2023 week 7:post bye game in the Mile high city vs Broncos

Krabs

I take offense to that sir.
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After losing to the Raiders, I knew the season was a wash. So in this Denver game, why couldn't we just ride Jones until he took himself out? He was having success!
They said that Jones was on a "pitch count". IMO, either play him or don't. The whole keeping players fresh and healthy for the long haul is a bad strategy. As seen yesterday, it just leads to losses and there is no long haul.
And WRs were getting open against the crappy Denver D. Everyone is going to put the blame on Love now for not finding the open targets. But I gotta blame Lafleur because WE ARE COMING OFF OF A BYE! Create plays around Jones. If they crowd the box, then screen pass. Putting Love in these big pass play positions was a bad plan. Green Bay defense is not good, but they held Denver under 20 so they get a pass...this week.
Jordan Love has more than proven to me he is inept playing the QB position. While I'm in favor of cleaning house with this coaching staff, it's hard to call plays when your QB play is terrible.
Who's worse than GB..? Chicago? Carolina? Nobody?
I would say Carolina is worse. I think we are about to go on a 7 game losing streak on top of our last 3 losses. 10 losses in a row should get everyone fired. MN, LA Rams, Pitt, LA Chargers, Det, NY Giants, TB, all are losses. Maybe they get lucky and sneak one out. I don't think so. I think they are worse than those opponents. I'll give them a chance in the last 3 games. Carolina, MN, and Chi.
Lafleur is good guy, he has allot of friends and will always find a job, but he has to go at season end. He'll probably get another year and make Barry or Love the scapegoat.
Love is not a scapegoat. He is a big reason the Packers are a bad football team. He is the statistically the worst of any starter in the league in completion percentage at 57.5. He's just ahead of Brian Hoyer. He's also tossed 7 interceptions, which is 2nd worst in the league.
 

tynimiller

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Love is not a scapegoat. He is a big reason the Packers are a bad football team. He is the statistically the worst of any starter in the league in completion percentage at 57.5. He's just ahead of Brian Hoyer. He's also tossed 7 interceptions, which is 2nd worst in the league.

To be fair to Love you have to acknowledge all aspects good and bad, terrible and great. Anyone can make the bible or any news excerpt sound the way they want if you pull one snippet of it.

So while I am fully loaded with negatives and positives to Love I'll offer the counter point to your isolated stat: In the third quarter Love is one of the best in the whole entire league and has a passer rating of 133.9....I've said it elsewhere our offense is a literal case of Jekyll and Hyde, because our first half we look like a high school team and second half (especially third quarter) we are actually both to the eyes and the stats one of the best in the entire league - better than the Chiefs, Eagles, Dolphins, Niners...it is NUTS.

Little more on something which points to why I'm so frustrated with MLF's playcalling....

He still continues to excel honestly in the middle around that 10 yard mark as well...which is why when you look at MLF's playcalling especially in the first half it MAKES ZERO sense. Love proved at college and now in the NFL to excel at intermediate throws yet I swear there have been entire quarters where MLF continued to call short passes or even negative screen or dumps...which we do not presently have a roster made for such. His current chart and rating:

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Atrocious comes to mind for deep balls this year for Love...otherwise that is not a bad statistical pass breakdown at all truthfully. Here is Rodgers 2022:

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And those numbers are from a Rodgers that saw average of 9 pressures a game with Love seeing 11 average per game...which isn't a shocker due to our OL woes.

Accuracy is an issue for sure overall and that is illustrated even with Love's adjusted % (taking into account when WRs drop it or clearly run wrong route) he is only at 65.6%...Rodgers lived above 70% for this figure just for a recency comp and even broke 80% in 2021.

Again though, if Love or MLF could simply be the team they are in the 3rd quarter for one more quarter...not even two more just one...there is a VERY high chance we have one or two more wins...if this team simply had a pulse in the first half 75% of the way to who they are in the 3rd quarter we would be sitting at one loss IMO.

FLIPSIDE

If this team stops being absolutely BEASTLY in the 3rd quarter and awesome in the second half....and it all starts to look like the first half...we are not winning another game - not the Bears, not the Panthers....that is how bad our first halves are.

