All the draft complaining...let's look over the past 10 seasons...

captainWIMM

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His cap hit for 2019 is under 8 so I would without a doubt. The numbers the next 5 seasons get gaudy so I’d agree starting next season.

That's not how the salary cap works. You have to consider the cap hit over the entire length of a contract to evaluate it.

I thought you were one in the camp not convinced he will lose spot to Dillon?

That's why I mentioned Williams possibly ending up being third on the depth chart.

I can’t wait for this board to blow up when we let them both walk and use Another second to replace them.

It would be extremely stupid to spend second round picks on running backs in consecutive years.

I do believe one of the two will be back, but it is also quite a viable option we do let both walk. If we do that and Dillon is the back the organization clearly thinks he is, I wouldn't be shocked if we draft a back or two next draft.

I would be fine with spending a day three pick on the position next year. That would have made sense this time around as well.

Well true...many on this board even, despite many not fitting this...cannot separate their personal opinions/emotions long enough to be objective about things like drafts or free agency.

That's hilarious coming from you.
 

captainWIMM

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Back this comment up please. I've always clearly labeled my posts as either my personal thoughts/feelings and/or purely observations placed upon the team or topic.

Nor perfect, but I've always been perfectly clear.

It's hilarious that you think you have been objective about the Packers draft choices this offseason.
 

tynimiller

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It's hilarious that you think you have been objective about the Packers draft choices this offseason.

Oh my God, I've clearly outlined I disagreed with every pick until the 6th. I even made a thread because you specifically kept claiming I was agreeing with them.

Shoot I express clearly in this thread: https://www.packerforum.com/threads/2020-as-it-fell.83612/

That I in NO way even considered Love, Dillon, Deguara or Kamal an option when we picked them. I also clearly spelled out in that thread my opposition to the mindset we shouldn't have grabbed a WR...having us grab not ONE but TWO.

You gotta stop declaring things as fact, when clearly not or at most merely an opinion.
 

captainWIMM

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Oh my God, I've clearly outlined I disagreed with every pick until the 6th. I even made a thread because you specifically kept claiming I was agreeing with them.

Shoot I express clearly in this thread: https://www.packerforum.com/threads/2020-as-it-fell.83612/

That I in NO way even considered Love, Dillon, Deguara or Kamal an option when we picked them. I also clearly spelled out in that thread my opposition to the mindset we shouldn't have grabbed a WR...having us grab not ONE but TWO.

You gotta stop declaring things as fact, when clearly not or at most merely an opinion.

While you have been saying that you would have selected different players in various rounds I haven't seen you mentioning that you didn't like the draft even once.

While it seems you have mitigated your support for this year's draft I'm mainly talking about your stance directly after the draft when Dantes, Gleeful and you told everybody what a masterful job Gutekunst did and criticism wasn't justified at all.
 

tynimiller

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While you have been saying that you would have selected different players in various rounds I haven't seen you mentioning that you didn't like the draft even once.

While it seems you have mitigated your support for this year's draft I'm mainly talking about your stance directly after the draft when Dantes, Gleeful and you told everybody what a masterful job Gutekunst did and criticism wasn't justified at all.

LOL you would be unable to find a quote where I bragged at the masterful job Gute did LOL

You're better than that.

The ability to discuss the positives of players for the last time, DOES NOT mean you agree with the selection or the spot they're taken. You just refuse to absorb that concept.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Old thread but for some reason it popped up for me and I got curious. I think it's safe to say you can close the books on a few of these guys now and declare them bad picks.

I also disagree with those who give a high grade to a player that did very little in Green Bay, but played well elsewhere. Are you grading the Packers selection of said player or that players career in the NFL?

I think the one positional group that stands out the most over this 10 years is DB's. Packers invested a shiit load of draft resources into the secondary and overall didn't do very well on those returns. Had one or 2 of those guys turned out better, I think we may have seen more invested in weapons for Rodgers and potentially a Lombardi or 2 due to a better team.
 

Heyjoe4

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Old thread but for some reason it popped up for me and I got curious. I think it's safe to say you can close the books on a few of these guys now and declare them bad picks.

I also disagree with those who give a high grade to a player that did very little in Green Bay, but played well elsewhere. Are you grading the Packers selection of said player or that players career in the NFL?

