Assessing the Roster

Dantés

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While I understand the “tone setting” RT is better than LT deals coming out of Philly in “Depeche Mode” recently (18M) no way should GB get into overpaying for Bulaga. That’s coming from me, who has been a proponent of OL protection since Aaron was in a 20M annual salary and the majority swearing up and down we were set pat (only to be limping by years end)
GB needs to walk away from Bryan for anything over a 2yr/20M type deal.
Although I do agree with you that it’s all relative if you are that team, in need a player and you have 65M in cap space. GB isn’t in that position and shouldn’t even waste time with him for 12M-14M (my knee hurts worse than his 31 year old knee by just thinking about that) IMO unless it’s a 1 year deal and is heavily incentive laden and no other option (Veldheer retires etc..)

I'm not advocating for the 18M average that Lane Johnson got.

But Trent Brown got 16.5 and Ja'Wuan James got 12.75M. Bulaga is better than both of those guys. 12-13M would be totally reasonable for him, even considering his age and injury history.

If he gets 13M and Crosby gets, conservatively, 4M, then you're talking about 17M combined for the two of them.

Walking away from anything above 10M annually... now that is unreasonable. Especially when the alternative is basically to pigeon-hole yourself into taking a tackle no matter what like the Texans last season.
 

Dantés

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When it's October and Packers fans are watching Aaron Rodgers getting smoked because Billy Turner is trying to hang at right tackle, I'm sure they will take great consolation in the extra 3M in cap space. Can't go paying people what they're worth now.
 

Dantés

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There's been a bit of debate around the iDL position and whether the Packers should sign a veteran option or allow their younger players to develop.

Both Keke and Lancaster carry potential to be helpful players in the future. However, reliance on them entirely seems like a risky proposition.

One name out there that might be a compromise between these two viewpoints is Tyeler Davison. Over the last two seasons, he has established himself as an effective run defense specialist. But because that role isn't highly sought after in today's NFL, he's been very affordable. The Falcons brought him in on a one year deal with an 805K base salary in 2019.

He would bring some backbone to the run defense without breaking the cap or snuffing the role/development of players on the roster.
 

gopkrs

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When it's October and Packers fans are watching Aaron Rodgers getting smoked because Billy Turner is trying to hang at right tackle, I'm sure they will take great consolation in the extra 3M in cap space. Can't go paying people what they're worth now.
Is Turner really that bad? It has not stuck out that way to me. Rodgers seems to like him a lot.
 

Dantés

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Is Turner really that bad? It has not stuck out that way to me. Rodgers seems to like him a lot.

No, he's been fine at guard. I'm perfectly happy with him there. But I was talking about having to try to make it work with him at tackle if Bulaga leaves.
 
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HardRightEdge

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On the other side of the ball, I would really love it if the Packers could get in on Hunter Henry.

The first thing to say here is what I've been saying-- there's a strong chance that he never makes it to the open market. The Chargers are not strapped for space. They can definitely pay him if they want to.

That said, there are two wrinkles in this situation. One-- injuries have really limited Henry. He's missed 1, 2, and 4 games in his three season, respectively, plus all of 2018 with a torn ACL. So that complicates things.

Working in the opposite direction-- the Chargers are a joke. They don't really play home games. They also suck. So it's possible that Henry won't be motivated to remain with them, forcing them to either tag him or let him go.

So if by chance he does make it to the market, I'd love to see him play in green and gold, despite the injuries. When healthy, Henry is behind only Kittle and Kelce in my opinion. He's a true Y who offers plus run blocking and can make a major impact in the passing game.

He is the perfect player for Petals' offense. I'd love the chance to roll the dice on him. The injuries are concerning, but the upside is an elite player at a critical position in the offense.
I'm keeping Henry on the top of my list of possibilities. Sternberger has a long way to go to move beyond slot TE. And its not like Henry would play and Sternberger would sit. LaFleur started using more two TE sets as the season wore on. That was partly a function of Vitale being banged up but TE over FB was LaFluer approach in Tennessee as well.

