of the best.

So Coen and Ben Johnson can’t be considered great HCs? How many years do they need first?

 

[CarryTheG14]

Yeah I just don’t agree. I don’t think you need a certain amount of longevity to be considered one of the best.

So Coen and Ben Johnson can’t be considered great HCs? How many years do they need first?

Yes. They had a great year, congrats to them.

Being great or the top of their field is more concrete than fickle. It shouldn't be determined based on one year.

You said Brad Holmes was better than Gute, well his team missed the play-offs. Judging by your metrics, he shouldn't be anywhere near the top 5 GMs.

 

[adambr2]

Yes. They had a great year, congrats to them.

Being great or the top of their field is more concrete than fickle. It shouldn't be determined based on one year.

You said Brad Holmes was better than Gute, well his team missed the play-offs. Judging by your metrics, he shouldn't be anywhere near the top 5 GMs.

Okay, then you’re not really calling Gute a top 5-8 GM. You’re calling him a top 5-8 GM out of the 15-20 GMs that you even deem experienced enough to be eligible to be ranked.

Well, I don’t have Holmes in my top 5 either

But he did a hell of a job turning around the Lions who were a perennial dumpster fire and changing the culture there. So that’s definitely weighted heavily into his evaluation.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If we had fired Matt Lafleur after the season, hired Jeff Hafley, and he took us to the Super Bowl next year, every single one of us here would be calling him one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Good example. Just counting wins is not the best way to evaluate a GM or HC. I'm interested in the guys who have won SBs, or taken their teams to a SB.

The last time the Packers sniffed a SB appearance ended in 2014 in the horrific loss to the hags. Theb team has won plenty of games and I'm not complaining about that.

But there is a key difference between a perennial playoff team and a SB team. Last year, I think Gluten went for that "key piece" in the trade for Parsons. There was no way to anticipate the extent of injuries, including Parsons. Gluten is on the right path IMO.

 

[Heyjoe4]

No, he'd be the best coach for that year.

Matthew Stafford was the best QB this year. He's not a better QB than Josh Allen.

There's WAY more factors than who was the best this year.

Good point. A lot of things have to fall just right for a team to get to and win a SB. Ty has said this many times - it's hard enough to win a game in the NFL and exponentially harder to win it all.

Gluten went all in last year with the Parsons deal, and I loved the move, still do. Injuries got in the way big time, but the intent was to add a piece to a team to get them to the promised land. Once the injured players are back, and assuming the Packers don't suffer the same level of injuries as last year, the team will compete for a SB.

 

[tynimiller]

If we had fired Matt Lafleur after the season, hired Jeff Hafley, and he took us to the Super Bowl next year, every single one of us here would be calling him one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Yes and no, I don’t christen people so knee jerk style though and never have. For sure a lot would no doubt tho.

 

[adambr2]

One thing I’ve noticed is that Packer fans feel almost unanimously that going out and getting Parsons is the right move. When I see posts from fans of other teams, it seems like they almost all say things like “you never give up that much for one non- QB player, it almost never works out.”

Not saying that I agree but just got me thinking — are there any good examples in history of a team going all in on a player and winning the Super Bowl off it?

 

[tynimiller]

One thing I’ve noticed is that Packer fans feel almost unanimously that going out and getting Parsons is the right move. When I see posts from fans of other teams, it seems like they almost all say things like “you never give up that much for one non- QB player, it almost never works out.”

Not saying that I agree but just got me thinking — are there any good examples in history of a team going all in on a player and winning the Super Bowl off it?

There were quite a few here that hesitated at the cost of it (Parsons move) both financially but draft capital and even DL hit it caused.

Many still understood it but for sure was a concern of many…

 

[adambr2]

There were quite a few here that hesitated at the cost of it (Parsons move) both financially but draft capital and even DL hit it caused.

Many still understood it but for sure was a concern of many…

Got it. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places, I feel like the deal was almost unanimously supported among Packer fans. I did support it, (still do), but also felt more wary than most that it could explode in our faces.

 

[tynimiller]

Got it. Maybe I’m not looking in the right places, I feel like the deal was almost unanimously supported among Packer fans. I did support it, (still do), but also felt more wary than most that it could explode in our faces.

Oh on the whole for sure you’re right, BUT most of those didn’t even know the finances part or will be made day 1 of the draft this year when they get pissed Gute doesn’t have a first round pick lol

That is the large portion of fan bases that are the worst lol

 

[Heyjoe4]

One thing I’ve noticed is that Packer fans feel almost unanimously that going out and getting Parsons is the right move. When I see posts from fans of other teams, it seems like they almost all say things like “you never give up that much for one non- QB player, it almost never works out.”

Not saying that I agree but just got me thinking — are there any good examples in history of a team going all in on a player and winning the Super Bowl off it?

Interesting question Adam. I'd argue the Packers did that when they got Reggie White, and then again when they got Charles Woodson. In both cases, the team won a SB. And in both cases, the team was very talented before the acquisition.

I'm not saying one player can win a SB. The player needs to be the missing piece on an already-talented team.

(There are probably more examples of a team giving up way too much for a player - like John Hadl and Herschel Walker, to name just two.)

 

[CarryTheG14]

Good point. A lot of things have to fall just right for a team to get to and win a SB. Ty has said this many times - it's hard enough to win a game in the NFL and exponentially harder to win it all.

Gluten went all in last year with the Parsons deal, and I loved the move, still do. Injuries got in the way big time, but the intent was to add a piece to a team to get them to the promised land. Once the injured players are back, and assuming the Packers don't suffer the same level of injuries as last year, the team will compete for a SB.

People hate to attribute luck to things. Fans, my clients, everyone.

I will go to my death bed saying if Bahktiari didn't get injured before The Tampa game, GB wins the SB that year. That's just terrible luck.

 

[milani]

There were quite a few here that hesitated at the cost of it (Parsons move) both financially but draft capital and even DL hit it caused.

Many still understood it but for sure was a concern of many…

True. Cost and financial responsibility were such a stronghold throughout the Thompson years that we just do not automatically swing for the fences like the Raiders or Cowboys would.