A Packers fan base divided

[RepStar15]

It seems that there are 3 kinds of Packers fans right now:

1.) Blaming the defense for the last two losses

2.) Blamming the coaching for the last two losses

3.) Blaming the QB for the last two losses...

I am a #3, what are you?

 

[Mondio]

a mixture

That said, our defense has the individuals to be better. I really believe that. They played well enough to win that game, both of the last 2 games, but were unable to win it for us. They didn't play as badly as people want to make it see, but they clearly have work to do. This team can't seem to stop at 3rd and long, but it can certainly put teams in 3rd and long fairly often. What gives? Putting a team in 3rd and long is great, not being able to stop it is bad.

People can blame the coaches, and though I think Dom is a very smart coach and can coach, I don't think what he's doing is working. Just when I think it's all coaching, I see those big plays being given up by a guy that should be better, but blew his assignment on defense. I'll never understand those that think MM can't coach an offense. He's not perfect every game and has made his share of mistakes, but he's pretty dang good. and last year a lesser coach gets this team to 6 or 7 wins at best with how the team was trending and he kept them together and put them on that run. Give Rodgers all the credit you want, but the facts are lots of people were playing well in that stretch, and the coaching played it's part.

I'm not a huge Hundley fan at this point. I don't dislike him either. He can move, he can throw and has a fairly strong arm. He needs experience. There's no sugar coating the last outing though, it wasn't good. I think mediocre QB play wins us that game. I don't expect 10ypp and 30 completions at a 65% rate, but I do think 57-61 is pretty attainable and should be expected from him in this offense. If he starts doing that with 180-250 yards passing, people will be happy with how this team is doing. But he has a lot to do to get there.

 

[Carl 2]

I've never understood the fan trend to need to find a specific person or thing to find blame.

For example, only blaming the defense for playoff loses when the offense has played parts too or only blaming MM/play calling last week when Hundley was not good.

It's a combo of factors that Mondio just summarized well.

 

[rodell330]

Most of the blame should be the coaching. The fact that Capers still is here falls under coaching. His system hasn't worked in many years no matter who they've drafted.

Hundley isn't Aaron Rodgers . His strength is his legs. MM has done a horrible job these past two games having Hundley prepared to play.

The coaching in Green Bay isn't as good as the record says it is...now it's coming to light.

 

[Half Empty]

#2 caused #1 and #3

 

[Forget Favre]

I blame other teams when they beat us.

 

[XPack]

It seems that there are 3 kinds of Packers fans right now:

1.) Blaming the defense for the last two losses

2.) Blamming the coaching for the last two losses

3.) Blaming the QB for the last two losses...

I am a #3, what are you?

It's be really ridiculous to start the blame game for last 2 losses. None of the Above.

Now, if you had said last 2 seasons, it'd definitely be the coaching/management.

 

[Half Empty]

Other than, as post #6 points out, scoring less points than the other guys, is there no root cause for the previous losses?

 

[Zartan]

A mix of the coaching staff and the defense.

 

[OldSchool101]

IDK. I still believe a machine needs all its working parts. When one part fails it shows up throughout. Driver #12 does a tremendous job at masking the deficiencies of this race car but the race car had deficiencies before he went out.
Everyone involved gets credit when we’re winning. Everyone should share in the responsibility when we lose.

 

[Alex]

How can it be Hundley when he wasn't even allowed to throw the first half? They won't even let him get into any sort rhythm. Run, run, pass, punt. Throw some short slants, get creative for christ's sake. I'm a mixture of 1&2. This defense is horrible as always, and it's getting old.

 

[rodell330]

How can it be Hundley when he wasn't even allowed to throw the first half? They won't even let him get into any sort rhythm. Run, run, pass, punt. Throw some short slants, get creative for christ's sake. I'm a mixture of 1&2. This defense is horrible as always, and it's getting old.

