A Packers fan base divided

[brandon2348]

Winning WOULD solve the problems, it's probably not going to happen.

Gotta just take it one week at a time right now and hope for the best. If they can't keep it afloat until Rodgers comes back then changes need to be made.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This does not give me warm and fuzzies on what the feelings are in Green Bay of Brett Hundley giving us a legitimate shot. My prediction is Joe Callahan is starting by Week 10.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/925752930837385216

Yah think? I don't believe we needed the Packers swinging and missing on Hoyer (if that was in fact the case) to know this. Hoyer got a 3 year deal from Hoodie who he played for his first three seasons. Thompson would not have offered three years or anything close to being compelling.

Hundley will have to take the long journey down the path from cockiness to confusion to performance pressure to focus to understanding to confidence. That does not get accomplished in a bye week. He's going to have to show improvement this Sunday or, as you say, plan C will be invoked sooner rather than later. If Hundley can get through a game without throwing a pick that will be progress.

 

[PikeBadger]

We are already doing this. We load up heavily on defense almost every draft. Either Ted is whiffing or Dom isn't using them very well.

Picking near the back ends of most drafts doesn't help, but teams like Seattle and Minnesota have been in similar positions and built successful defenses.

Both Seattle & Minnesota have had multiple top 16 picks in each round in the last 10 years. We only had that luxury in 2009.

They both have had some really good “hits” on defensive draft picks. Not so much on offense.

 

[brandon2348]

Both Seattle & Minnesota have had multiple top 16 picks in each round in the last 10 years. We only had that luxury in 2009.

They both have had some really good “hits” on defensive draft picks. Not so much on offense.

Seattle? Other then Earl Thomas all there top defenders were mid- later round picks or free agent aquisitions. In fact there were a couple years the Seahawks didn't even have a 1st round pick. Percy Harvin and Jimmie Graham trades.

Get your facts straight. There is no excuse at this point for our defense to not be good.

 

[Mavster]

Both Seattle & Minnesota have had multiple top 16 picks in each round in the last 10 years. We only had that luxury in 2009.

They both have had some really good “hits” on defensive draft picks. Not so much on offense.

Saw this stat in another forum.

"We've gone six consecutive seasons drafting a defensive player with our first pick. Since 2012, 20/29 1st-4th round picks have been defensive players."

Man if only one of those was a 'top 16 pick'. Rhodes, Smith, Griffen and Kendricks were all drafted in the 20s or later for Minny. Let's hear the next excuse

 

[brandon2348]

I'll say it one more time.

First get through the season. If these clowns cant keep it afloat until Rodgers comes back then they gotta go. Get Dorsey in there and actually build a Super Bowl roster. The picks and cap space are there for him to do it.

 

[weeds]

I've been *****ing about this crappy as$ 3-4 variant for the last 9 years and feel the need to be consistent.

It should not be incumbent on the Packers' QB1 to outrun his own defense. Doesn't matter that they played well for one half...

 

[HardRightEdge]

Seattle? Other then Earl Thomas all there top defenders were mid- later round picks or free agent aquisitions. In fact there were a couple years the Seahawks didn't even have a 1st round pick. Percy Harvin and Jimmie Graham trades.

Get your facts straight. There is no excuse at this point for our defense to not be good.

Right.

Seattle did not have a 1st. round pick in 2013, 2014, 2016 or 2017. Here's their starting defense which includes only one drafted 1st. round pick:

Bennett - acquired
Richardson - acquired
Reed - 49th. pick
Avril - acquired / Clark - 63rd. pick

Wagner - 47th. pick
Wright - 99th. pick
Wilhoite - acquired / Garvin - acquired

Sherman - 154th. pick
Chancellor - 133rd. pick
Thomas - 14th. pick
Lane - 172nd. pick / Griffin - 90th. pick

Compare to the Packer starting (nickel) defense with 5 first rounders plus King at #33:

Daniels - 132nd. pick
Clark - 27th. pick

Perry - 28th. pick
Matthews - 26th. pick
Martinez - 131st.pick
Burnett - 71st. pick / Ryan - 129th. pik

House - 131st. pick then acquired
King - 33rd. pick
Randall - 30th. pick
Clinton-Dix - 21st. pick
Brice - UDFA

 

[HardRightEdge]

Saw this stat in another forum.

