2020 Packers first round pick: Jordan Love, QB

[rmontro]

I did both I looked up the box score and it looked pretty bad so I went to see what he did that gleefulgary thought looked good and saw 3 interceptions 2 of which were just horrible decisions and another that was a just a really bad throw.
I saw him fail to score a TD in 3 attempts from inside the LSU 10 after his D set him up.
And I saw him fumble a snap though I don't blame him to much for that as he didn't appear ready for it.
None of that impressed me.

I haven't seen the game, and I know they had lost practically their whole team from the year before, but looking at the box score, it's hard to see what could be so impressive about such a shellacking. It's like wow kid, you got your butt kicked, but you looked good doing it.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm not sure some of you realize the talent difference between Utah State and LSU, but hey, now I know which opinions to ignore in the future!

I'll call that a win.

 

[PackAttack12]

And I saw him fumble a snap though I don't blame him to much for that as he didn't appear ready for it.

Translation: “it wasn’t his fault at all, as the center snapped it before he should have. But I’m still gonna bring it up because I have nothing better to add to my narrow minded analysis.”

 

[Fredrik87]

I'm not sure some of you realize the talent difference between Utah State and LSU, but hey, now I know which opinions to ignore in the future!

I'll call that a win.

You referenced a single game that made you think he was good in which IMO he was pretty terrible I realize that the talent difference is large and if had been a close game with only a few mistakes say 200 yards 2 TD's and 1 Int I would have been very impressed.
But his stat line and play IMO was pretty bad in that game.

Now since you bring up the talent gap I have a rather simple refute of that point against other teams for instance Nevada a team I don't think you could say was more talented he went 13 of 31 for 169 yards and one INT & TD, and against air force 14 of 23 for 114 yards and 1 TD not as bad as the other two games but not very impressive either.

Quite simply I see no reason to like this pick off of his play from last year and I see plenty of reasons to dislike it if he proves me wrong that's 100% fine with me in fact I would LOVE it, but I don't see a reason to crown him as good pick or even good player at this time.

Here's a good article that goes into more detail on a lot of the reasons why I don't like him.

https://www.pff.com/news/college-buyer-beware-on-utah-state-qb-jordan-love

As far as ignoring my opinions go ahead I'm not a GM or scout nor are you so it really doesn't mater a whole lot.

 

[Fredrik87]

Translation: “it wasn’t his fault at all, as the center snapped it before he should have. But I’m still gonna bring it up because I have nothing better to add to my narrow minded analysis.”

The only reason I brought it up is that it stuck in my head due to the many occasions Rodgers has received bad snaps and gotten a handle on the ball to make a play or at least throw it away.
As for analysis I could have added that I saw him stare down his targets, fixate on his first read, and panic both from pressure and phantom pressure that wasn't there.
You guy's call me narrow minded but all you have done to convince me he's good is reference a game in which he was terrible.

Here's a challenge for you highlight 1-3 good games from each of the past two seasons and give three or more reasons why you think he will be good as well as why he makes sense as the 1st round pick without using the word upside or the sentence : well the front office likes him.
Then I will debate those points and if you can refute all of my arguments then I will change my mind.

Fair enough?

 

[rmontro]

I'm not sure some of you realize the talent difference between Utah State and LSU, but hey, now I know which opinions to ignore in the future!

We get it, Utah State stunk and LSU were dominant national champs. And I have nothing against Love, I just think it's an odd choice to demonstrate how great the kid is when neither he nor his team were really able to do anything of consequence.

 

[OldSchool101]

We actually might be one of the only teams that got worse from last year.

Downgrade at ILB, downgrade at OT, same WR crew, same DT crew... so basically same can't stop the run like last year, our impact players are the same as last year... so if we have more injuries than last year... we'll be lucky to be 6-10 or 7-9. It will be strike one or two for both Gute and MLF towards their removal. There is a high chance that both of them might not be around when/if Love actually begins to make an impact.

