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Albert Haynesworth to Minnesota?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, May 8, 2010.

  1. turbo69

    turbo69 Cheesehead

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    Even though Packer fans enjoy watching guys like Cris Carter get punked.........Reggie White throwing people around was something that happened pretty much every time he took the field. On a different note, I think my favorite play actually came from Chester Marcol when we were playing the Bears. The Packers make the FG.........they win........they miss it......they lose. That is what I thought anyhow. The kick was blocked........went right back into Marcols hands.....and he ran it in for a TD. That was awsome! Not sure when exactly it happend....but I am thinking it was round 1980.........give or take a year or two. I would like to watch that game again.
     
  2. PackerSlacker

    PackerSlacker Cheesehead

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    Why is it every damn player that might be on the market is rumored to go to the Vikings or the Bears. Especially the last couple years.
     
  3. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Haven't you heard? The Vikings are getting old! They have to get these players because Chilly can't draft people. After all, how many of his draft picks stuck with the team the last two years! :happy0005:
     
  4. PackerSlacker

    PackerSlacker Cheesehead

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    Thats a good point. They are pretty much the Redskins of the midwest lately. Even though they got a likely dynamic duo in Rice and Harvin I'd like to see how they look with Jackson behind center in a couple years...or sooner
     
  5. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Well, when you spend as much time in free agency as those guys do, it's only natural. Look at last season with the Bears- Jay Cutler. This season- Julius Peppers and Chester Taylor.

    For the Vikings, last season's big pickup was Brett Fraud and they tried for LT this season. When you start to become active like they have, it's only natural for the rumors to run rampant.
     
  6. PackerSlacker

    PackerSlacker Cheesehead

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    Ahh the hell with 'em. Man, I cant stand that team. They easily tower over the Bears at the moment as most hated for me. Even before Favre got there. I guess thats why its called rivalry. I suppose the Bears would be up there if they could beat us a little more often. I could warm up to Cutler as a new villain real quick.
     
  7. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    You're right that Kevin Williams is 1 year younger than Pickett and the other Williams is just about ready to retire. but when he does who will be their replacement? Surely you can't let Fred Evans or Jimmy Kennedy take over would you? With the length and time needed for a DT to properly transition it'll take a long time for the Vikings to find one.

    As for it not being a requirement for drafting a starting QB in the first round, it's pretty ironic that you would say that. Considering that the organization already had a non-first round player who led them to the playoffs last year, the Vikings still opted to go with signing Brett Favre.
     
  8. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    So what your saying is that Raji won't be a starter for several more years. Kennedy is actually older than Williams. MN does have a young guy who they are working with. Guion. Since as you said, it may take several years for DT's to develop, we won't know for awhile.

    They also had a non-first round player finish up the season the year before and play in the playoffs. And being a first rounder is no guarantee of sucess. Look at one of the Packers two first round QB picks in the last 30 years. How long did Rich Campbell, (6th pick overall) last in the NFL? Just for reminders, his career stats.

    31/68 386 yards, 3 TDs, 9 INt's, 7 sacks and a rating of 38.8
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    List of NFL starting qbs (2009)

    New Orleans: Brees: early 2nd rounder (32 overall)
    Carolina: Matt Moore: undrafted
    Atlanta: Matt Ryan: 1st rounder
    Tampa Bay: Freeman: 1st rounder

    GB: Rodgers: 1st rounder
    MN: Favre: early 2nd (33 overall)
    CHI: Cutler: 1st rounder
    DET: Stafford: 1st rounder

    PHI: McNabb: 1st rounder
    WAS: Campbell: 2nd rounder
    NYG: Eli: 1st rounder
    DAL: Romo: undrafted

    SEA: Hasselbeck: 6th rounder
    AZ: Warner: undrafted
    STL: Bulger: 6th rouder
    SF: Smith: 1st rounder

    IND: Payton: 1st rounder
    JAX: Garrard: 4th rounder
    HOU: Schaub: 3rd rounder
    TEN: Young: 1st rounder

    PIT: Big Ben: 1st rounder
    BAL: Flacco: 1st rounder
    CIN: Palmer: 1st rounder
    CLE: Quinn: 1st rounder

    NE: Brady: 6th rounder
    NYG: Sanchez: 1st rounder
    MIA: Henne: 2nd rounder
    BUF: Edwards: 2nd rounder

    SD: Rivers: 1st rounder
    OAK: Russell: 1st rounder
    KC: Cassell: 7th rounder
    DEN: Orton: 4th rounder

    As you see, 56% of the NLF starting QBs last year were 1st rounder, and if you take into account that Favre and Brees were very early 2nd rounder, it goes to 59%.

