2015 Packers notes

[Deleted member 6794]

WIMM I'm not questioning the veracity of your report, but out of curiosity, do you have a link for that bit? I googled for maybe some additional detail and I couldn't find any public reference to this... or perhaps you're local and hear more scuttlebutt from inside 1265 than the rest of us schmucks... just curious thanks.

Here´s a quote out of and a link to an article in today´s Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, mentioning Neal had hernia surgery in the offseason:

Perry (shoulder) and Neal (hernia) missed the off-season after undergoing post-season surgery.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ming-at-high-level-b99547157z1-319733661.html

 

[yooperpackfan]

Neal has played in every single game over the last two seasons since he moved to outside linebacker. He had hernia surgery during the offseason so him starting camp on the PUP list doesn´t come as a huge surprise.

I trust that that is true.
Didn't know about the surgery.
His play over the last 2 years is less memorable to me than his injury history.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I trust that that is true.
Didn't know about the surgery.
His play over the last 2 years is less memorable to me than his injury history.

Neal has mostly been a mediocre outside linebacker since his move before the 2013 season. I expect him to continue to get a ton of pass rushing snaps with Matthews continuing to play inside.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

According to Ryan Wood second-round pick Quinten Rollins failed his physical because of a slight hamstring pull.

 

[Mondio]

Neal has mostly been a mediocre outside linebacker since his move before the 2013 season. I expect him to continue to get a ton of pass rushing snaps with Matthews continuing to play inside.

Nobody is going to mistake Neal for Matthews or Peppers, but we could do much, much worse at the position. Since he's been fairly healthy he's done a better than average job at rushing the passer from the position

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Nobody is going to mistake Neal for Matthews or Peppers, but we could do much, much worse at the position. Since he's been fairly healthy he's done a better than average job at rushing the passer from the position

His total number of pressures has been decent but you have to realize that he ranked with the top 15 of all 3-4 OLBs in pass rush snaps in each of the last two seasons. His productivity per down was average in 2013 and at the bottom of the position last year.

 

[Mondio]

His total number of pressures has been decent but you have to realize that he ranked with the top 15 of all 3-4 OLBs in pass rush snaps in each of the last two seasons. His productivity per down was average in 2013 and at the bottom of the position last year.

and without knowing exactly what his responsibility is on each and every play, I don't care what the stats say again. I watch, and when he rushing the passer, he does a pretty decent job. If nothing else he's at least pushing his blocker back into the pocket and squeezing it on a very regular basis. A guy like that is important in a pass rush too, just like the guy that can beat a blocker around the edge. He's better than Walden, Zombo, Mulumba, etc,. He's not Peppers or Matthews, and I doubt we're getting 1 or 2 more of them from anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

and without knowing exactly what his responsibility is on each and every play, I don't care what the stats say again. I watch, and when he rushing the passer, he does a pretty decent job. If nothing else he's at least pushing his blocker back into the pocket and squeezing it on a very regular basis. A guy like that is important in a pass rush too, just like the guy that can beat a blocker around the edge. He's better than Walden, Zombo, Mulumba, etc,. He's not Peppers or Matthews, and I doubt we're getting 1 or 2 more of them from anywhere.

It's pretty easy to figure out the responsibilty of an outside linebacker rushing the passer. I watch the games as well but while it's possible to compare him to other Packers' OLBs (which you made a fair assessment of) there's no way I have the time to do it with all other teams playing a 3-4 defense. That's what PFF's pass rush productivity is a good indicator for.

 

[TJV]

Here's what McGinn had to say about Neal in his 2014 season review:

After three injury-filled seasons, Neal has played all 35 games the past two seasons. He played 449 snaps at OLB and 264 as a D-lineman, giving tremendous effort in a variety of roles and packages. His 27½ pressures, 2½ fewer than last year, still ranked third on the team. As Neal has matured and changed positions he has lost close to 40 pounds. Still, his exceptional strength remains, and prevents him from getting blown out at the point even as a DT in sub packages. He and Matthews, his close friend, team up for some excellent two-man twists.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...eport-card-defense-b99431313z1-289706171.html
McGinn gave him a B-minus but we've recently seen at least one example of him being an easy grader.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here's what McGinn had to say about Neal in his 2014 season review:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...eport-card-defense-b99431313z1-289706171.html
McGinn gave him a B-minus but we've recently seen at least one example of him being an easy grader.

