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2010 draft

Discussion in '2010 Draft Archive' started by paco, Sep 11, 2009.

  1. Kutch

    Kutch Cheesehead

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    I don't know if you were referring to my post above as far as Mays goes, but if you were, then I couldn't agree more with your assessment of his current skills. Honestly, he's pretty unpolished for - what - a senior? I think if his metrics check out, though, he is a superior athlete to Bigby who has surprisingly ****** range. I can't say what his upside is because I'm not McShay or Kiper, but he'd have to have a higher ceiling than Bigby because, by all accounts, Mays is an absolute beast in terms of the combine stuff. The size is obvious.
    I want to make it clear that, in my honest and amateur opinion, CB would be a no brainer as long as Kyle Wilson is available. It looks like he'll be there for now, but he is only going to appreciate in value leading up to the draft. Rolle would be worth a look, but he's projecting further down than third/fourth round last time I heard. Not for lack of skill, but because of the layoff.
    For whatever this is worth, I think that Kindle will be gone by Round 2. He is slipping but he won't go that far. I don't think he has the size in a conventional 3-4 defense to be effective right away so I don't think he is worth our First rounder. He looks like Aaron Maybin to me - a 4-3 edge rusher or a will or sam in the 4-3 and on passing downs only. He'll get eaten alive unless he puts on about 20 extra pounds. The Packers are legitimate contenders for NFC (and hopefully, league) supremacy; therefore, we need guys that will help right away. That makes my suggestion of Mays kind of stupid, which I realize now (even though McShay gave him to us in mocks about two weeks ago)...
    If we had the goods, I'd wholeheartedly support the Packers picking up Rolando McClain if they could trade up. His situation reminds me of Patrick Willis a few years back; I think he could make the same impact in the NFL. This draft is real top heavy with interior lineman on both sides, but it's also deep - by all accounts. Those guys are valued more so I'm pretty confident McClain could be had around 10-12 in the first round; just like Willis was available around there. I don't know what we'd package to move up the 15 picks or so; maybe a first and a third (or something) for 2011? We can find an NFL-ready tackle in the mid-rounds, if Thompson and his crew would pull their thumb out of their and actually scout for talent. Sorry about the long post, but I felt I should redeem my previous post.

    (edit): I saw the Angerer suggestions and I agree that he looks good. He's an interior guy isn't he? He plays and looks like Hawk - and not just because he is "Euro-American" (6'1" and about 235). I'm not so sure he'd fit as well as a guy like McClain or even Navorro Bowman - even though he's about the same size as Angerer. Bowman played outside and I think he is a more natural athlete. Just as good a pedigree, too.
     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    My question with Mays is: can he ever learn to cover? You can't teach instincts to a player, and he has none. He's consistantly beaten, be it by air, or on the ground, when he dumbly tries to power hit and ends up eating grass...

    He doesn't lack any intangibles, IMHO, and also has all the measurables... But he seems to just lack football skills... And that's a hard thing to teach.

    I honestly think, from what I've seen, that Bigby is an all around better player than Mays.

    I think Mays is a better blitzer, and may be better in the box, but as far as coverage and tackling, no.
    -
    About Angerer, and Edds, the thing with them is, they're great in coverage. No team could throw in the middle of that field. So he's not Hawk. Has is bad in coverage.

    Both guys aren't athletic, but they just know how to play...

    McClain is a beast, he's miles better than them, but IMHO we don't need a star ILB, we need someone that can complement Barnett.

    BTW, I didn't see Willis in McClain, just to make sure. I saw more of a Beason.
     
  3. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Yeah it would seem to me that either Angerer or Edds would be safer investments than get Mays. Like Dilligaff pointed out in another post, hawk and jolly aren't a great combination in terms of pass coverage. But if we pair up Edds or Angerer with Jolly the results would be much better.

    Roland Mcclain I admit is a complete stud. However I'm a big skeptic of one year home runners. I have no doubt in my mind that he has played well in the last couple of years but this is the year he truly shined. IMHO I believe that Spikes is the more polished ILB this year even with his character concerns. Spikes has started all 4 years in college and played on a consistent basis. This consistency is what will lead players to become successes in the NFL.
     
  4. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    I agree on spikes, and I have read some mock drafts where he is going in the third round. His insticts are incredibly and he's usually a sure tackler. Plus he is far and away a better coverage guy than AJ Hawk, and he has the propensity for the big play, which we all know AJ Hawk literally shies away from.
     