I understand some criticism and it’s probably warranted. But let’s review this post for a minute.
1. I don’t think anyone can firmly say we downgraded at LB, the only reason GB got Kirksey so cheap was recent injury history. Otherwise these are a relative wash. We also drafted a 5th rounder who is good in the Run stopping department.
2. While we did take a “very slight” step back at OT.. isn’t that a little unfair? Who in the draft would’ve been an instantaneous improvement over Bulaga at pick #30?
3. You said “same WR crew”. But in fact, it’s not. There are 3 WR’s in the stable that didn’t compete last regular season for GB. Veteran St Brown, Veteran Funchess and CFL standout Begelton. If they each make the roster, which is likely, that’s 50% of many NFL rosters being added. Not that I didn’t want a WR, but that’s far from the same either way.

DT is the only position group out of 4 groups without a change that you brought up. DT is actually my biggest concern.

 

[Dantés]

Quarterback is very difficult to study. I don't really understand all the nuances of the position or claim to be able to scout QB prospects with any sort of sophistication. Most fans who "scout" QB, assess results, not process*. It's easy to assess results-- anyone can watch a play and see what happened. Knowing what it should all look like from snap to whistle is what I think requires eyes more attuned than mine.

So with that said, this a scouting report that Cheesehead TV got a hold of. It's done by a scouting service that the NFL hires to provide additional input on draftable prospects. I don't know if it's from Blesto, but Blesto is one example of such a scouting service.

I highly recommend the reading.

*As an aside, this is why PFF is so often way off from the NFL when it comes to prospects-- they track results, not process. An NFL scout wants to figure out what a player can do and decide if it will translate to the NFL successfully; PFF largely wants to look at what players did and rank them highly if the results were good in college without necessarily understanding or considering the translation of those results.

 

[CanadaCheese]

I understand some criticism and it’s probably warranted. But let’s review this post for a minute.
1. I don’t think anyone can firmly say we downgraded at LB, the only reason GB got Kirksey so cheap was recent injury history. Otherwise these are a relative wash. We also drafted a 5th rounder who is good in the Run stopping department.
2. While we did take a “very slight” step back at OT.. isn’t that a little unfair? Who in the draft would’ve been an instantaneous improvement over Bulaga at pick #30?
3. You said “same WR crew”. But in fact, it’s not. There are 3 WR’s in the stable that didn’t compete last regular season for GB. Veteran St Brown, Veteran Funchess and CFL standout Begelton. If they each make the roster, which is likely, that’s 50% of many NFL rosters being added. Not that I didn’t want a WR, but that’s far from the same either way.

DT is the only position group out of 4 groups without a change that you brought up. DT is actually my biggest concern.

Disagree
Downgrade at linebacker
Last year a tackling machine that never missed a snap... his point of attack capability was terrible (Which is the reason he’s not back) but the dude was always there and could tackle
This year we have reclaims and don’t knows
And our LBs were awful last year!!!

Massive drop at RT.....Bulaga was a perennial all pro....one of the best in the business.....boardline HOF if it was not for his injuries
Replaced by journeyman Wagner....not even close.

WR is a question but if you think we got better with a CFL guy, a worn out Funchess , and I pray the ****** guys from the past few years miraculously emerge as Rice and Moss .....ok....(snicker). A few have shown flashes of hope but opposing DCoords don’t need to concern themselves after doubling up on Adams

D Line is thin past the Smiths and beast Clarke....hoping Gary will emerge

Hope Stoneberger can step up as well as Tonyun....after that who knows

Secondary should continue to mature and improve....solid

RB same/ditto

Pre draft / post FA we are appreciably weaker

 

[swhitset]

Says who, you?

You and I have on occasion, been on opposing sides of the conversation... but for the most part, it was worth having the conversation. My advice regarding this Canada Cheese guy... it isn’t worth the trouble.

