All the draft complaining...let's look over the past 10 seasons...

rmontro

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You're recollection is off then.
I don't think it is. Rodgers and Smith were both thought to have potential. I don't remember anyone saying Rodgers wasn't a value at the #22 pick. Some people were angry because they wanted to see GB help the team they had currently, with Favre. What I remember is people thought that at #22, he was too good to turn down.
 
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RRyder

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I don't think it is. Rodgers and Smith were both thought to have potential. I don't remember anyone saying Rodgers wasn't a value at the #22 pick. Some people were angry because they wanted to see GB help the team they had currently, with Favre. What I remember is people thought that a #22, he was too good to turn down.

Well thats because the 15th best prospect at 22 is good value.

And yes they were both thought to have potential. What player ranked with a 1st round grade doesn't?

Niether of them were in legitimate talks as the best prospects in their class. They were talked about as possible #1 picks simply because they were QBs that had 1st round grades and SF absolutely needed a QB
 

Pugger

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Perry was the only exception I had, indicative of the time you put into this. And I forgot about Perry’s first year and I often confuse him with Datone who had one good year. Anyway, the argument for Perry could go either way.

And as you say, much as we would like to think it’s science, the draft has a lot of subjectivity to it. I still have Tony Mandarich nightmares......... I see Barry Sanders in Green and Gold instead. It’s horrible.

I can still remember the Rich Campbell draft! :eek:
 

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Perry is one of those things.

1.5 sacks as a rookie.

7 sacks in year 2.

11 sacks in year 3.

He really looked good that 3rd year, and I really thought he had arrived and would be a force. He never did much after that.

Personally, I blame Capers. Seems to me there were several players, some that you mentioned, that looked good early and never got over the hump. He had a history that predates the Packers for that kind of thing.

So I don't think this was a player evaluation failure. I think this was a coaching development issue.

Of course we can't ignore the fact the guy got hurt a lot. It says a lot that he isn't playing for anyone else now and he is only 30 years old.
 

Pugger

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But anyway I think you missed the context of the complaints....current picks do not help the team right now.

You do not rebuild when you should be aiming for the SB, so irrespective of whether Love/Dillon end up being boom or bust, this is a missed opportunity.

You don't think Dillon will help the team this year?
 

Pugger

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This doesn't add up at all.

Aaron Jones cannot play every snap or take ever carry. If healthy, he will probably take about 60% of the snaps and take about 50-55% of the rush attempts.

Given that reality, Dillon does not have to be as good or better than Jones to provide an improvement to the team overall. He just has to be an improvement over the alternatives behind Jones.

Right. Let's pretend that we drafted that WR everyone was clamoring for. He would still be behind Adams just like Dillon will be behind Jones. Gute did try to improve the offense but just not how most folks figured he would.
 

Pugger

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The only fallacy in the discussion being you believing that there wasn't any prospect available at #62 at a position of need capable of having an impact in 2020 forcibg the Packers to select Dillon.

What prospect and what position are you thinking of that was available at #62 in that draft other than the one Gute took?
 
D

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You don't think Dillon will help the team this year?

Not as much as a starter at wide receiver, right tackle, defensive line, inside linebacker or cornerback.

Let's pretend that we drafted that WR everyone was clamoring for. He would still be behind Adams just like Dillon will be behind Jones. Gute did try to improve the offense but just not how most folks figured he would.

The difference being that there are three wide receivers on the field for most snaps but only one running back.

What prospect and what position are you thinking of that was available at #62 in that draft other than the one Gute took?

I could list at least a dozen of prospects I would have preferred Gutekunst to select at #62 at any of the positions mentioned above.
 

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I could list at least a dozen of prospects I would have preferred Gutekunst to select at #62 at any of the positions mentioned above.

Name 6 players that were available in this draft that you would have preferred at that spot. I'm not being snide, I'm actually curious. I'm not all that great at evaluating collegiate players coming into the draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_NFL_Draft
 

GleefulGary

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Not as much as a starter at wide receiver, right tackle, defensive line, inside linebacker or cornerback.



The difference being that there are three wide receivers on the field for most snaps but only one running back.



I could list at least a dozen of prospects I would have preferred Gutekunst to select at #62 at any of the positions mentioned above.

Let's go! Let's see that dozen!
 

