As bad as the defense was tonight...

[Mondio]

the defense's bad first half and good second half habit is sooooo frustrating. the deferring automatically putting us down by 7 before the o steps on the field just compounds it. playing from behind ruins whatever plan they had to run the ball. they have to get smarter and figure this out.

7 points doesn't negate a running game. and it doesn't automatically put us down by 7. and this team seems to be much more about 2nd half adjustments, i'm fine taking the ball 2nd.

 

[Arod2gjdd]

Always defer

 

[brandon2348]

It's the same conversation almost every week and for me the past few years. They keep stockpiling picks and capital on the secondary and it has failed miserably overall. They are 3-4 years late finally hitting on Jackson and Alexander. It all starts upfront and until that is addressed this is gonna be a bend but hopefully don't break defense that can supply a turnover here and there. Somehow I believe people will be salivating over more DB's come draft time which I just don't understand. It's gotten way out of hand. It's like building a defense backwards.

Matthew's isn't even serviceable anymore and he just about over pursues everything in his way. Perry is maxed out and Daniel's has disappeared. The rest other then Clark are mediocre to bad. Where the hell has Montro Adam's been? They kind of put all there eggs in the M. Wilkerson basket and it blew up. Other then Blake the LB Corp is mediocre too.

Until this the front seven is considerably upgraded expect more of the same inconsistency and relying on Rodgers to save the day.

 

[rodell330]

I think it is more about the fact that in the 5 years I have been on this forum, I don’t think you have ever said anything positive about the team. Ergo, no one is surprised when you are negative

That’s not a true conclusion...but Again...I don’t wear Packer colored shades. It is what it is.

 

[Packer Brother]

It's the same conversation almost every week and for me the past few years. They keep stockpiling picks and capital on the secondary and it has failed miserably overall. They are 3-4 years late finally hitting on Jackson and Alexander. It all starts upfront and until that is addressed this is gonna be a bend but hopefully don't break defense that can supply a turnover here and there. Somehow I believe people will be salivating over more DB's come draft time which I just don't understand. It's gotten way out of hand. It's like building a defense backwards.

Matthew's isn't even serviceable anymore and he just about over pursues everything in his way. Perry is maxed out and Daniel's has disappeared. The rest other then Clark are mediocre to bad. Where the hell has Montro Adam's been? They kind of put all there eggs in the M. Wilkerson basket and it blew up. Other then Blake the LB Corp is mediocre too.

Until this the front seven is considerably upgraded expect more of the same inconsistency and relying on Rodgers to save the day.

Agreed. Rodgers is carrying this franchise. Unfortunately, I fear Rodgers won't be able to beat LA & NE by himself. My guess is both games will be over by the 3rd quarter.

McCarthy is a dead man walking. I think we can all agree he deserves, and likely will be fired at the end of the season.

 

[Jerellh528]

Always defer

I disagree. I’ve always thought we should receive. That first kickoff is a guaranteed possession, you can put your stamp on the game and start fast, especially if you’re a better offensive than defensive team, like us..
to defer is to get the second half kickoff, but there’s so many variables that can happen in a game, the opposing team may score right before the half and we would’ve gotten that kickoff either way during normal play.
Obviously the potential to double up is there if our offense score right before half and we get the ball back to start the 2nd half, but I prefer the guarantee of the opening kickoff because there’s too many variables throughout the game to trust getting that double up.
I feel our offense would have a better chance of scoring first and setting the tone if we receive and we play better with a lead.

 

[Mondio]

except when you go thru the threads, everyone is complaining that the offense starts too slow and can't score on our first possession.

 

[brandon2348]

Well the million dollar question on here for quite some time was "Is it Capers or Thompson for the defense being so bad"?

I think it is becoming very clear that it was both. Unfortunately, there is no quick fix to the cumulative damage done.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Obviously the potential to double up is there if our offense score right before half and we get the ball back to start the 2nd half

I never understood this notion of "doubling up". Both teams receive a "free" kickoff during a normal 4 quarter game. You either get it at the beginning of the game or the beginning of the 2nd half.

If you score as the first half expires and have to start the second half by kicking off (because you received the opening kick), isn't that also like "Doubling up"?

If I have a better defense than my offense, I am always hoping to start the game on defense, this is especially true on the road. If I have a high powered offense, I want them on the field first to hopefully establish momentum, this is even more important at home.

 

[gatorpack]

The defense is still bad but somehow way better than last years. The biggest improvement is getting off the field on 3rd and long.

 

[PackAttack12]

As a general rule, it makes sense to defer. But in the case of the Packers, with the struggles over the years on defense, I would think I'd like to try to put it in the endzone and play from ahead.

By deferring, the Packers could be down two scores and only have 1 offensive possession. Because it would go opponent-Packers-opponent to start out.

By receiving, it goes Packers-opponent-Packers. It reduces the possibility of digging a hole early in the game.

I'd love to the know what the Packers record is in games in which it scores a TD on the first possession of the game. I'll try to dig into that later.

 

[gbgary]

7 points doesn't negate a running game. and it doesn't automatically put us down by 7. and this team seems to be much more about 2nd half adjustments, i'm fine taking the ball 2nd.

deferring has worked 3/4 years ago but when the d went bad it's been a problem. i agree it's not enough by itself to derail an o game plan but when the d basically fails the entire first half it does compound the problem.

 

[Mondio]

Kicking or receiving is the least of what is going wrong.