Having Henry would also open up possibilities as to the kind of WR that might (or should we say "will") be drafted. As it stands now, with Sternberger as the #1, to get the kind of first year contribution out of a draftee that's needed, the obvious focus should be on a guy who sits on the physical/route running end of the spectrum rather a perimeter speed guy or some sideline high-point/back shoulder guy.

I keep harping on it, but other than Adams there wasn't a guy on this roster that was a reliable inside route runner. And Adams is reliable inside only because he has a knack for protecting himself and getting to the ground. That's great for a couple routes per game or getting the first down on 3rd. and 6, but gets about zero YAC on those inside catches, which is a good thing in keeping him healthy.

For all the criticism of Graham's play, I don't recall it being observed that his broken tackles were rare. He goes down like a typical WR because that's what he is--an oversized, slow WR who happens to have a big catch radius.

Absent a physical TE who can actually get out into an inside route, particulary from in-line, who can give as well as he gets after the catch, I'd be looking to replicate a guy who's becoming one of my favorite players, Deebo Samuel. He's far from a polished WR at this point, but if you recall him steamrolling Savage I can say that's typical of his game.

Signing a guy like Henry opens up possibilities in picking the "best available" WR from a variety of skill sets rather than focusing a particular complimentary type.

Regardless of how it shakes out, whoever that WR is better have "good route runner" in his scouting reports, a more important factor than some 4.3 time. One thing we know about our detailed and demanding QB is that if a guy does not run the route to the place and in the way the QBs expects, he will not get the ball.

Now, there is that injury history with Henry. Besides the ACL that kept him out all of 2018, he cracked a bone in his knee in week 1 of 2019 and didn't come back until week 6. From then on there were no issues, and he continued to show more career progression. So you could look at him as a second contract guy with that much less mileage.
 
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Sunshinepacker

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Clark excels stopping the run as well. I wouldn't feel comfortable about spending a ton of money on Armstead as he might be a product of being surrounded by amazing talent in San Francisco.

I wasn't advocating for paying a ton of money for Armstead, he wasn't an elite player until Bosa came along. As for Clark, you're right, I was probably overly harsh from the 49ers game and his early season injuries. When healthy, he's very good against the run, I would just really like to see his snap count come down some; he played more snaps than any other interior dlineman in the NFL last year. One of the reasons I would love to see the Packers get some better play from the rest of the dline next year, give the guy a chance to rest.

For context, he played almost 100 more snaps than Cameron Heyward, 120 more than Fletcher ***, 216 more than Vita Vea...bottom line, Clark has to play a TON of snaps on this team.
 

Mondio

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what does it say for the non subscribers? I didn't see too much sophisticated other than they blocked the crap out of everybody and nobody put up much of a fight for space. To say were were moved off the LOS would be an understatement and we were in a base D much of the night. What are they saying was "wrong" with the scheme? I just saw guys getting pushed around like they didn't belong most of the night.
 
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I'm not advocating for the 18M average that Lane Johnson got.

But Trent Brown got 16.5 and Ja'Wuan James got 12.75M. Bulaga is better than both of those guys. 12-13M would be totally reasonable for him, even considering his age and injury history.

If he gets 13M and Crosby gets, conservatively, 4M, then you're talking about 17M combined for the two of them.

Walking away from anything above 10M annually... now that is unreasonable. Especially when the alternative is basically to pigeon-hole yourself into taking a tackle no matter what like the Texans last season.
While I like Bulaga, we disagree in the approach. I’m exploring all my options and at some point we have to realize that we were looking for a Tackle when we found Bryan.
So you at what salary is too much IYO? At what threshold would you part ways with him?
 

Dantés

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While I like Bulaga, we disagree in the approach. I’m exploring all my options and at some point we have to realize that we were looking for a Tackle when we found Bryan.
So you at what salary is too much IYO? At what threshold would you part ways with him?

15M annually I guess? I'm not so much worried about annual salary as I am length of commitment. I am happy to keep him at what he's worth. I just don't want to commit a lot to him in the long term.