  5. Kutch

    Kutch Cheesehead

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    This post is quite old, but it just goes to show how much public opinion can change in less than a year (by no means do I mean to slam you; I just happened to notice this tonight). Mays was a "lock" top-10 pick going into this year, and his instincts were never in question. He tweaked his knee, distractions certainly could have had an effect, and he may have taken some plays off mentally as a result of a lackluster personal/USC season.
    The final possibility doesn't really inspire a lot of faith, but that doesn't change the fact that Mays played beneath himself and it might not have been because he's a lost cause.

    Things change, but I'm just saying I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if the Packers drafted Mays. To the best of my knowledge, Bigby is free to go via free agency at the end of this month. While I'd miss Bigby as the Packers only Rastafarian, Mays supposedly runs a sub-4.4 forty versus Bigby's 4.65 metrics. He's bigger, faster, and younger than Bigby; Carroll tried to play Mays closer to the box this year and that may have contributed to his being out of position more often this year also. As a result, he had only 1 INT but a career high in tackles in 2009 (I'd link statistical evidence, but I just joined the forum). Furthermore, Collins is one of the fastest safeties in the league. If he is resigned and we let Bigby go, I think we get a 2nd rounder this year in compensation. If Mays can regain his '08 form which everyone else seems to have forgotten about, then I think we'd have the back end of our secondary handled. I think Spikes has been consistent also, and he'd be a nice pick-up down the line to fill out our linebacking corps.

    Either way, I don't think Thompson has the balls to mess up this draft. Most people in Wausau think he's got to go, and I suspect the rest of Wisconsin agrees. Again, I also agree that we need: OT, LB depth, secondary depth, RB, KR. Most people have mentioned these. Driver's getting old too. I don't think we have any pressing needs that we couldn't fix with some smart moves in free agency, so hopefully the draft will address out depth chart.
     
  6. Kutch

    Kutch Cheesehead

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    By the way, I'm obviously pretty new here and I don't know exactly who I am debating with, but I really appreciate being in a forum where I can discuss stuff with people and they don't troll, b***h and complain, or spout ignorant garbage. I love being a Packer fan and I love talking about the Pack with real Packer fans. This is a good forum and I think every post I've read in this thread has some really good insight.
     
  7. Cincinnati Cheesehead

    Cincinnati Cheesehead Cheesehead

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    I couldn't agree more with that quote. As far Mays go I think we can get safety later in the draft with safties that interest the Pack. I think our first round pick could be better used than to draft a guy who regressed in skill last year. I know in the draft there are a lot of ifs but I'd rather a if his skills transfer to the nfl than a if his old skills resurface and if they transfer to the nfl. Its just my opinion but I feel better options later after filling bigger needs.
     
  8. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    You're absolutely right. If you take a look at railbird central, before the Ohio ST./USC game, I'll have asked who's better, Mays or Berry.

    But I tend to only make my homework close to the draft. Mid-season I don't really pay much attention to college football besides ND, and concentrate only on GB. I only hear the speculations, and comentator's opinions.

    Closer to the draft, I watch film and read scouting analysis.

    And Mays simply isn't fluid. There's too much bad tape.

    And we don't need a box safety, someone who's a hard hitter. We need a guy that can cover really well.

    The way we play the 3-4, with the heaviest DL in the league, our run support is fine.
     
  9. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    Yep, our run defense in impeccable, it's our pass defense (which includes the linebackers) that is sorely lacking. Yes we make tons of big plays with INT's and such, but you can't always count on those (Arizona game) and have to stop somebody the conventional way, by playing aggressive coverage and being in the right place to break up a pass or make the tackle before the first down line.

    Speaking of tackling, is it just me or has anyone else seen a trend in us lunging for tackles instead of wrapping up, especially in pass coverage.
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Did see it, and hated it. A team cannot win if it tackles poorly. It's impossible. It seemed to me like they wanted to do like Woodson, and cause fumbles. But Woodson is in a game by himself, he just knows how to do it.
     
  11. Kutch

    Kutch Cheesehead

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    Couldn't agree more: Everyone in the NFL and the college game seems to attempt those lunge tackles. The Packers seem to be the biggest culprits in the pros. You have to watch high school football to see consistent textbook tackles nowadays... It's BS. BTW, it's looking like we have a good chance of Bryan Bulaga falling to us. How did he look this year?
     