I think the one positional group that stands out the most over this 10 years is DB's. Packers invested a shiit load of draft resources into the secondary and overall didn't do very well on those returns. Had one or 2 of those guys turned out better, I think we may have seen more invested in weapons for Rodgers and potentially a Lombardi or 2 due to a better team.
It seemed like GB was picking a DB in Rd 1 and Rd 2 every year. Their track record here has been horrible. Certainly they got a winner in Alexander, and hopefully in Stokes, but yeah, overall this position group has been a draft disaster.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It seemed like GB was picking a DB in Rd 1 and Rd 2 every year. Their track record here has been horrible. Certainly they got a winner in Alexander, and hopefully in Stokes, but yeah, overall this position group has been a draft disaster.
Yup and as bad as the failure of not improving the position, is the opportunity cost of using those picks to try and improve other positions. Draft disaster and asset drainer.
 

Heyjoe4

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Yup and as bad as the failure of not improving the position, is the opportunity cost of using those picks to try and improve other positions. Draft disaster and asset drainer.
Good point. It's like throwing away a 1st and 2nd round pick. My memory only goes so far back, but I recall they chose Damarius Randall and Quentin Rollins 1 and 2, then later Jaire Alexander and Josh Jackson also 1 and 2. That's a .250 batting average for those picks and that's unacceptable. Oddly enough, the FO has been close to stellar when drafting for the OL in later rounds. But the bad moves in the secondary could have easily cost them a Lombardi trophy or two. I don't think that's an exaggeration.
 
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So far the new Regime headed by Gute has changed my confidence at DB drafting. If we hit on Eric Stokes. We will be batting .750 at the top end with J’aire, Savage and Stokes. His only miss was Josh Jackson there 2 rounds range. It seems improbable that Jackson would take 4 years to rise, he might just get boxed out of the CB room altogether this season if he’s not careful. I often wonder with a talented guy like Josh, could he be converted to playing more a Safety role. Anyway, I’ll leave that to the professionals.
 

Heyjoe4

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So far the new Regime headed by Gute has changed my confidence at DB drafting. If we hit on Eric Stokes. We will be batting .750 at the top end with J’aire, Savage and Stokes. His only miss was Josh Jackson there 2 rounds range. It seems improbable that Jackson would take 4 years to rise, he might just get boxed out of the CB room altogether this season if he’s not careful. I often wonder with a talented guy like Josh, could he be converted to playing more a Safety role. Anyway, I’ll leave that to the professionals.
Good summary of the situation, and yeah Savage was a good pick as well. If Stokes pans out, that's a pretty solid secondary along with Alexander and Amos. It also allows Gluten to focus on guys for the DL and ILB groups. GMs can't address all the position groups at once, but Gluten has done a pretty good job lately, especially with the D.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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So far the new Regime headed by Gute has changed my confidence at DB drafting. If we hit on Eric Stokes. We will be batting .750 at the top end with J’aire, Savage and Stokes. His only miss was Josh Jackson there 2 rounds range. It seems improbable that Jackson would take 4 years to rise, he might just get boxed out of the CB room altogether this season if he’s not careful. I often wonder with a talented guy like Josh, could he be converted to playing more a Safety role. Anyway, I’ll leave that to the professionals.
I agree and sometimes I wonder if it was TT, Scouting or as I have said many times....DB coaching, specifically Joe Whitt Jr. He hasn't been able to stick with a team since the Packers let him walk away, that kind of tells me something. I look at what a few guys did when they fizzled out in Green Bay and they seemed to blossom elsewhere or at least keep their careers going. He is now back with Big Mike in Dallas. To think his name was being thrown around as a possible DC after Capers was canned! :eek:
 

Curly Calhoun

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So I posted this in another thread..however hating how threads don't stay on topic, once this is posted I'm going to go delete that post as it isn't truly on target directly with the post. Many folks, especially lately, have been making absolute comments about the Packers inability or incompetence at the higher rounds of the draft over the years.

I'll be honest, I've not always agreed with the players picked myself...I've ate crow many a times, and I've been able to say "I told ya that guy wasn't good"...but ultimately like even the organizations with full time committed scouts, the draft is not a sure thing. There is very RARELY absolute known commodities in the prospects...so how have we done with the top shelf of drafts?