"We've gone six consecutive seasons drafting a defensive player with our first pick. Since 2012, 20/29 1st-4th round picks have been defensive players."

Man if only one of those was a 'top 16 pick'. Rhodes, Smith, Griffen and Kendricks were all drafted in the 20s or later for Minny. Let's hear the next excuse

Kendricks went 45th. I had Kendricks as my preferred pick to the Packers in the first round. The Packers could even have traded down for him. Instead Thompson took Randall so that we could have the privilege of watching him play out of positions for 2 1/2 seasons. Maybe he'll yet be a decent corner but the learning curve has been awfully steep, complete with frustrations, tantrums and confusions.

The Packers could have picked Smith instead of Perry and we would not have had to wait 4 years to see a return on investment. And Perry was again injured this year with a broken hand. Will it ever end? Under a Smith draft scenario Clinton-Dix would not have been drafted and that pick could have been spent on a different 4-3 DE struggling with the conversion to OLB and with injuries.

Griffen was a 4th. round pick, #100.

Of the names you mentioned only Rhodes was off the board at the Packers pick, taken 2 slots ahead of the incredible shrinking Datone Jones.

 

[Alex]

Right.

Seattle did not have a 1st. round pick in 2013, 2014, 2016 or 2017. Here's their starting defense which includes only one drafted 1st. round pick:

Bennett - acquired
Richardson - acquired
Reed - 49th. pick
Avril - acquired / Clark - 63rd. pick

Wagner - 47th. pick
Wright - 99th. pick
Wilhoite - acquired / Garvin - acquired

Sherman - 154th. pick
Chancellor - 133rd. pick
Thomas - 14th. pick
Lane - 172nd. pick / Griffin - 90th. pick

Compare to the Packer starting (nickel) defense with 5 first rounders plus King at #33:

Daniels - 132nd. pick
Clark - 27th. pick

Perry - 28th. pick
Matthews - 26th. pick
Martinez - 131st.pick
Burnett - 71st. pick / Ryan - 129th. pik

House - 131st. pick then acquired
King - 33rd. pick
Randall - 30th. pick
Clinton-Dix - 21st. pick
Brice - UDFA

Depressing.

 

[PikeBadger]

Seattle? Other then Earl Thomas all there top defenders were mid- later round picks or free agent aquisitions. In fact there were a couple years the Seahawks didn't even have a 1st round pick. Percy Harvin and Jimmie Graham trades.

Get your facts straight. There is no excuse at this point for our defense to not be good.

I never said there was an excuse for our defense not to be good.

My facts are plenty straight. After you complete your “reading is fundamental” course, go back and read my post word for word. Being in the top 16 in draft pick order has advantages, but it takes more losses than wins to get in that position which is something that both Minnesota and Seattle have done 4 times over the last 10 years. Green Bay once.

Seattle especially has hit on some really good defensive players after the 1st round. Kudos to them.

 

[brandon2348]

I never said there was an excuse for our defense not to be good.

My facts are plenty straight. After you complete your “reading is fundamental” course, go back and read my post word for word. Being in the top 16 in draft pick order has advantages, but it takes more losses than wins to get in that position which is something that both Minnesota and Seattle have done 4 times over the last 10 years. Green Bay once.

Seattle especially has hit on some really good defensive players after the 1st round. Kudos to them.

Our draft position is no excuse as has been pointed out what other teams have achieved with lower round picks. It's just another of a long list of excuses why are defense hasn't progressed by some posters.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I agree.

Hard to believe that when AR was 30, TT was viewing Hundley as anything but good value in the 5th round. A guy that the Packers could develop and potentially turn into a good investment 3 or 4 years later by trading him away. Obviously, you have the value he provides as a backup before that happens. So far, that investment hasn't paid off, but who knows. For me, the more important thing is, what could the "opportunity cost" of having a guy that wasn't ready when needed be? What opportunities (wins, playoffs) does Hundley ultimately cost us, that maybe a seasoned vet might have been better at.

