2026 Roster Thread - Semi-Live

gopkrs

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Ju
All pressures influence the QB...sometimes the QB however still completes the pass...doesn't change the pressure caused an adjustment or rush.
Just not true. I've seen so many pressures by Rashon that just weren't worth a damn
 
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tynimiller

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Ju

Just not true. I've seen so many pressures by Rashon that just weren't worth a damn

I've never seen his credited pressures via PFF been that crazy off, is that the stat source you use or is it another you see be so far off?
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I recall a post-season poll of players who were not happy with MLF, and I think it was along these lines - unhappy with how they were being used, or not used.

That could be a big issue and depends where it's coming from. In a universe of only 53 guys, it doesn't take much to create such a polling outcome.

With the crazy amount of money that now divides starters and those 2-5 deep on the roster, players are even more motivated to try and push for playing time. That said, earn your starts and reps. Don't B*tch about not getting enough in the locker room and on the sidelines. I look at what Wicks got paid by the Eagles, as do other players and I just shake my head.
 

Krabs

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Nice breakdown and "grading" of the Packers roster by Andy Herman today.

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I like Andy, but I do think some of his grading was a bit bias towards the Packers. Or, should I say, an optimistic fan.

QB: Love & Taylor: Still not completely sold that Love can take us to the promised land. I would say he is a 4. He's at the very least in the top 15 and probably closer to the top 10. I'm not excited about the Tyrod Taylor signing at all. I think they could have done better.
RB: Jacobs, Lloyd, Brooks are easily the top three. This group concerns me a lot. Jacobs took a step backwards and I don't consider the rest starting caliber RBs. I'd go a 2.5 here.
OL: I agree with Herman. It's a 2.5. It could be worse and I'm hopeful there is a surprise veteran signing.
TE: It is Kraft and everyone else. He takes it to a 4. Hopefully, the rest of the room steps up.
WR: I really like this group. I'm at a 3.5 with exactly the same preface. They have to stay healthy.
DL: I believe Herman had them at a 2.5, which is where I would go too. All depends on Hargrave and Wyatt's bounce back with the combination of McCellan.
LB: Easily a 4. Parsons and Cooper get us there. I like Franklin at being at least average.
CB: 2, they are ***. Easily the worst group and the most concern. I've had enough of Nixon for sure. He keeps me up at night.
S: 4, definately and above average group. Hopefully, they can step up for the *** corner play.
 

Schultz

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I really have to wonder if what MLF said earlier this year about some guys not being happy in their roles had something to do with deciding against signing Claypool? Both Doubs and Wicks were 2 guys that had been linked to players wanting more opportunities and they are not longer with the team. If that was the case, why even invite Claypool to tryout? A favor to his agent?

Anyway, I wouldn't have had a problem with creating more competition for roster positions in May. Earn your spot on the team, earn your reps and targets.
Wasn't there talk about Reed being unhappy after the Golden pick, or maybe it was after mimi-camp?
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I like Andy, but I do think some of his grading was a bit bias towards the Packers. Or, should I say, an optimistic fan.

Agree. However, I do think much of his grading was a "if we stay relatively healthy" type of grading. While he did mention depth and injuries, I think there are positions like QB, RB, TE, S that if our main guy (star player) goes down for an extended period of time, we are in a world of hurt.
 

gopkrs

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I've never seen his credited pressures via PFF been that crazy off, is that the stat source you use or is it another you see be so far off?
Yes, he might get close enough to the QB to call it a pressure. That doesn't mean it was an effective rush imo. That's why I don't like that stat very much.
 

gopkrs

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I like Andy, but I do think some of his grading was a bit bias towards the Packers. Or, should I say, an optimistic fan.