PikeBadger

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The only fallacy in the discussion being you believing that there wasn't any prospect available at #62 at a position of need capable of having an impact in 2020 forcibg the Packers to select Dillon.
You seem to think you know exactly what Gutekunst’s draft board looked like. Now there’s a fallacy for a whole bunch of folks.
 

lambeaulambo

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good points raised...about the only guy I would put on my list as a huge overachiever is hhcd....to me was a one hit wonder being thrown into...there is a reason why he is on his 4th team...uncoachable.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Other than a few fringe posters, or a few of the Letzbreelers, I haven't gotten the sense that the whole sentiment is that these last 10 years are all bad 1st and 2nd round picks are all bad. That'd just be nuts.

I think personally that Ted Thompson while having some bad apples in his picks like the Jones's (Datone and Josh) had mostly the right ideas. I'd say even though we only got one Superbowl win, he at least set us up for several more. Who knows what happens if...

Favre doesn't throw that awful pick against the Giants

The McCarthy/Slocum/Bostick triumvirate doesn't have those collective brain farts in Seattle

Jordy doesn't get hurt in 2015 and Shields and Rollins don't bite it in 2016.


I think what's got people a bit peeved is what Gute is doing in the here and now. And to further clarify, it's not that all his players are being perceived to bust, it's about whether the ones that he's drafting are the missing links to getting the team to the Superbowl HERE and NOW. Right now, I don't think they are so hence I find myself agreeing with Captain's assessments.
 
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What’s perplexing to me as of late is that Gutenkunst was a hero for being aggressive in FA and pretty crafty in the draft and played a big part in attaining a 13-3 season. But in the very next Breath he’s an ignoramus GM (Generally Malicious) who failed at every turn to push the team over the top (although we haven’t played the 1st snap) that we likely wouldn’t be at in the first place unless Gute hit some home runs. So which is it?
 
D

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You seem to think you know exactly what Gutekunst’s draft board looked like. Now there’s a fallacy for a whole bunch of folks.

No, it's pretty obvious Gutekunst had Dillon ranked as the highest prospect available at #62. I disagree with it though.

What’s perplexing to me as of late is that Gutenkunst was a hero for being aggressive in FA and pretty crafty in the draft and played a big part in attaining a 13-3 season. But in the very next Breath he’s an ignoramus GM (Generally Malicious) who failed at every turn to push the team over the top (although we haven’t played the 1st snap) that we likely wouldn’t be at in the first place unless Gute hit some home runs. So which is it?

Gutekunst had a great offseason last year with the additions made in free agency as well as adding Savage and Jenkins in the draft. The 2018 class seems to be pretty disastrous aside of Alexander though.

I fully understand the criticism about this year's selection after he used the first four picks solely on backups.
 
D

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Name 6 players that were available in this draft that you would have preferred at that spot. I'm not being snide, I'm actually curious. I'm not all that great at evaluating collegiate players coming into the draft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_NFL_Draft

Let's go! Let's see that dozen!

Ben Bartch, Zack Baun, Terrell Burgess, Ashtyn Davis, Jordan Elliott, Neville Gallimore, Willie Gay, Josh Jones, Justin Madubuike, Amik Robertson, Josiah Scott, Curtis Weaver.
 

Fredrik87

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Ben Bartch, Zack Baun, Terrell Burgess, Ashtyn Davis, Jordan Elliott, Neville Gallimore, Willie Gay, Josh Jones, Justin Madubuike, Amik Robertson, Josiah Scott, Curtis Weaver.

I'd add Logan Wilson, Lucas Niang, Cameron Dantzler, Jeremy Chinn.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Right. Let's pretend that we drafted that WR everyone was clamoring for. He would still be behind Adams just like Dillon will be behind Jones. Gute did try to improve the offense but just not how most folks figured he would.

Yeah, he drafted a backup QB, a backup RB, and a fullback. He also signed Funchess. Big improvements over last year's personnel! I think most ppl figured he'd do something to improve the offense in the short-term.
 

Fredrik87

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Right. Let's pretend that we drafted that WR everyone was clamoring for. He would still be behind Adams just like Dillon will be behind Jones. Gute did try to improve the offense but just not how most folks figured he would.
First off WR's are worth a lot more to a offense then a RB of equal talent and the money saved by drafting vs signing a FA is also greater than in the case of a RB.

Second people need to stop saying that everyone was clamoring for WR and that's why they dislike the draft that is false a lot of people myself included would have been just as happy with a good OT, ILB, DL, or CB in fact the top 5 player on my board when we picked Dillon did not include a WR.
The only ones who have been saying that people hate the draft because of not getting a WR are those that are trying to defend this draft.
 