    If you take into consideration last years' top 10 qb by rating, 40% of them are 1st rounders, 60% if you count in Brees and Favre:

    Brees: early 2nd rounder
    Favre: early 2nd rounder
    Rivers: 1st rounder
    Rodgers: 1st rounder
    Big Ben: 1st rounder
    Payton Manning: 1st rounder
    Shaub: 3rd rounder
    Romo: undrafted
    Brady: 6th rounder
    Warner: undrafted

    46% in the top 15 (or 60%)
    Eli: 1st rounder
    McNabb: 1st rounder
    Flacco: 1st rounder
    Orton: 4th rounder
    Campbell: 2nd rounder

    55% in the top 20 (or 65%)
    Palmer: 1st rounder
    Garrard: 4th rounder
    Young: 1st rounder
    Smith: 1st rounder
    Ryan: 1st rounder

    Now, considering the young QBs (under 30) in the list, it goes to 66%:

    Rivers: 1st rounder
    Rodgers: 1st rounder
    Big Ben: 1st rounder
    Shaub: 3rd rounder
    Romo: undrafted
    Eli: 1st rounder
    Flacco: 1st rounder
    Orton: 4th rounder
    Campbell: 2nd rounder
    Young: 1st rounder
    Smith: 1st rounder
    Ryan: 1st rounder

    So, yeah, you can find a starting, quality QB outside of the 1st round/early 2nd (top 5 2nd). But odds are against it, specially nowadays...
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Nice post. That must have taken some time.
     
  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    More evidence to support:
    THANK
    GOD

    4
    AROD
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Thank you. Less than you'd think, really.

    Have to admit, I was expecting bigger numbers than shown, but I believe that's due to the recents surge of 1st round QBs.

    Even so, more than half the qbs being 1st rounders is a very expressive number.

    And I didn't take into account who I consider to be the top 10 QBs.

    In no order:

    Brees (early second)
    Payton Manning (1st)
    Rodgers (1st)
    Favre (early second)
    Rivers (1st)
    Ben (1st)
    Eli (1st)
    McNabb (1st)
    Brady (6th)
    Romo (undrafted)

    Well, it maintains it's 60% margin, and goes to 80% if you count that the 2nd rounders were chosen 32rd and 33rd... But that's an arbitrary list...
     
  13. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Cutler would be close if he has a year like he did in Denver, and he also was a 1st rounder.
    And you have Arizona going from undrafted Kurtis Warner to 1st rounder Matt Leinart.

    I believe Leinart will do better than many pundits expect.
    And in Denver, behind 6th rounder Kyle Orton, you have 1st rounders Brady Quinn and Timothy Tebow.

    Yes nice post which had to have taken a little while of not a lot!
    Thanks amigo.
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I don't know who will start this season, so...

    And, yes, Cutler could've been mentioned, but facts are he didn't have a very good season... He wasn't even in the top 20 in QB rating.

    If I looked at it from 2008, I'd have to add Cutler and Ryan also, both 1st rounders...
     
  15. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Nice post and good numbers. But tell me, which 1st rounders/early second rounder is going to be the QB of the future? You can't tell me. I took your oldest QB in your list, Favre, and went back to all the 1st and early second rounders picked. Total picked, 57, total of them as starters last year 19. 33%. So you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting a starting QB in the first or early second round. Now, some of the guys on my list will be starting on teams this year because they either switched teams or because of retirements. Drafting a qb in the 1st or 2nd is a crapshoot. Apparently Childress didn't like any of the guys he saw that were available to him.

    Just a short list of some of the stellar QB's taken in the first round since Favre was drafted.