Let's look at purely the first two rounds over the last 10 years:

2020 - Jordan Love & AJ Dillon - both are promising in entirely different ways, one an offensive weapon for the present, the other the future. No verdict can be cast logically either way before neither step foot on a field.

2019 - Rashan Gary, Darnell Savage and Elgton Jenkins - This class has a freak athlete the verdict is still out on learning behind two massive FA success stories (Gary). A safety that quickly proved to be more than capable of being the future back there with Amos and I expect we see more and more of (Savage). Then the CREAM of this draft so far, a Guard that wasn't just one of the best rookies in the NFL, but one of the best guards period last year as a rookie.

2018 - Jaire Alexander and Josh Jackson - One is proving to already be considered one of the best at his position under 25 (Jaire) while the other is still way too young to say bust, but that door option is unlocked and just as likely as not.

2017 - Kevin King and Josh Jones - One is a headcase that proved ability doesn't mean anything sometimes (Jones) and the other when healthy is a SOLID #2 CB in the league.

2016 - Kenny Clark and Jason Spriggs - One is the biggest bust we've had in the last five years draft wise (Spriggs) and the other is arguably the biggest boom pick (Clark).

2015 - Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins - Both are contributors, just not for us any longer. Average NFL players with shining glimpses...sadly just didn't work out here.

2014 - Ha HA and Davante Adams - Ha Ha is a starter in the NFL and I suspect will be for a time, just wasn't a fit here after a while, or should say wasn't worth the cash he was going to take (also a factor). The other (Adams) would argue as the best player we've drafted the last 10 years in the first two rounds (fight with Kenny Clark atm)

2013 - Datone Jones and Eddie Lacy - One NEVER translated to the NFL (Jones) and the other was AWESOME for us for a very short time (Lacy).

2012 - Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy and Casey Hayward - All three served great for a time. One never grew beyond contributor (Worthy), another was awesome and priced himself out of us (Hayward) and the other if injuries hadn't become an issue I think would still be here; he was a starter out the gate as well many forget (Perry).

2011 - Derek Sherrod and Randall Cobb - One is the epitome of what might of have been stories for Green Bay had the catastrophic injury not happened (Sherrod) and the other was a HUGE part of some near SB runs (Cobb).

2010 - Bryan Bulaga and Mike Neal - One is arguably one of the best Tackles during the past decade and the other served us as a starter four seasons and then gone....

So for argument sake let's throw out three categories SOLID PICKS, BAD PICKS and NOT FAIR TO SAY: If a guy started well for us in that rookie contract or was a solid contributor I don't think you can argue against putting them in a solid picks...I get some will argue against Lacy, but they forget just how awesome he was when he was good for us.

SOLID PICKS: Bulaga, Cobb, Hayward, Perry, Adams, Ha Ha, Lacy, Clark, King, Alexander, Jenkins, Savage

BAD PICKS: Neal, Worthy, Datone Jones, Spriggs, Josh Jones...gonna put Randall and Rollins here as they couldn't consistently hold spots for us, but are NFL guys. Crazy thing is all of these guys except the two Jones I'd argue weren't bad picks persay, but given their high draft profile spots - the "bad pick" label is very much acceptable to argue. Believe 4 of them still are NFL contracted players, which says something.

NOT FAIR TO SAY: Sherrod, Gary, Josh Jackson, Love and Dillon - All but one of these is due to simply not being enough time to see either way.

Incase counting that is 12 Solid, "7" Bad and 5 Not Fair to Say.....in something as unpredictable as the draft, honestly stepping back that's better than even I guess I thought we'd done.



What do you think? Getting 12 solid guys spread over 10 years with 4 current unknowns yet to be determined...is that bad?

I'd argue despite my disagreement in some years, that is a rather impressive amount of solid picks we've had over the years in the first and/or second rounds.

You?



Just a guess, but I would venture to say if you took any team over the same span of time, they would also have their share of 'bad' picks that most of us have forgotten about.

Being Packer fans, we tend to dwell on our own bad picks and conclude everyone involved was/is an idiot and that the franchise ergo is doomed....Negativity bias, and all that.

There are some really, really good picks in there....Kenny Clark, at the bottom of the first round, Jaire Alexander, whom we traded back to get because the Saints wanted Davenport, and Davante Adams and Randall Cobb in the second round. Not too shabby.

Hand-wringers, of course, will still be miserable...
 
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