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First off WR's are worth a lot more to a offense then a RB of equal talent and the money saved by drafting vs signing a FA is also greater than in the case of a RB.

Second people need to stop saying that everyone was clamoring for WR and that's why they dislike the draft that is false a lot of people myself included would have been just as happy with a good OT, ILB, DL, or CB in fact the top 5 player on my board when we picked Dillon did not include a WR.
The only ones who have been saying that people hate the draft because of not getting a WR are those that are trying to defend this draft.
Its also true that those who didn’t get their “position” desires are ignoring that we drafted 2 position picks that were considered our top 5 needs IMO.
WR, LB, DT, TE, OT (CB, C, RB and QB) was more a second level need) Gute used 2 of the first 4 selections at TE+LB.

For those fans on the flip side of “defending this draft” many say we didn’t get any help but I’d argue we got 2 needed position groups this season and 2 more that will be valuable going forward (even as early as this season or next). Next season is always a focus of GM’s in this league so that’s really not some big shocker.
 
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I fully understand the criticism about this year's selection after he used the first four picks solely on backups.
Funny you should say that and I’ve seen that rhetoric thrown around a bunch. It’s actually true. With any team and in any draft year this holds true that draft selections are largely all backups (and hell even some 1st rounders don’t start their Rookie season).
But If your going to use that as an argument to imply GB should’ve had 4 starters in the first 4 selections? or even mostly starters?

I’d challenge the validity of that argument. It doesn’t hold enough substance unless you provide us with the % of players in the first 5 rounds who are not backups in their Rookie season either league wide or over a large, consecutive sample series of the Packers drafts??
Because that argument only holds true in comparison if the vast majority of selections inside 5 rounds start or are #1 on their position list Day 1
 
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PackerfaninCarolina

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What’s perplexing to me as of late is that Gutenkunst was a hero for being aggressive in FA and pretty crafty in the draft and played a big part in attaining a 13-3 season. But in the very next Breath he’s an ignoramus GM (Generally Malicious) who failed at every turn to push the team over the top (although we haven’t played the 1st snap) that we likely wouldn’t be at in the first place unless Gute hit some home runs. So which is it?

Well, I think the problem is that Gute's backers saw his willingness to go to the FA market as such a breath of fresh air from Ted Thompson that it became the barometer of a successful GM.

The other thing is that most of his backers kept on saying this year he was going to go get those reinforcements on offense in year 3. Turns out they were wrong.

So in other words, yeah Gute did some things to make last seasons 13-3 possible, but he didn't follow the next logical steps to address the shortcomings.
 

Fredrik87

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Its also true that those who didn’t get their “position” desires are ignoring that we drafted 2 position picks that were considered our top 5 needs IMO.
WR, LB, DT, TE, OT (CB, C, RB and QB) was more a second level need) Gute used 2 of the first 4 selections at TE+LB.

For those fans on the flip side of “defending this draft” many say we didn’t get any help but I’d argue we got 2 needed position groups this season and 2 more that will be valuable going forward (even as early as this season or next). Next season is always a focus of GM’s in this league so that’s really not some big shocker.

I don't consider TE a top 5 need and didn't consider it one at the time of the draft either.
Also a lot of people have been saying Deguara is a FB which if that is the case then he doesn't fill in any holes at TE wether you consider it a top 5 need or not; and if he is to be considered as a regular TE then I have to question drafting a TE who in his best year only posted 500 yards, in the top 3 rounds yes he is a good blocker but purely blocking TE's don't have that kind of value in todays NFL.

And I've already said on another thread I consider Martin to be a decent pickup but not a great one and certainly not good enough of one to make up for the rest of the draft.

I am going to state what most people would disagree with but I think this draft is worse long term than it is short term we didn't draft a single CB, DL, OT, or WR if a position is a need this year and it wasn't addressed it isn't likely to be fixed next year so WR, DL and OT will all likely be needing upgrades next year and CB is a upcoming need, also looking at the fact that every iOL we drafted this year was a 6th round pick assuming one of those guy's will be a capable starter next year is optimistic meaning Center or Guard could also be a upcoming need.
And if Bahktiari somehow doesn't get resigned that would be another huge hole to fill.
Now because of our lack of cash if even the majority of these positions are needs next year and that is the more likely scenario than we'd have to fix most if not all of them in the draft unless Gute has a incredible draft he would not be able to fix all of those holes.
Even if we assume he has a good draft no GM bats 1000 so the odds of filling that many roster holes especially at such high value positions like OT, CB and WR that tend to go of the board fast are very low.
 

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