Our first halves will lose to anyone...our second halves can compete or beat anyone.
 

Krabs

I take offense to that sir.
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To be fair to Love you have to acknowledge all aspects good and bad, terrible and great. Anyone can make the bible or any news excerpt sound the way they want if you pull one snippet of it.

So while I am fully loaded with negatives and positives to Love I'll offer the counter point to your isolated stat: In the third quarter Love is one of the best in the whole entire league and has a passer rating of 133.9....I've said it elsewhere our offense is a literal case of Jekyll and Hyde, because our first half we look like a high school team and second half (especially third quarter) we are actually both to the eyes and the stats one of the best in the entire league - better than the Chiefs, Eagles, Dolphins, Niners...it is NUTS.
Respectfully, I'm tired of people talking about how good Love has been in the 3rd quarter. As you note below, that's not going to win games and I feel it is just an anomaly in the data. The idea that his passer rating for full games is a snippet as opposed to literally snipping just the 3rd quarter stats doesn't jive with me.
Little more on something which points to why I'm so frustrated with MLF's playcalling....

He still continues to excel honestly in the middle around that 10 yard mark as well...which is why when you look at MLF's playcalling especially in the first half it MAKES ZERO sense. Love proved at college and now in the NFL to excel at intermediate throws yet I swear there have been entire quarters where MLF continued to call short passes or even negative screen or dumps...which we do not presently have a roster made for such. His current chart and rating:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!


Atrocious comes to mind for deep balls this year for Love...otherwise that is not a bad statistical pass breakdown at all truthfully. Here is Rodgers 2022:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!


And those numbers are from a Rodgers that saw average of 9 pressures a game with Love seeing 11 average per game...which isn't a shocker due to our OL woes.
I've also grown tired of the comparisons with Rodgers. He's far from Rodgers abilities.
Accuracy is an issue for sure overall and that is illustrated even with Love's adjusted % (taking into account when WRs drop it or clearly run wrong route) he is only at 65.6%...Rodgers lived above 70% for this figure just for a recency comp and even broke 80% in 2021.

Again though, if Love or MLF could simply be the team they are in the 3rd quarter for one more quarter...not even two more just one...there is a VERY high chance we have one or two more wins...if this team simply had a pulse in the first half 75% of the way to who they are in the 3rd quarter we would be sitting at one loss IMO.
I don't disagree. They could easily be 5-1, but it would be total smoke and mirrors. Bad teams find a way to lose and they're finding plenty of them. Keep in mind, these are not good football teams the Packers are losing to. Even if they sneaked these victories out I wouldn't be sold. I've never been one to cheer for my team to lose, but it might be the best for them.
FLIPSIDE

If this team stops being absolutely BEASTLY in the 3rd quarter and awesome in the second half....and it all starts to look like the first half...we are not winning another game - not the Bears, not the Panthers....that is how bad our first halves are.

Our first halves will lose to anyone...our second halves can compete or beat anyone.
I think the 3rd quarter success that has been seen goes back to the opponents as well. I just don't see this team competing this season. You raise some good points and I don't mean to just shrug them off. I appreciate the glass half full perspective and the conversation about the situation the Packers are in.
 

tynimiller

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Respectfully, I'm tired of people talking about how good Love has been in the 3rd quarter. As you note below, that's not going to win games and I feel it is just an anomaly in the data. The idea that his passer rating for full games is a snippet as opposed to literally snipping just the 3rd quarter stats doesn't jive with me.

It isn't just 3rd quarter as I said, it's quite literally HALF the game. Watching the film of the games and pushing stats aside it is just as clear. Love and MLF are not the same people in a half of a game. It's literally cutting the rating you speak of into the biggest two chunks of time which comprise it.

I don't take issue with anyone that feels Love is terrible and should be cut - I personally feel the film, observations and production breakdowns show way too much of both sides of the coin to come to a conclusion yet.
I've also grown tired of the comparisons with Rodgers. He's far from Rodgers abilities.