I have explored the other options. They're pretty bleak. They include paying through the nose for Jack Conklin if he gets out of Tennessee (unlikely) and chooses Green Bay (unlikely), signing someone dramatically worse than Bulaga to replace him, sliding someone dramatically worse than Bulaga outside (Turner) to replace him, and/or ear-marking the 30th overall pick on a tackle regardless of BPA.

If there were projected to be good alternatives, I would be more open to moving on. There just aren't.
 

Do7

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I definitely think we need to increase our depth for the secondary.
 

Sky King

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what does it say for the non subscribers? I didn't see too much sophisticated other than they blocked the crap out of everybody and nobody put up much of a fight for space. To say were were moved off the LOS would be an understatement and we were in a base D much of the night. What are they saying was "wrong" with the scheme? I just saw guys getting pushed around like they didn't belong most of the night.

Here, try the related links below instead. No subscription is necessary for them. Silverstein and Butler touch upon the theme of the subscriber article just enough in both links to address the expanded dialogue found in Silverstein's subsequently written column. You'll get the picture. They are interesting to watch BTW.

In a nutshell, Pettine's defense best defends the "pass-first" offenses in vogue for the past decade-plus. The pendulum has begun to swing the other way (more emphasis on run schemes than in the past) in a copycat league. He writes that Pettine's philosophy has not yet caught up to the evolution that is taking place. Will it? We'll see.

The success teams have had running against the Packers in 2019 may not be so much a statistical anomaly as their success represents a delay in adjusting to the ever-changing NFL quickly enough. 49er game 1 and game 2 may indicate as much. Repeating scheme failure with more of the same the second time around sure did not work out. It was painful to watch.

https://www.jsonline.com/videos/spo...ect-what-went-wrong-san-francisco/4559083002/

https://www.jsonline.com/videos/spo...9-ers-ran-through-packers-defense/4559106002/
 
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If there were projected to be good alternatives, I would be more open to moving on. There just aren't.
I’m not so sure that he’s our only option. We wouldn’t have ever thought of Veldheer a year ago, just as one example. There’s more options than just in GB.
I’m not enthused about bringing back Bulaga for 15M annual and IMO I think that would be a mistake. But certainly stranger things have happened.
Maybe I’d re-consider 11-12M annual on a 2-3 year deal, but then I’m looking elsewhere.
 
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Dantés

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I’m not so sure that he’s our only option. We wouldn’t have ever thought of Veldheer a year ago, just as one example. There’s more options than just in GB.
I’m not enthused about bringing back Bulaga for 15M and I think that would be a mistake. But certainly stranger things have happened.

Veldheer held on when he was needed, but there's a reason why he was free agent mid season. He is certainly nothing close to a solution as the starting RT.

I would be interested to hear who you would pursue instead of Bulaga.
 

Do7

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I’m not so sure that he’s our only option. We wouldn’t have ever thought of Veldheer a year ago, just as one example. There’s more options than just in GB.
I’m not enthused about bringing back Bulaga for 15M annual and IMO I think that would be a mistake. But certainly stranger things have happened.
Maybe I’d re-consider 11-12M annual on a 2-3 year deal, but then I’m looking elsewhere.
Especially with how injury prone he is. I'm surprised people are keen on keeping him considering how they felt with people with who are injured prone.
 
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Veldheer held on when he was needed, but there's a reason why he was free agent mid season. He is certainly nothing close to a solution as the starting RT.