So you vote coaching then haha

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

a mixture

That said, our defense has the individuals to be better. I really believe that. They played well enough to win that game, both of the last 2 games, but were unable to win it for us. They didn't play as badly as people want to make it see, but they clearly have work to do. This team can't seem to stop at 3rd and long, but it can certainly put teams in 3rd and long fairly often. What gives? Putting a team in 3rd and long is great, not being able to stop it is bad.

People can blame the coaches, and though I think Dom is a very smart coach and can coach, I don't think what he's doing is working. Just when I think it's all coaching, I see those big plays being given up by a guy that should be better, but blew his assignment on defense. I'll never understand those that think MM can't coach an offense. He's not perfect every game and has made his share of mistakes, but he's pretty dang good. and last year a lesser coach gets this team to 6 or 7 wins at best with how the team was trending and he kept them together and put them on that run. Give Rodgers all the credit you want, but the facts are lots of people were playing well in that stretch, and the coaching played it's part.

I'm not a huge Hundley fan at this point. I don't dislike him either. He can move, he can throw and has a fairly strong arm. He needs experience. There's no sugar coating the last outing though, it wasn't good. I think mediocre QB play wins us that game. I don't expect 10ypp and 30 completions at a 65% rate, but I do think 57-61 is pretty attainable and should be expected from him in this offense. If he starts doing that with 180-250 yards passing, people will be happy with how this team is doing. But he has a lot to do to get there.

Well said and I know you probably won't agree with me, but I would add to it that some of this is on TT and the Draft and Develop philosophy he runs the Packers under. Yes, the Packers and us fans probably all thought Hundley was a great guy to have as our #2. However, should a team that is usually in contention for a SB run, especially one that relies so heavily on Aaron Rodgers, be content to rely on a 5th round draft pick, with virtually no regular season experience to be their backup? I guess we will see how that plays out in the next 9 games, but so far I am unimpressed.

 

[Mondio]

Well said and I know you probably won't agree with me, but I would add to it that some of this is on TT and the Draft and Develop philosophy he runs the Packers under. Yes, the Packers and us fans probably all thought Hundley was a great guy to have as our #2. However, should a team that is usually in contention for a SB run, especially one that relies so heavily on Aaron Rodgers, be content to rely on a 5th round draft pick, with virtually no regular season experience to be their backup? I guess we will see how that plays out in the next 9 games, but so far I am unimpressed.

don't take this the wrong way, but so what. Look at that FA QB list from 2017. Look at it. There's a bunch of never was beens on there, never freaking were, never will be. 1 guy on a team with an exceptional defense that hasn't won anything in recent memory and a running game seems to be doing OK at the moment. That's it. Hundley may very well suck. But I look at that list and I see guys all over the place that aren't taking anybody anywhere ever and they've already proven it. Most of them on a few different teams.

Hundley doesn't impress much yet either. But you think getting Case Keenum here would make a difference? I don't care if he's having success with the vikings over a couple weeks, the guy sucks. he has a weak arm and is fortunate to be playing for a team that can absorb playing with a ****** QB. But you know what, that team is built on defense, you also know what, they haven't won crap in recent history either. I'd feel as good about our chances going forward with one of those available vet backups as I do with Hundley. Probably even less so, as i've seen them suck repeatedly. At least with Hundley he still looks to be able to move, run and has a strong arm. Which is 3 positives more than most of the rest of them. Maybe he doesn't get.

 

[Carl 2]

How can it be Hundley when he wasn't even allowed to throw the first half? They won't even let him get into any sort rhythm. Run, run, pass, punt. Throw some short slants, get creative for christ's sake. I'm a mixture of 1&2. This defense is horrible as always, and it's getting old.

When he was allowed to throw, he wasn't very good at it though.