 

[tynimiller]

Disagree
Downgrade at linebacker
Last year a tackling machine that never missed a snap... his point of attack capability was terrible (Which is the reason he’s not back) but the dude was always there and could tackle
This year we have reclaims and don’t knows
And our LBs were awful last year!!!

Massive drop at RT.....Bulaga was a perennial all pro....one of the best in the business.....boardline HOF if it was not for his injuries
Replaced by journeyman Wagner....not even close.

WR is a question but if you think we got better with a CFL guy, a worn out Funchess , and I pray the ****** guys from the past few years miraculously emerge as Rice and Moss .....ok....(snicker). A few have shown flashes of hope but opposing DCoords don’t need to concern themselves after doubling up on Adams

D Line is thin past the Smiths and beast Clarke....hoping Gary will emerge

Hope Stoneberger can step up as well as Tonyun....after that who knows

Secondary should continue to mature and improve....solid

RB same/ditto

Pre draft / post FA we are appreciably weaker

You continue to illustrate you're either one of the following: a troll, not a Packer fan or just purely throw words out for the heck of it (possible to be mixture or all three).

The degree to which the WR room has improved is what can be debated, it cannot be debated whether improvement has occurred though. Behind Adams, there is only ONE wide receiver which made our initial roster there battling this year (MVS). We added essentially a Day 2 equivalent Funchess and a late Day 3 flyer on Begelton (who tore up lesser competition in the CFL). Again, the stance of we haven't done enough is one I'd bet MOST would agree with.

Secondary you state is solid...yet they arguably are no better than the WR room...they have one true bonafide dude in Jaire (Adams), another that has shown strong ability but also injury history in King (Funchess) and then literally no one proven or with much experience now that Tramon left.....it is easily argued our WR group have proven more and done more than the DB room has.

You also say running back position is the same...sorry but that is sheer ignorance in typed form. We drafted a Day 2 running back and added a UDFA that was as high as some scouts Top 10 RB in Taylor out of Memphis.


I swear some of you get your ******* so wound up over the draft it has distorted your entire perspective and view of things. Just breathe in...exhale...breathe in...exhale. The sun will rise and we will all still be Packer fans.

 

[tynimiller]

As for the Love, I've said it before the draft and I'll continue to say it shockingly now that we drafted him (I would not have) - he will be the best quarterback in 4 to 5 years from this year's first round of QBs.

Watching his tape reminded me of when I watched Mahomes' the year he came out...and I LOVE IT.

 

[CanadaCheese]

You continue to illustrate you're either one of the following: a troll, not a Packer fan or just purely throw words out for the heck of it (possible to be mixture or all three).

The degree to which the WR room has improved is what can be debated, it cannot be debated whether improvement has occurred though. Behind Adams, there is only ONE wide receiver which made our initial roster there battling this year (MVS). We added essentially a Day 2 equivalent Funchess and a late Day 3 flyer on Begelton (who tore up lesser competition in the CFL). Again, the stance of we haven't done enough is one I'd bet MOST would agree with.

Secondary you state is solid...yet they arguably are no better than the WR room...they have one true bonafide dude in Jaire (Adams), another that has shown strong ability but also injury history in King (Funchess) and then literally no one proven or with much experience now that Tramon left.....it is easily argued our WR group have proven more and done more than the DB room has.

You also say running back position is the same...sorry but that is sheer ignorance in typed form. We drafted a Day 2 running back and added a UDFA that was as high as some scouts Top 10 RB in Taylor out of Memphis.


I swear some of you get your ******* so wound up over the draft it has distorted your entire perspective and view of things. Just breathe in...exhale...breathe in...exhale. The sun will rise and we will all still be Packer fans.

I stated pre draft post FA...read in that context
If post draft....
Dillion was a good pick and improved the RB stable
Secondary is the same but seem to have people who can play
D Line starters are really good but depth is thin
WR group is TBD since the additions seem to be at best tepid... just adding doesn’t mean improved
LB group is weaker since the only starting person who performed with consistency is gone
TE is probably improved
OL is weaker...Bulaga will be missed
Make sense?