  12. packers020802

    packers020802 Cheesehead

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    There are alot of FA Linemen out there this year. Hope TT can sign one or maybe even two of them... although TT never really does much in free agency. Here are some of the linemen: Jared Gaither OT, Jammal Brown OT, Marcus McNeill OT, Bobbie Williams G, Logan Mankins G (RFA), and the best of O-Lineman out there....Jahri Evans G (RFA) from the Saints.

    Mock Drafts out there have us taking either Mike Iupati G from Idaho OR Charles Brown OT from USC.

    If Iupati is there I think he would be A GREAT FIT on our OLINE. The guy is a MOUNTAIN! But I think the Steelers are going to grab him at the #16 spot!

    Alot of ppl have said grab Jahvid Best Rb Cal to go along with R. Grant. But Best IS INJURY PRONE and we could get Ryan Matthews RB Fresno State with our second round pick. Matthews would be a better fit with our zone blocking anyway!

    So take either a G or OT with our 1st round pick and RB with our 2nd round pick.... Hope to get a good CB later in the draft or through FA.
    whatcha think!!
    tiktok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    RB is a luxury at this point. If you watched the playoffs cornerback is a NEED so we should spend a 2nd on that and a later round pick on a RB
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The thing is... we had 3 cbs on the IR...

    I agree that CB is a need, but it's not the most pressing...

    IMHO the most pressing needs we have are on ST. It's punter and kick returner.

    But that can be fixed late in the draft, or even with undrafted rookies.
     
  15. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    Sometimes, but it's not very likely. What I have seen from many of the CB's is return ability. I think our DB's coach is one of the best in the nfl, so if we can get ourselves a natural athlete at the CB position and build up his coverage skills, I will take that for sure. They are saying this is one of the deepest defensive drafts in history.
     
  16. packers020802

    packers020802 Cheesehead

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    I'll throw a name out there for draft day....
    2nd or 3rd round
    Perrish Cox CB / KR
    Young talented DB with lots of upside!
    Still think TT is gonna go OLINE (1) RB (2) though.....

    ps. Heads up the vikes will be looking for db's too cause Griffin will be out for a long time with a knee injury...
     
  17. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    Ya but the vikes are terrible at drafting cb's. Benny Sapp, Gerald Blue, the one guy from fresno state (cant think of his name), and griffin really isn't all that special either.
     
  18. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Really, really like Perish Cox.

    He's the best guy in terms of value we can get. I made a thread about him, and was blown out.

    He's doesn't have a lot of ballhawking skills, but as far as covering goes, he's IMHO the second best CB in the draft, behind Haden.
     
  19. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    I just want a guy who competes for the ball once its up in the air, instead of a guy who looks around for the ball like it's somehow invisible to him (Bush). Pass breakups are fine with me, we have plenty of other ballhawks on our defense to get those ints, plus with tipped passes it gives us even more chances for interceptions.
     
  20. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    PackersRS I think you're overexaggerating Cox's abilities just a bit. While he does show prolifent technique in man coverage I read that his instincts in zone are not quite that good, he tends to bite on certain plays and does not adjust well to NFL caliber route runners. NFL scouts even rave that in certain situations where he might be asked to cover one range of the field specifically required by 3-4 defenses he doesn't quite show the nack for this ability. However he does have room to grow with tremendous upside. If you're looking for an all around corner worthy of a second round pick I beleive Ghee, Walter Mcfadden, Louis Murphy and Kyle Wilson would have to be taken a look at.
     
  21. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    You mean Jerome Murphy from USF?

    I'd like to get either Ghee, Wilson,McCourty, or Cox in the 2nd.

    In the 3rd I'd like to get Spievey, McFadden, Murphy, or Cook if we don't get a CB in the 1st or 2nd.
     
  22. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Yeah that's who I was referring to. We need someone more polished even if he is going to be just a nickel or a dime corner. Cox's abilities are overshadowed by a lot of his returning skills.
     
  23. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    To me that's not the case.

    I find him too slow to be a KR in the NFL.

    But take a look at his tape, and you'll see a guy that simply doesn't allow the receiver to come down with the ball.

    His antecipation skills needs polish, and he doesn't have great ballhawking skills.

    But as far as blanketing a receiver, he's terrific.
     
  24. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Exactly what I was talking about, he's more of a man cover corner than one who will succeed in zone. Capers likes to play more zone with his nickel and dime corners that's why he needs to improve in that area if Cox wishes to be successful with our team.
     
  25. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    cough *syd'quan thompson* cough
     

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