People keep bringing up the fact that you can't expect the Packers to have a solid #2 QB and all the vet FA QB's suck. First of all, are you only limited to FA's? Second, I agree, most of the FA QB's this past year weren't that great, but what most of them have, that Hundley doesn't, is experience. Sure Hundley is probably going to improve from where he is today, whereas a seasoned vet, isn't going to get much better. But how long will that take and at what cost?

Well, I doubt there is going to be any consensus on who should hold the reins from here on out in the season in Packerland in terms of who would be brought here as a seasoned vet. I wanted Ryan Mallett partly because his arm is stronger than Matt Flynn's or Hundley's and the fact that he had been reared in a pro-style offense and would have a less steeper learning curve to the playbook in my opinion than other vets out there. I understand his last stint in Houston didn't go well, but I heard his HC didn't want him there to begin with, and ... well up until DeShaun Watson took over this year that franchise has been a QB carousel anyway.

 

[PikeBadger]

Our draft position is no excuse as has been pointed out what other teams have achieved with lower round picks. It's just another of a long list of excuses why are defense hasn't progressed by some posters.

It isn’t an excuse, I also think Thompson has made some draft mistakes on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe Capers has done a poor job adapting his defense to players strengths. I still find it puzzling how he produced such a poor defense in 2011 with the same guys he had in 2010 that was so successful.

 

[swhitset]

Well, I doubt there is going to be any consensus on who should hold the reins from here on out in the season in Packerland in terms of who would be brought here as a seasoned vet. I wanted Ryan Mallett partly because his arm is stronger than Matt Flynn's or Hundley's and the fact that he had been reared in a pro-style offense and would have a less steeper learning curve to the playbook in my opinion than other vets out there. I understand his last stint in Houston didn't go well, but I heard his HC didn't want him there to begin with, and ... well up until DeShaun Watson took over this year that franchise has been a QB carousel anyway.

And apparently is again.... Watson out with probable ACL tear.

 

[brandon2348]

It isn’t an excuse, I also think Thompson has made some draft mistakes on the defensive side of the ball. I also believe Capers has done a poor job adapting his defense to players strengths. I still find it puzzling how he produced such a poor defense in 2011 with the same guys he had in 2010 that was so successful.

It's all very frustrating. I believe the talent is there. Hopefully they can turn it around Monday.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I posted this somewhere last year and I have no idea how it compares to the other 31 teams, but the amount of draft resources that the Packers have pumped into the defense in the last 6 drafts and the results, seem pretty pathetic. Meanwhile, our offense gets pretty much overlooked in the draft and has to basically rely on #12.


2012 1 Nick Perry 28 DE
2012 2 Jerel Worthy 51 DT
2012 2 Casey Hayward 62 DB
2012 4 Mike Daniels 132 DT
2012 4 Jerron McMillian 133 DB
2012 5 Terrell Manning 163 LB

2013 1 Datone Jones 26 DE
2013 5 Micah Hyde 159 DB
2013 5 Josh Boyd 167 DE
2013 6 Nate Palmer 193 LB
2013 7 Sam Barrington 232 LB

2014 1 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix 21 DB
2014 3 Khyri Thornton 85 DT
2014 4 Carl Bradford 121 LB
2014 6 Demetri Goodson 197 DB

2015 1 Damarious Randall 30 FS
2015 2 Quinten Rollins 62 CB
2015 4 Jake Ryan 129 OLB
2015 6 Christian Ringo 210 DE

2016 1 Kenny Clark 27 DT
2016 3 Kyler Fackrell 88 OLB
2016 4 Blake Martinez 131 LB
2016 4 Dean Lowry 137 DE

2017 2 Kevin King 33 CB
2017 2 Josh Jones 61 S
2017 3 Montravius Adams 93 DT
2017 4 Vince Biegel 108 LB 0 0 0 Wisconsin