 

[GleefulGary]

Disagree
Downgrade at linebacker
Last year a tackling machine that never missed a snap... his point of attack capability was terrible (Which is the reason he’s not back) but the dude was always there and could tackle
This year we have reclaims and don’t knows
And our LBs were awful last year!!!

Massive drop at RT.....Bulaga was a perennial all pro....one of the best in the business.....boardline HOF if it was not for his injuries
Replaced by journeyman Wagner....not even close.

WR is a question but if you think we got better with a CFL guy, a worn out Funchess , and I pray the ****** guys from the past few years miraculously emerge as Rice and Moss .....ok....(snicker). A few have shown flashes of hope but opposing DCoords don’t need to concern themselves after doubling up on Adams

D Line is thin past the Smiths and beast Clarke....hoping Gary will emerge

Hope Stoneberger can step up as well as Tonyun....after that who knows

Secondary should continue to mature and improve....solid

RB same/ditto

Pre draft / post FA we are appreciably weaker

Martinez wasn't good.

Bulaga was good, but he's never been an All-Pro even once, let alone perennially. Wagner is better than a journeyman. It's a downgrade, but not as much as you are suggesting.

WR as a whole is a question mark, but it's undeniable the position group has improved.

TE at minimum is a wash, but I think it's improved.

The DL also should improve just via the growth of players.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Martinez wasn't good.

Bulaga was good, but he's never been an All-Pro even once, let alone perennially. Wagner is better than a journeyman. It's a downgrade, but not as much as you are suggesting.

WR as a whole is a question mark, but it's undeniable the position group has improved.

TE at minimum is a wash, but I think it's improved.

The DL also should improve just via the growth of players.

All valid points and I respect your insight and opinion
We really won’t know if any of these are improvements or regressions until a season starts and we can actually see performance
In summary our FA in 2020 seems to be much weaker than our 2019 performance
I think that both drafts were at best marginal
From a stand back optics perspective, I don’t see that we have improved ourselves over the 2019 version while other NFC teams seem to have.
13-3 and a seat at the NFC championship was the envy of a whole lot of cities out there so that’s a win
In closing and for the record I’m not trolling, I am a Packer fan, and I’m guilty of nothing but expressing my opinions and views based on my perspective. You are 100% correct....these boards are supposed to be fun and at times feisty, with a little vitriol sprinkled in, but some here believe personal attacks, venom spewing, and name calling is required if someone dares disagrees with them or offers a different view or interpretation.... and that is unfortunate
Have a good week and be safe

 

[tynimiller]

I think that both drafts were at best marginal

Arguably the best OL came out of our 2019 draft.
One of the highest rated rookie safeties out of our 2019 draft.
Jace showed what he could be once finally back and is out our 2019 draft.

Then you have guys like Gary who played in just shy of 25% of the snaps, and from all accounts delivered as desired...from our 2019 draft.

Hollman never was supposed to be amazing, but contributed in a crowded secondary as a 6th rounder.
Keke same as above just along the front as a 5th rounder.
Ty Summers growth is expected to be slow, but I am betting we see him more this year...7th rounder


Dexter Williams to me is the only draft pick that could be argued was a waste. I get the Gary at the spot he was picked wasn't getting the most short term mileage out of that pick spot, but long term it could be a brilliant pick.

Reason why no real claims can be laid on a draft till at minimum 3 years have passed. That said, as far as projections go - the 2019 draft actually projects very well overall to be one of our better ones in recent years. I think I easily see 4 guys the Packers will want to sign to a second contract barring a huge fall in production or injury (Jenkins, Savage, Gary and Jace)...and guys like Keke/Hollman/Summers may very well find their niche with the Packers as depth/role/ST guys into a second contract.