I would be interested to hear who you would pursue instead of Bulaga.
I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough. I’m just some novice fan I’ll have to leave that to the personnel guys that spend their lives in that field. Hopefully we don’t rely on a simpleton fan like me to pick our next RT of the future. :eek:
But I’m 100% confident Bryan Bulaga is not the only option. Definitely wouldn’t bet the farm in him anyway. I’ll take my 15M and look for a new farm.
GB needs to continue getting younger at priority positions, not older.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough. I’m just some novice fan I’ll have to leave that to the personnel guys that spend their lives in that field. Hopefully we don’t rely on a simpleton fan like me to pick our next RT of the future. :eek:
But I’m 100% confident Bryan Bulaga is not the only option. Definitely wouldn’t bet the farm in him anyway. I’ll take my 15M and look for a new farm.
GB needs to continue getting younger at priority positions, not older.
$15 mil per year is really excessive. That would make him the 3rd. highest paid RT on a per year average basis. There are only 5 in the league at $10+ mil, two at $13+ mil.

https://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle/

This is not 26 year old second contract guy with a clean bill of health. Nor does he have positional flexibility to wing to LT if needed.
 

Dantés

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I’m not nearly knowledgeable enough. I’m just some novice fan I’ll have to leave that to the personnel guys that spend their lives in that field. Hopefully we don’t rely on a simpleton fan like me to pick our next RT of the future. :eek:
But I’m 100% confident Bryan Bulaga is not the only option. Definitely wouldn’t bet the farm in him anyway. I’ll take my 15M and look for a new farm.
GB needs to continue getting younger at priority positions, not older.

So you're knowledgeable enough to say that we shouldn't keep him, but not knowledgeable enough to name some alternatives? That's a cop out.

I don't think he will cost 15M annually. You asked me what the highest price was that I think they should be willing to entertain. I would project something around 12-13. That's in line with what James got and it's less than what Trenton Brown got, and Bulaga is better than both of those guys.
 
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So you're knowledgeable enough to say that we shouldn't keep him, but not knowledgeable enough to name some alternatives? That's a cop out.
No I’m just lazy! Lol but you have me confused with someone that cares. :roflmao:
But isn’t it great I can form an opinion regardless of my limited personnel knowledge of 32 teams rosters, dozens of possible answers from out of college football and even some street signings (like Veldheer as 1 example) trade deals, FA deals, draft prospects etc.. I would’ve never predicted Veldheer being signed 6 months ahead of time, because I obviously don’t pretend to know what’s going on behind the scenes in the NFL at every position and job description in some intimate fashion.
I do understand the monetary aspect of staying under budget. I think dealing Bulaga anywhere in that 12M-15M range you’re throwing around so casually will severely limit what GB can do at several other positions. Thats simply all I was alluding to when you challenged my comment.
 
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Dblbogey

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If we get a #2, then I presume Lazard will operate out of backfield/slot more than now. Add in two high potential TEs we have already (Tonyan and Jace) I think we can put this to a bit later.

I'm high on Jace, but it's a make or break year for Tonyan who's still a question. Keep Jace, Tonyan,Lewis and draft another one. Lewis is still an exceptional blocker, slow but good hands, and doesn't get hurt.
 

captainWIMM

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The ~12M they pick up from cutting Graham and Taylor will be eaten up (and probably then some) by Bulaga alone if they decide to keep him. In the most optimistic outlook, you're talking about 16M combined for Bulaga and Crosby. Probably more realistically in the 18M ballpark.

The Packers should definitely not spend $18 million of cap space on Bulaga and Crosby. In that case it would be smarter to draft a right tackle to start next season and have some undrafted rookies compete for the kicking job.

Now if coaches are confident in Tonyan and Jace progression and readiness you could cut Graham and ignore signing anyone, and merely draft or bring in a cheap 4th TE.

The Packers have made the mistake on relying on young guys to develop into impact players too often in the past and shouldn't make the same mistake again at tight end this offseason.

imo there is no way Bulaga would sign an incentive laden contract...and for good reason.

Bulaga will be 31 years old at the start of next season. Considering his injury history he should be open to sign an incentive laden contract.

I wasn't advocating for paying a ton of money for Armstead, he wasn't an elite player until Bosa came along.

I fully expect a team to significantly overpay for Armstead based on his production while being surrounded by elite players. Hopefully the Packers won't be the one doing it.
 

gopkrs

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It was a bit tongue in cheek but I meant Bulaga would not sign an incentive laden contract because he would not expect to play w/o being hurt.
 
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