QB: Love & Taylor: Still not completely sold that Love can take us to the promised land. I would say he is a 4. He's at the very least in the top 15 and probably closer to the top 10. I'm not excited about the Tyrod Taylor signing at all. I think they could have done better.
RB: Jacobs, Lloyd, Brooks are easily the top three. This group concerns me a lot. Jacobs took a step backwards and I don't consider the rest starting caliber RBs. I'd go a 2.5 here.
OL: I agree with Herman. It's a 2.5. It could be worse and I'm hopeful there is a surprise veteran signing.
TE: It is Kraft and everyone else. He takes it to a 4. Hopefully, the rest of the room steps up.
WR: I really like this group. I'm at a 3.5 with exactly the same preface. They have to stay healthy.
DL: I believe Herman had them at a 2.5, which is where I would go too. All depends on Hargrave and Wyatt's bounce back with the combination of McCellan.
LB: Easily a 4. Parsons and Cooper get us there. I like Franklin at being at least average.
CB: 2, they are ***. Easily the worst group and the most concern. I've had enough of Nixon for sure. He keeps me up at night.
S: 4, definately and above average group. Hopefully, they can step up for the *** corner play.
I'm not counting out Cisse starting. I Hope they give him every chance. That right there would change the corner grade a lot.
 
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tynimiller

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Yes, he might get close enough to the QB to call it a pressure. That doesn't mean it was an effective rush imo. That's why I don't like that stat very much.

The way I've had pressure expressed to me is their presence had to rush or cause the QB to have to move their feet. Just pushing the pocket from the backside but the QB is oblivious to you doesn't constitute a pressure. Let me see if I can find that decription as I believe it was from PFF.
 

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The way I've had pressure expressed to me is their presence had to rush or cause the QB to have to move their feet. Just pushing the pocket from the backside but the QB is oblivious to you doesn't constitute a pressure. Let me see if I can find that decription as I believe it was from PFF.
That is how I have always understood it. Pressure causes the QB to change something (position, focus, progression, throwing motion, etc.).

That said, some QBs handle pressure better than others. Some QBs excel when they are flushed out of the pocket by pressure. Therefore, just because pressure was applied does not mean that it will affect the outcome of a play. Nonetheless, pressure was applied.
 

Krabs

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I'm not counting out Cisse starting. I Hope they give him every chance. That right there would change the corner grade a lot.
And, I hate having this attitude, but it can't be much worse. At the very least, starting Cisse would give him experience to build on.
 
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Seriously...this extension by Reed is an example of a guy that realizes what he has with Love and GB and wanted his money but also wanted that consistency....this contract yes does easily have an out for the team after the 2027 season ($7M savings) BUT if Reed produces like he always has when healthy (and stays relatively healthy) that $17.6 and $17.2 a year in 2028 and 2029 by that time likely might seem like a steal!

Man...

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Yes
Reed has an average Cap hit of less than <$12Mil per year from
2027-2029. That’s a steal from a 1,000 yard, quality producer.
 
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Yes. Pressures might be underated to the average fan. But I don't think that they grade them well at all.
not sure if I understand.

How do/would you grade pressures?

or

Which part of the grading are you referring to?
 
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Thirteen Below

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What’s crazy is that Lukas is just 24yrs old until this July. So he’s highly likely not at his peak. He came into GB as a Sophomore with very little college experience (25 games played).
Not only that, he only played 2 years of varsity football in high school. 2 years of high school ball, and 2 years of college ball is all he had under his belt when he showed up in Green Bay.

He was always going to be a project.


That is the line I use on women in bars a lot! ;)
Do you by any chance happen to maintain a list of bars where that tends to work really well?
 
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tynimiller

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Let’s just say if I had Gary’s "pressure" stats in one hand and a nickel in the other, I’d have five cents
I struggle to even comprehend how folks make such statements...it's actually IMO one of the worst traits we as fans fall victim to....this is just untrue.

FTR this is NOT anything against Magooch, actually like you, this is about making such statements when discussing sports or our teams as fans.
 

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I am fully comfortable with our WR room, now next off season some building is likely to be needed, but we have been spoiled with our depth there for sure...but Watson / Reed / Golden / Savion / Moore and Melton is not a bad room at all...then factor in Kraft too.

Now I will say something that will likely get a ton of people up in arms, but I truly think a call to Lazard should be placed. Minimum type contract deal, build in some incentives incase playing time is needed but having a capable guy, who can block and honestly has solid hands as your WR4 with Savion would help calm the waves sure to happen at times during the season.
Where is Lazard now? Is he even on a roster?
 

Heyjoe4

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I struggle to even comprehend how folks make such statements...it's actually IMO one of the worst traits we as fans fall victim to....this is just untrue.