 

[Jerellh528]

I never understood this notion of "doubling up". Both teams receive a "free" kickoff during a normal 4 quarter game. You either get it at the beginning of the game or the beginning of the 2nd half.

If you score as the first half expires and have to start the second half by kicking off (because you received the opening kick), isn't that also like "Doubling up"?

If I have a better defense than my offense, I am always hoping to start the game on defense, this is especially true on the road. If I have a high powered offense, I want them on the field first to hopefully establish momentum, this is even more important at home.

Because if you get the kickoff to start the second half after the opposing team scored, you were going to get that kickoff anyway as there’s a change of possession after every score. It’s smarter to take the guaranteed extra possession to start the game because there are factors you can’t control during the game that would make it so you don’t get the extra possession, such as the opposing team scoring before the half.

 

[Jerellh528]

As a general rule, it makes sense to defer. But in the case of the Packers, with the struggles over the years on defense, I would think I'd like to try to put it in the endzone and play from ahead.

By deferring, the Packers could be down two scores and only have 1 offensive possession. Because it would go opponent-Packers-opponent to start out.

By receiving, it goes Packers-opponent-Packers. It reduces the possibility of digging a hole early in the game.

I'd love to the know what the Packers record is in games in which it scores a TD on the first possession of the game. I'll try to dig into that later.

Why does it make sense to defer as a general rule?

 

[rmontro]

It’s smarter to take the guaranteed extra possession to start the game because there are factors you can’t control during the game that would make it so you don’t get the extra possession, such as the opposing team scoring before the half.

Well, you get to have a chance at an extra possession if you defer. It's not a guaranteed extra possession, but it's a chance for one. Don't see why you wouldn't take it.
Maybe if you want the momentum of scoring first.

 

[wist43]

The defense is so lacking in front seven talent that the team really has no chance to compete with the elite teams.

Add to the woeful defensive front all of the other problems, i.e. stale and predictable offense, poor game management by Stubby, and a below avg OL, and you have the makings of a floundering team that has no chance of contending for a championship.

 

[rmontro]

The defense is so lacking in front seven talent that the team really has no chance to compete with the elite teams.

Presumably that is going to be the main focus of the upcoming draft and offseason.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Gute did a good job getting some corners to help with that but the Packers have lacked playmakers on defense for the past 3-4 seasons and it's REAL hard to play solid D when you have a poor pass rush (or have to rely on blitzing a ton) and the secondary is lackluster.

The secondary should be significantly improved with the Packers hopefully getting Alexander back and Breeland finally being able to play after the bye week.

the defense's bad first half and good second half habit is sooooo frustrating. the deferring automatically putting us down by 7 before the o steps on the field just compounds it. playing from behind ruins whatever plan they had to run the ball. they have to get smarter and figure this out.

As I've pointed out several times the Packers win a higher percentage of games in which they defer after winning the coin toss than other ones.

The defense is still bad but somehow way better than last years. The biggest improvement is getting off the field on 3rd and long.

Actually the defense is worse on third-and-long (seven plus yards to go) this season, allowing a first down on 30.8% of the plays ranking tied for 25th in the league, than in 2017 (28.4%).

I'd love to the know what the Packers record is in games in which it scores a TD on the first possession of the game. I'll try to dig into that later.

The Packers are 21-4 since 2006 when scoring a touchdown on their first drive after receiving the opening kickoff.

 

[yooperpackfan]

The Packers are 21-4 since 2006 when scoring a touchdown on their first drive after receiving the opening kickoff.

Sounds like a good reason not to defer.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Sounds like a good reason not to defer.

You have to realize that the Packers have only scored a touchdown on 25 of 97 occasions in those situations though.

 

[PackAttack12]

The Packers are 21-4 since 2006 when scoring a touchdown on their first drive after receiving the opening kickoff.

Bingo. That's along the lines of what I was thinking.

Even though you aren't always going to score a TD on your opening drive, perhaps more emphasis should be placed on receiving the opening kickoff and putting the ball in the endzone, thus playing from ahead.

Again, if we had a formidable defense, I wouldn't be as adamant about it. But this is a team that needs to be playing from ahead. It just lifts the spirit and energy level of the entire team.

 

[PackAttack12]

Why does it make sense to defer as a general rule?

The idea of doubling up at the end of first half/start of second half is advantageous. This is why you see the more well oiled machine in the NFL (the New England Patriots) defer so much.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Even though you aren't going to score a TD on your opening drive, perhaps more emphasis should be placed on receiving the opening kickoff and putting the ball in the endzone, thus playing from ahead.

Again, if we had a formidable defense, I wouldn't be as adamant about it. But this is a team that needs to be playing from ahead. It just lifts the spirit and energy level of the entire team.

As I've posted before the Packers have a good winning percentage (31-15, .674) when deferring after winning the coin toss since 2008 as well though.

 

[PackAttack12]

As I've posted before the Packers have a good winning percentage (31-15, .674) when deferring after winning the coin toss since 2008 as well though.

Indeed, but I'll bet that percentage is considerably less when the opposing team puts the ball in the end zone on that first drive. That's my thing. None of this is an exact science, but even without looking at the numbers, relying on your memory in so many opening drives the past few years, the team almost looks dead in the water if the opposing team scores on the first drive of the game. Constantly playing catch up.

I'm hoping the defense improves to the point that this will be a non issue moving forward though.