Which of course is true, not saying it isn't. Shoot through seven weeks last year when we were not better record wise really measurably (3-4) Rodgers passer rating was above 90...Love is 79.44. He is NOT the level of QB play we have grown accustom to in GB. Also true is Love is being asked to continue that play however with the same team Rodgers had offensively but subtract Lazard, Cobb, Tonyan, Lewis, Jones (pretty much been out all year), Bakh (we got him for 11 games...bout 7 full time last year....and inserted a ton of rookies or first year starters. no?

I don't disagree. They could easily be 5-1, but it would be total smoke and mirrors. Bad teams find a way to lose and they're finding plenty of them. Keep in mind, these are not good football teams the Packers are losing to. Even if they sneaked these victories out I wouldn't be sold. I've never been one to cheer for my team to lose, but it might be the best for them.

I think the 3rd quarter success that has been seen goes back to the opponents as well. I just don't see this team competing this season. You raise some good points and I don't mean to just shrug them off. I appreciate the glass half full perspective and the conversation about the situation the Packers are in.

The issue I take is there is just as much evidence to make a case for glass half full as there is glass half empty...but far too often either side fails to acknowledge evidence that doesn't fit with their narrative. I do personally think in about four weeks time or so, the evidence will be mounting more one way or the other....at least I hope.

My worst fear is we continue this jekyll and hyde season and we will be sitting here week 12 just as befuddled when you look at everything.
 

milani

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They said that Jones was on a "pitch count". IMO, either play him or don't. The whole keeping players fresh and healthy for the long haul is a bad strategy. As seen yesterday, it just leads to losses and there is no long haul.

Jordan Love has more than proven to me he is inept playing the QB position. While I'm in favor of cleaning house with this coaching staff, it's hard to call plays when your QB play is terrible.

I would say Carolina is worse. I think we are about to go on a 7 game losing streak on top of our last 3 losses. 10 losses in a row should get everyone fired. MN, LA Rams, Pitt, LA Chargers, Det, NY Giants, TB, all are losses. Maybe they get lucky and sneak one out. I don't think so. I think they are worse than those opponents. I'll give them a chance in the last 3 games. Carolina, MN, and Chi.

Love is not a scapegoat. He is a big reason the Packers are a bad football team. He is the statistically the worst of any starter in the league in completion percentage at 57.5. He's just ahead of Brian Hoyer. He's also tossed 7 interceptions, which is 2nd worst in the league.
So our SB this year is Carolina for New Year. Should be a lot of hype for that one. Let us call it the 27th anniversary of the Packer-Panther NFC Championship played in 3 degrees. Bring back Favre, Kerry Collins, Kevin Greene, Chris Jacke, Antonio Freeman. RIP Sam Mills.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Love's up and down performances have been no different than the entire teams up and down performances. You've got young WR's and TE's missing blocks, not running good/correct routes and yes, you have Love making some bad decisions, as well as making some poor throws. Throw in an inconsistent offensive line and a HC that seems to be at a loss as to what plays will work and its a mess on offense.

It really feels like opposing defenses are inside the Packers playbook and know exactly what offensive play is coming. The short screens and quick wide-out passes just aren't there. Rub routes should work, but not when your TE or WR isn't positioning themselves correctly to execute them.

Back to reality. I expected this kind of season, a lot of ups and downs. Love needs to be put into positions where he can find some consistent success. That is hard to to with as much inexperience as this team has at TE and WR. Not having Aaron Jones healthy has not helped relieve the pressure on Love either. Penalties absolutely killed the Packers on Sunday as well. The Packers are currently average 6.8 penalties per game, which is 9th worst in the NFL.

Back to fundamentals and pad level! :coffee:
 

milani

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So our SB this year is Carolina for New Year. Should be a lot of hype for that one. Let us call it the 27th anniversary of the Packer-Panther NFC Championship played in 3 degrees. Bring back Favre, Kerry Collins, Kevin Greene, Chris Jacke, Antonio Freeman. RIP Sam Mills.
And RIP Reggie White, Wayne Simmons.
 

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