FTR this is NOT anything against Magooch, actually like you, this is about making such statements when discussing sports or our teams as fans.
Neither you or Magooch offered any stats on pressures/sacks from Gary last season. Do you know what they were? I read Magooch's comment as Gary not contributing at all as far as pressures

And a suggestion FWIW - rather than subjectively lambasting someone for making the "worst" comment a member of the forum can make, ask for some clarification first. I'm not sure what Magooch is basing his comment of Gary's "pressures" on, but give him a chance to explain.
 
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tynimiller

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Neither you or Magooch offered any stats on pressures/sacks from Gary last season. Do you know what they were? I read Magooch's comment as Gary not contributing at all as far as pressures

And a suggestion FWIW - rather than subjectively lambasting someone for making the "worst" comment a member of the forum can make, ask for some clarification first. I'm not sure what Magooch is basing his comment of Gary's "pressures" on, but give him a chance to explain.

I never made statements declaring like he did - and the whole point as some imply is his pressures were useless and false reporting....so I didn't waste my time producing pressure figures.
 

Heyjoe4

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I never made statements declaring like he did - and the whole point as some imply is his pressures were useless and false reporting....so I didn't waste my time producing pressure figures.
That's fair. Yeah Gary didn't set the world on fire, but his production wasn't zero. I get your point.
 

Magooch

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My point is to say that all stats are basically useless without context...and this is *especially* true for the "advanced" stats like pressure/win rate/etc.

Presented on their own these measures don't speak at all to...

who were they lined up against?
who was providing pass rush on the opposite side?
what kind of stunts were called? did they have blitzing support?
was it a "designed pressure" on the part of the offense (for instance, a screen pass may often "invite" a pressure and the defender gets credited for it, but that's how the play was intended to function)
what was the game situation/context? Was the opponent "chasing" the game and playing catchup? Did both sides have their starting personnel out there?

Did the player *actually* influence the play in any perceptible way?

For instance, with pressures in particular, there is both an "objective" and "subjective" definition. The subjective definition (which seems to be more commonplace) more or less says that if the QB is touched, flushed out of the pocket, forced to scrambled, hurried, or has his throw/progression impacted, it's a pressure. Objectively, for example, Next Gen Stats says "any pass attempt or sack where a defender was within 2 yards of the QB at pass forward or within 1.5 yards of the QB at any point during the play" is a pressure. So you can understand how there is plenty of room for interpretation here on both counts.

And beyond all that: do the numbers line up with what your eyes are telling you? I've said it before that we should not evaluate solely on eye-test - there's a tendency to see what we want to see (or ignore that which we don't) and this is an inherently subjective way to assess*. But we should also not rely solely on the numbers OR fall into the mistake of (perhaps subconsciously) assuming that all statistics are created equal and should be weighted the same....or that these measures are by themselves predictive of future performance

*of course, as noted, many pressure statistics are created precisely by the "eye test" in the first place, so maybe we have come full-circle...

So to bring it back around, when you look at Gary's stat sheet...there are a number of measures that you might look at and conclude that he must be a pretty good player and he must've had a good year. Do your eyes tell you the same? (In this case obviously the team - having access to the same statistics and then some - felt that his pressure numbers were not good enough to warrant keeping around)
We can say "LVN had a great pass rush win rate last season!" and that may be objectively true in itself but also itself doesn't support many of the conclusions we might want to draw from that. It doesn't provide any reliable predictive measure and it doesn't address any of the above-outlined context concerns.

So yes, in a nutshell...if you have "raw" pressure statistics in one hand and a nickel in the other, you have five cents. Now if you have a nickel in one hand, and pressure statistics that are provided in-context, outlining the game situation, personnel, playcalling, measurable impact on the play outcome, and demonstrate alignment with the eye-test, well, then you might really have something!
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Where is Lazard now? Is he even on a roster?

I liked Lazard but the plain truth is; he was another, of many, "JAG WR's" that Aaron Rodgers was asked to play with. Fans get all excited about stats and TD's, but as a WR on an NFL team, especially with a solid QB, you will achieve all of those. That doesn't make you a great WR, just one that has had opportunities.

I wish Lazard the best, but seeing that he didn't play much last year and was healthy, his days in the NFL might be numbered.
 

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