 

[AmishMafia]

As for the Love, I've said it before the draft and I'll continue to say it shockingly now that we drafted him (I would not have) - he will be the best quarterback in 4 to 5 years from this year's first round of QBs.

Watching his tape reminded me of when I watched Mahomes' the year he came out...and I LOVE IT.

Whoa.

Love the optimism!

There is a big step every QB must take in working. They have to put in far more study than in college to get to even adequate in the NFL. We can only hope that Love works really hard. Rodgers worked his butt off as Favres back up. I heard he dedicated many hours of film study just to effectively replicate the scout team each week. Made the whole team better and it expanded his understanding of football.

Love has HOF level physical skills. Let's hope he works really hard to get to that level. JaMarcus Russell is still the greatest physical attributed QB of all time. He was also one of the dumbest and laziest. Still turns my stomach to realize how he squandered his gifts. Didn't even try.

 

[AmishMafia]

Arguably the best OL came out of our 2019 draft.
One of the highest rated rookie safeties out of our 2019 draft.
Jace showed what he could be once finally back and is out our 2019 draft.

Then you have guys like Gary who played in just shy of 25% of the snaps, and from all accounts delivered as desired...from our 2019 draft.

Hollman never was supposed to be amazing, but contributed in a crowded secondary as a 6th rounder.
Keke same as above just along the front as a 5th rounder.
Ty Summers growth is expected to be slow, but I am betting we see him more this year...7th rounder


Dexter Williams to me is the only draft pick that could be argued was a waste. I get the Gary at the spot he was picked wasn't getting the most short term mileage out of that pick spot, but long term it could be a brilliant pick.

Reason why no real claims can be laid on a draft till at minimum 3 years have passed. That said, as far as projections go - the 2019 draft actually projects very well overall to be one of our better ones in recent years. I think I easily see 4 guys the Packers will want to sign to a second contract barring a huge fall in production or injury (Jenkins, Savage, Gary and Jace)...and guys like Keke/Hollman/Summers may very well find their niche with the Packers as depth/role/ST guys into a second contract.

Gute's loot from 2019 looks very promising. Not sure I agree with you on Gary, I hope they were expecting more out of him than that. But overall, he may have even hit a few late rounders as you say, time will tell.


That's primarily why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. There were only 2 picks that at the time of the pick, I thought were good picks. So, let's see what happens.

I think every year since TT's first draft, there has been an uproar after the draft claiming the Packers blew it and will sink into mediocrity. Well, the Packers have only had a handful of bad drafts in that time. Most are much better than claimed.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Arguably the best OL came out of our 2019 draft.
One of the highest rated rookie safeties out of our 2019 draft.
Jace showed what he could be once finally back and is out our 2019 draft.

Then you have guys like Gary who played in just shy of 25% of the snaps, and from all accounts delivered as desired...from our 2019 draft.

Hollman never was supposed to be amazing, but contributed in a crowded secondary as a 6th rounder.
Keke same as above just along the front as a 5th rounder.
Ty Summers growth is expected to be slow, but I am betting we see him more this year...7th rounder


Dexter Williams to me is the only draft pick that could be argued was a waste. I get the Gary at the spot he was picked wasn't getting the most short term mileage out of that pick spot, but long term it could be a brilliant pick.

Reason why no real claims can be laid on a draft till at minimum 3 years have passed. That said, as far as projections go - the 2019 draft actually projects very well overall to be one of our better ones in recent years. I think I easily see 4 guys the Packers will want to sign to a second contract barring a huge fall in production or injury (Jenkins, Savage, Gary and Jace)...and guys like Keke/Hollman/Summers may very well find their niche with the Packers as depth/role/ST guys into a second contract.

Good observations and I stand corrected....it was solid albeit not spectacular

 

[tynimiller]

Whoa.

Love the optimism!

There is a big step every QB must take in working. They have to put in far more study than in college to get to even adequate in the NFL. We can only hope that Love works really hard. Rodgers worked his butt off as Favres back up. I heard he dedicated many hours of film study just to effectively replicate the scout team each week. Made the whole team better and it expanded his understanding of football.