PFF has Neal with a total of 31 pressures during the regular season which ranks 26th out of 47 3-4 OLBs. He only ranks 41st in the position group in pass rush productivity though because he had the 10th most pass rush snaps. McGinn's grade seems to be too favourable as well.

 

[TJV]

Holy crap: Abbrederis made it through one-half of the first practice before leaving hurt/injured. McCarthy said he didn't think it was the ACL again - he said it could be his tail bone. It may turn out to be nothing but in the meantime, it burns my tail bone he couldn't make it through one practice.

 

[HardRightEdge]

His play over the last 2 years is less memorable to me than his injury history.

Yeah, he missed a lot of games with injuries and the suspension in his first 3 years. One might conclude he was just not built to carry 285 - 295 lbs. (He was 294 lbs at the combine). Since dropping something like 25 - 35 lbs. coming off the suspension, he's missed only 1 out of 44 games.

How good of player was he last year? He was pretty decent. Better than Erik Walden or Perry in my opinion. Versatile. Maybe a 1/2 step slow on his get-off to be an impact player. He led the team in hurries with 2013 with 37, if you're into that kind of thing, to go with 5.0 sacks, the difference illustrating that 1/2 step issue. Solid player, though, rushing the passer and defending the edge. Doesn't make many mistakes.

I think we got at least $4 mil worth of football from him last year.

I come back to my earlier arguments regarding experienced depth. Who else ya got?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Holy crap: Abbrederis made it through one-half of the first practice before leaving hurt/injured. McCarthy said he didn't think it was the ACL again - he said it could be his tail bone. It may turn out to be nothing but in the meantime, it burns my tail bone he couldn't make it through one practice.

Well, the rap on him from the get-go was that his slight build might make him injury prone. So here we are.

 

[HardRightEdge]

PFF has Neal with a total of 31 pressures during the regular season which ranks 26th out of 47 3-4 OLBs. He only ranks 41st in the position group in pass rush productivity though because he had the 10th most pass rush snaps. McGinn's grade seems to be too favourable as well.

Have you separated the apples from the oranges? McGinn notes that Neal took 449 snaps at OLB, including run downs. I have a hard time believing he was 10th. among 3-4 OLBs in pass snaps. Lumping Neal's 264 D-Line snaps into the 3-4 OLB total would muddy the waters.

Funny thing about this "pressures" business. McGuin states he had 27 1/2 pressures and 30 in 2013. You say PFF has him for 31 pressures in 2014. Rotoworld claims he led the team in hurries in 2013 with 37, though who knows where they got that number.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5879/mike-neal

There's a lot of "eye of the beholder" stuff in this counting, particularly the questionable concept of a "hurry". I might as well use my own eye test.

 

[sschind]

The pre season pup list is important for one reason and that is a player can not be put on the regular season pup list if they are not on the preseason pup list. Every player who stepped onto the practice field today is now ineligible for the regular season pup list.

If any player is hurt from now on out and can't go on opening day the only options are 1) Permanent, season ending IR 2) IR with designation to return (1 player only) 3) 53 man roster (either active or inactive) 4) practice squad if eligible. 5) cut usually with some sort of injury settlement. There could be other options but they would not be very common and my point is the PUP list is not one of them

I used to be a little surprised that more players were not put on the pre-season list given its importance for the regular season list. Why not better safe than sorry for a player like Abby coming off an injury but when you think about it why would they be. If a player is fit enough to practice from day one you might as well have him on the field. He gains nothing by being placed on the list and sitting when he can be out there practicing and as soon as he does start practicing he is off the list and can't be placed back on. The PUP list is for players who have a good chance of not being ready for week 1. If the coaches want them to sit for the first week of camp as a precaution the pup list makes no sense because as soon as he takes the field for practice in week 2 he is off the list.

There is one advantage to placing a player on the preseason pup list even if they are fully expected to be ready to go in a week or two. It gives the team a roster spot exemption. Player on the pup list do not count against the 90 in camp body limit so a team can bring in an extra player to check out while the injured player is finishing up his rehab. Once the injured player practices however another play must be cut (or otherwise dealt with via IR or other method) to get the number back to 90. It should be noted that Pup list players, IR players and practice squad player salaries all count against the salary cap not just those on the final 53 man roster.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There is one advantage to placing a player on the preseason pup list even if they are fully expected to be ready to go in a week or two. It gives the team a roster spot exemption. Player on the pup list do not count against the 90 in camp body limit so a team can bring in an extra player to check out while the injured player is finishing up his rehab. Once the injured player practices however another play must be cut (or otherwise dealt with via IR or other method) to get the number back to 90.