    Klinger 6th
    Ramsey 32nd
    Druckenmiller 26th
    McGwire 16th
    McNown 12th
    Akili Smith 3rd
    Nagle 34th

    Most players in the skill positions are going to come from the 1st and 2nd round. I would be willing to bet that if you did the same for RB, and WR's the number would be about the same. The thing is, do you pick a QB just because he is available, or do you pick the best player at that time? You have to have good luck or a good eye. Do you take Alex Smith, or Rodgers? Does Rodgers do as well in SF if he is tossed into the mix right away? I doubt it. Does Smith do better if he sits behind Brett for a couple of years? Who knows. You never know were your next starting QB is coming from. For all we know it could be Joe Webb. Although he was not drafted for his QB abilities.
     
  16. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I know it's a hard work, but now take a look at the QBs taken later than that, during that period, and see the percentage which are starters.

    If the numbers are better than 10%, I'll shut my mouth and not bring this subject again. But I doubt it.

    You're right, it's hard to get a QB with 1st, early 2nd rounders. It's even harder with late round picks/undrafted players.

    Fact is it's THE hardest position to find, a starting QB. AND the most important. It only gets harder by picking later. Lucky us we have a young stud...

    Like I mentioned before, it's a QB driven league. In the past decade, only 2 teams have won the SB without an elite QB (Ravens and Bucs). Both had THE most dominant D in the league.

    Since 90 (20 years), 4 teams (NYG, WAS, TB and BAL).

    So, chances are, you won't find a very good QB after the top 40 picks, and you won't win without one. You could, but chances are you won't.
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Historically to draft a HOF level RB you almost have to find him high in the first round(I base this off of the top ten rushers in nfl history). There are currently some All Pro level RBs that were not drafted in the first round though (Mojo, Ray Rice).

    As far as the best WRs in the NFL today

    Andre Johnson - 1st round
    Wes Welker - Undrafted
    Miles Austin - Undrafted
    Sidney Rice - 2nd round
    Randy Moss- 1st round
    Reggie Wayne -1st round
    Santonio Holmes -1st round
    Steve Smith (Carolina) - 3rd round
    Hines Ward - 3rd round
    Vincent Jackson - 2nd round
    DeSean Jackson - 2nd round
    Greg Jennings - 2nd round
    Brandon Marshall - 4th round
    Larry Fitzgerald - 1st round
    Marques Colston - 7th round
    Donald Driver - 7th round
     
  18. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    I know your best option is to get a QB in the 1st or 2nd round, but you have to look at all your options. If they don't like the QB available, they don't pick them. You don't pick a QB because you may need one in two years. You pick one who you think will fit your team and who you think will do a good job. Childress as with many teams felt the QB's available were not worth the pick. They may or may not be correct. Only time will tell.

    Some of the players taken past the second round, all were starter's at one time in their career.

    Mark Brunell
    Elvic Grabec
    Gus Frerotte
    Matt Hasselbeck
    David Garrard
    Matt Schaub

    And I would say its less 10% or so but I don't have the time right now to do the math.
     
  19. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    I hate the Vikings as much as anyone, but Cris Carter not being in the Hall is ridiculous. Should've been first ballot.
     
  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I agree but let the prick wait. I cant stand him on tv.
     
  21. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Sterling isn't. Why should Carter be?

    BTW, everybody knows why Sterling isn't. Peter King has already admitted so. Some "journalists" just can't let it go that he didn't gave them an interview. Yeah. That's how the HoF works...
     
  22. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    Carter:
    REC: 1101
    YDS: 13,899
    TD: 130

    Sharpe:
    REC: 595
    YDS: 8134
    TD: 65

    That's why one should be in and I'm indifferent on the other.
     
  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Its going to hurt me to defend Chris Carter.

    Sterling didnt have a long enough career and Cris did. Cris played for 16 seasons while Sterling played for 7. Cris retired as #2 in most receiving stats. If it was almost any other position you would be a 1st ballot HOFer. His HOF status reminds me of Sterling's brother Shannon. Both retired with stats that rank them in the best at their position of all time but as time passes they are passed by current players.
     
  24. TheGiftedApe

    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    That'd be awesome if they got haynesworth, He's an overpaid cry baby, that is losing his Edge. Beside he will be old and use steroids in minnesota and get suspended.
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    One in 16 seasons, the other in 7.

    It's not his fault that he had a career ending injury. When he was active, he was arguably the #1 or #2 receiver, for his whole career. The same can't be said, IMHO about Carter...
     

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