Love has HOF level physical skills. Let's hope he works really hard to get to that level. JaMarcus Russell is still the greatest physical attributed QB of all time. He was also one of the dumbest and laziest. Still turns my stomach to realize how he squandered his gifts. Didn't even try.

100% agree and also disagree. I believe there is no way one could bring up Russell in discussions with Love. JaMarcus had bust written all over him, character black flags (personal flag above red LOL) about him everywhere!

Love has moxy, his arm is awesome...and I don't think another QB in this draft could have slid into a better situation than he. His processing skills should sharpen dramatically just going through NFL coaching...but to watch Aaron could be special. I love character guys, and Love is that. I love lively armed QBs, and Love is that. I love a QB willing to gunsling at times, Love has that. I love a guy that can tuck and hurt defenses in short runs, Love has that.

You are 100% right though in the game study and processing are areas he MUST improve on...and I'm betting he will. The question will be if it is enough to justify in 3/4 years we have the same issue before us we had with Rodgers and Favre. In a perfect world Rodgers wins another SB 3 years from now and decides to ride off into the sunset............after winning two others the year's preceding LOL

 

[tynimiller]

Gute's loot from 2019 looks very promising. Not sure I agree with you on Gary, I hope they were expecting more out of him than that. But overall, he may have even hit a few late rounders as you say, time will tell.

I'm not saying Gary gave the mileage you'd expect of a pick at that spot...and to be honest though what more should we have expected? I don't think Gute expected the Smiths to both be HUGE successes and Fackrell in his 40% or so snaps followed up his excellent 2018 campaign with a solid 2019 as well. No one will ever know what Gary could have done if asked for more...we do know this year he will be asked for at minimum to replace Fackrell's snaps which is nearly doubling his time on the field.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

uummm...bulaga is about the only drop-off i can think of. am i forgetting someone else? funchis (sp) is an upgrade. i'd say they're about the same.

You think Funchess is the equivalent of Bulaga? Not sure you've seen Funchess play...

 

[tynimiller]

You think Funchess is the equivalent of Bulaga? Not sure you've seen Funchess play...

I think what he meant was Funchess illustrates an upgrade at his position whereas Bulaga's void was filled but not an upgrade with Wagner.

I'd 100% agree with that. No one can say WR hasn't been upgraded...the crucial aspect of the argument is if someone sees it as enough or to what degree that upgrade is. Essentially we added a Day 2 type guy in Funchess and a Day 3 flyer on Begelton...not too mention some still think Malik Taylor could become something (hope to stash him on practice squad another year personally)

 

[longtimefan]

Not sure if posted

Got more talent than.any other passers in the draft

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[pfcmsh]

I think common ground between our thinking is that this signals that they're planning for Rodgers to be done in GB in 3 or 4 years and not play into his 40's as he's expressed a desire to. Would you agree with that? I guess from there it's just a perspective thing. The Love pick itself is a pick for the future for sure, but given that I think it signals we are committing to a window of just a few years more with Rodgers, I think it signals the start of a win now period. We know we have 3 or 4 years with Rodgers left and we're moving on, so what do we do with it now? It may very well end up being that they just decide to roll with what we have for a few years until Love takes over, but mannnnn that would be depressing.

We might have 3-4 more years of Rogers, but he is in decline. I do not see this as a win now move by Gute. I see it as damage control for a year or 2. Get Love ready and he will be good. We just need him to be good as soon as he can be. I think the injury residuals on Rogers results in compromised play. He is not the same as he was 2 years ago. Since he hurt his leg in an opening game 2 years ago, he has struggled. He is still better than most, but our team has relied upon him to cover all of our weaknesses.He just isnt going to play at that level consistently in the future. Surgeries are hard to come back from 100%. We need Love to be good as soon as he can be.