 

[sschind]

I gave you an agree because I agree but I wish I could give you a like as well just for the "never was beens"

I'm going from memory but of all the FA QBs available I can't think of one I would have rather had than sticking with Hundley. Why invest 3 years in a guy if you are only going to dump him when its his turn. A guy can come in and win a a few games like Keenum has but is it something anyone really expected. I don't want to call it a fluke because the guy deserves some credit (although the vikings defense doesn't hurt his efforts) but people see a QB like that and say "gee I wish we had him" but had we signed him they would have been saying "why? He sucks"

I just find it funny that people are lamenting the fact that we don't have an experienced veteran backup when others were claiming just a few months ago tht they wouldn't trade our backup (Hundley) for anything less than a 1st rounder. I realize they are probably not the same people but Im sure more than a few people ragging on BH now were some of the same ones who were saying at least give him a chance.

The list of quality starting QBs in the NFL is not 32 deep so it is unrealistic to expect more than a handful of teams to have a backup who can .come in with little drop in production. Unless you want to pay an aging veteran you are going to be stuck with unproven young guys or the never was beens

 

[Alex]

When he was allowed to throw, he wasn't very good at it though.

Fair, but I'd have like to have seen them run shorter routes to help get him going and build some confidence. Set picks, run slants, use Kendricks as a flat option and Bennett as a dump off after blocking. Try something other than run, run, pass 20 yards.

 

[Mondio]

I gave you an agree because I agree but I wish I could give you a like as well just for the "never was beens"

I'm going from memory but of all the FA QBs available I can't think of one I would have rather had than sticking with Hundley. Why invest 3 years in a guy if you are only going to dump him when its his turn. A guy can come in and win a a few games like Keenum has but is it something anyone really expected. I don't want to call it a fluke because the guy deserves some credit (although the vikings defense doesn't hurt his efforts) but people see a QB like that and say "gee I wish we had him" but had we signed him they would have been saying "why? He sucks"

I just find it funny that people are lamenting the fact that we don't have an experienced veteran backup when others were claiming just a few months ago tht they wouldn't trade our backup (Hundley) for anything less than a 1st rounder. I realize they are probably not the same people but Im sure more than a few people ragging on BH now were some of the same ones who were saying at least give him a chance.

The list of quality starting QBs in the NFL is not 32 deep so it is unrealistic to expect more than a handful of teams to have a backup who can .come in with little drop in production. Unless you want to pay an aging veteran you are going to be stuck with unproven young guys or the never was beens

i came up with the "never was beens" on the spot too. Talk about performance under pressure LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In keeping with my "some of this is on TT" theme and honoring both Mondio and Sschind's post, which I agree mostly with, what does that say for the way TT has built this team? Consistently forcing the team to rely on inexperienced and unproven depth at many positions. TT actually strayed away from this a bit this year, by signing 2 vet TE's, House, Brooks and Evans and it has paid off.

Right now, the Packers success centers around one guy, Aaron Rodgers. Why? Because TT has been able to get by building an average to below average defense, despite all the draft resources and FA's (this year) that he has thrown at it. Meanwhile, building an offense that is great with AR, but probably no better than average without him. Of course Case Keenum probably wouldn't guide the current Packer Roster to the Super Bowl. Hell, Aaron Rodgers hasn't been able to. But what does that say for the job TT has done, when one guy gets hurt and the team goes from looking like a contender to team that might be lucky to win 3 more games?

To me the bottom line is Hundley so far looks unprepared and inexperienced and had AR only been out 2-4 games, I would have much rather have had a guy taking over that wasn't new to running a team when it counts, a guy that probably at least keeps us in the running until AR came back and isn't learning on the job. But with AR probably done for the season, at least now Hundley will get that experience he needs and the Packers, as well as the rest of the NFL, will actually see if he is any good.

 

[OldSchool101]

We’ve obviously got a lot invested in Hundley. This one player at backup QB could have a profound effect on how we view TT and MM in the near future. There’s a lot resting on this kid and it’s actually a huge opportunity for Brett because this is a major prove it deal and we’ve pushed all our chips in on this hand. I can only think that our coaches have seen enough of him that they believe at some point he opens his wings and soars.
The only thing I don’t comprehend is our reluctance to get someone behind him learning our playbook with more experience while the weeks pass us by in the event of injury etc..