Players on the active (preseason) PUP list count against the 90-man roster limit. The roster exemption only applies to the reserve (regular season) PUP list.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Have you separated the apples from the oranges? McGinn notes that Neal took 449 snaps at OLB, including run downs. I have a hard time believing he was 10th. among 3-4 OLBs in pass snaps. Lumping Neal's 264 D-Line snaps into the 3-4 OLB total would muddy the waters.

PFF doesn't make a difference between Neal lining up at OLB or DL. According to them he wasn't as productive rushing the passer last season as in 2013 though when he took snaps on the DL as well.

Funny thing about this "pressures" business. McGuin states he had 27 1/2 pressures and 30 in 2013. You say PFF has him for 31 pressures in 2014. Rotoworld claims he led the team in hurries in 2013 with 37, though who knows where they got that number.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5879/mike-neal

There's a lot of "eye of the beholder" stuff in this counting, particularly the questionable concept of a "hurry". I might as well use my own eye test.

It seems like Rotoworld uses PFF's numbers as well. And while there's a significant difference to McGinn's numbers I trust the guys at PFF watching games over and over for the sole purpose of statiscally analysing the game getting the numbers more accurately.

 

[HardRightEdge]

PFF doesn't make a difference between Neal lining up at OLB or DL. According to them he wasn't as productive rushing the passer last season as in 2013 though when he took snaps on the DL as well.

It's uncommon for a 3-4 OLB to also take snaps on the D-Line. Where would his snap count rank at the position if his 449 snaps are used instead of the 713 total?

It seems like Rotoworld uses PFF's numbers as well. And while there's a significant difference to McGinn's numbers I trust the guys at PFF watching games over and over for the sole purpose of statiscally analysing the game getting the numbers more accurately.

It's a reasonable to think McGinn uses numbers from the Packers staff. In other instances, McGinn has stated "Packer sources" as the origin of his numbers.

 

[PikeBadger]

I must admit, I was surprised that Abbrederis did not start out on the PUP. A lot of this stuff is a calculated gamble though. I would have thought that staff and mgmt felt they had access to enough WR talent to make it 6 weeks into the season without Abbrederis.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's uncommon for a 3-4 OLB to also take snaps on the D-Line. Where would his snap count rank at the position rank if his 449 snaps are used instead of the 713 total?

PFF has Neal with a total of 654 snaps in the regular season. According to their numbers he was on the field for 412 pass plays rushing the passer 386 times.

It's a reasonable to think McGinn uses numbers from the Packers staff. In other instances, McGinn has stated "Packer sources" as the origin of his numbers.

Yeah, and we discussed last year that they were pretty inaccurate with the number of tackles by Hawk during his time as a Packer.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I must admit, I was surprised that Abbrederis did not start out on the PUP. A lot of this stuff is a calculated gamble though. I would have thought that staff and mgmt felt they had access to enough WR talent to make it 6 weeks into the season without Abbrederis.

There's no reason to put a player on the PUP list if he's cleared to practice by the medical staff.

 

[TJV]

I’m surprised PFF doesn’t distinguish between OLB and DT snaps – those are significantly different positions.

I agree with captainWIMM – there was no reason to put Abby on PUP. It’s not like he has a roster spot wrapped up and they’d keep him ‘no matter what’ like Jordy for example. Once cleared to practice he should have been on the practice field and if McCarthy is correct, he didn’t re-injure his knee.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Abbrederis suffered a concussion yesterday and is going through the league's protocol. He was attending practice today so I guess it's a mild one.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I’m surprised PFF doesn’t distinguish between OLB and DT snaps – those are significantly different positions.

I'm not sure if I understand your comment correctly but PFF generally distinguishes between OLB and DT. They don't split up the snaps for a player like Neal though and list him in the 3-4 OLB category only.

 

[TJV]

Abbrederis suffered a concussion yesterday and is going through the league's protocol. He was attendings practice today so I guess it's a mild one.

That's not good either - I believe he had two concussions at Wisconsin.

I'm not sure if I understand your comment correctly but PFF generally distinguishes between OLB and DT. They don't split up the snaps for a player like Neal though and list him in the 3-4 OLB category only.

I meant I'm surprised they don't distinguish the snaps of players who play more than one position, like Neal. Of course they distinguish between OLBs and DTs and there probably aren't a lot of players who split snaps like Neal. But for those that do, it would make sense to distinguish his stats at DT from those at OLB.