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We’ve obviously got a lot invested in Hundley. This one player at backup QB could have a profound effect on how we view TT and MM in the near future. There’s a lot resting on this kid and it’s actually a huge opportunity for Brett because this is a major prove it deal and we’ve pushed all our chips in on this hand. I can only think that our coaches have seen enough of him that they believe at some point he opens his wings and soars.
The only thing I don’t comprehend is our reluctance to get someone behind him learning our playbook with more experience while the weeks pass us by in the event of injury etc..

I agree with what you are saying, but we only "invested" a 5th round pick in Hundley, which if you look back at previous drafts, 5th round picks were mostly spent on players who never amounted to much. I would much rather have invested that pick on a guy that maybe one day becomes a starter (Linsley/Hyde) or at least a contributor at another position. When you have a FHOF QB like AR, you don't need to develop a guy behind a 30 year old (when Hundley was drafted), but what you do need is someone capable of stepping right in if needed. Just not feeling that is what the Packers got in Hundley, so far.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

We’ve obviously got a lot invested in Hundley. This one player at backup QB could have a profound effect on how we view TT and MM in the near future. There’s a lot resting on this kid and it’s actually a huge opportunity for Brett because this is a major prove it deal and we’ve pushed all our chips in on this hand. I can only think that our coaches have seen enough of him that they believe at some point he opens his wings and soars.
The only thing I don’t comprehend is our reluctance to get someone behind him learning our playbook with more experience while the weeks pass us by in the event of injury etc..

Yeah, but I don't know though. Did we actually draft Hundley with him in mind as Rodgers's successor? Or did we just get him as a stopgap for times like these? I was thinking perhaps TT had hoped maybe he could get a QB who was going to be of a futuristic offensive mold and then wanted him showcased off just enough that another team would bite and look for a trade deal or something. The way it's looking now though, unless we can get him performing up to par, his stock is going to be going way down by the time his contract ends. I wouldn't know, but my assumption is that the plan was somewhere on those lines.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, but I don't know though. Did we actually draft Hundley with him in mind as Rodgers's successor? Or did we just get him as a stopgap for times like these? I was thinking perhaps TT had hoped maybe he could get a QB who was going to be of a futuristic offensive mold and then wanted him showcased off just enough that another team would bite and look for a trade deal or something. The way it's looking now though, unless we can get him performing up to par, his stock is going to be going way down by the time his contract ends. I wouldn't know, but my assumption is that the plan was somewhere on those lines.

I agree.

Hard to believe that when AR was 30, TT was viewing Hundley as anything but good value in the 5th round. A guy that the Packers could develop and potentially turn into a good investment 3 or 4 years later by trading him away. Obviously, you have the value he provides as a backup before that happens. So far, that investment hasn't paid off, but who knows. For me, the more important thing is, what could the "opportunity cost" of having a guy that wasn't ready when needed be? What opportunities (wins, playoffs) does Hundley ultimately cost us, that maybe a seasoned vet might have been better at.

People keep bringing up the fact that you can't expect the Packers to have a solid #2 QB and all the vet FA QB's suck. First of all, are you only limited to FA's? Second, I agree, most of the FA QB's this past year weren't that great, but what most of them have, that Hundley doesn't, is experience. Sure Hundley is probably going to improve from where he is today, whereas a seasoned vet, isn't going to get much better. But how long will that take and at what cost?

 

[HardRightEdge]

#3 has exposed the weaknesses in #1 and #2.

I expect somewhere along the line Hundley will have a decent game or two. It will be too little too late.

 

[RepStar15]

I guess I’m one of the only ones that blames Hundley. I just feel I did not see much hope in him, which could be premature on my part. But if it is not premature, and he continues to look like he did against the saints and Vikings, how does a guy that gets to observe one of the best in the game be so bad after 2 full seasons behind him?