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Why are we giving up on our defense now?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tromadz, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Bates is gone. It is sad. I am sad. he will probably HC somewhere now, I will be shocked if he doesn't. He did a lot of good things in ONE year.

    But why are we giving up on the D now that he is gone? People want to burn TT at the stake all of a sudden because of it.

    Why not, I dunno..this is just me, wait till he hires someone first?

    Bates did a lot in ONE year. Maybe the next guy will do a lot of good things in ONE year(of many I hope, no more new Dcs every year, its lame)

    the new DC will be in better position to do good things for two reasons.

    1. GROWTH - Rookies are no longer rookies, 2nd year players are now more experienced. We had a lot of youth on that D, and now they are more experienced. That is good.

    2. TALENT - There are only a couple of spots that are really hurting on defense (CB,safety, LB). If you get the new DC a CB who doesnt have the nickname "Holding #28" and a veteran safety next to Nick Collins, as well as a LB(possibly the #5 pick in the draft, AJ hawk)...this man is in good position to do well.

    We have Cullen Jenkins,Grady Jackson,Aaron Kampman the record breaker, Nick Barnett, Al 'Shutdown' Harris, and Nick Collins the destroyer.

    thats a good base, get us a solid DC who can start where Bates left off, and we're good.

    Did I say 'start where bates left off?' yes i did. TT said He is looking for someone with passion and experience, and he and MM obviously like hiring guys with familiarity. Everyone is saying our boys have to learn a new D entirely, maybe not. If the DE coach is given a promotion(a rumor) then not much will change at all.

    But as usual, people are going speculation crazy, and hating on the coaches and management for no reason. But...whatever.
  2. Packersfan43084
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    Packersfan43084 Cheesehead

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    Kampman and Jackson have yet to be re-signed. But hopefully they'll be back.

    I like our defense, and it will only get better as players gain more experience.
  3. arrowgargantuan
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    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    i posted this in the "Bates Gone..." thread. allow me to recycle it because im with you on this one for the most part...

  4. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    man that guy is smart
  5. arrowgargantuan
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    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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  6. ahaug82
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    ahaug82 Cheesehead

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    I think the defense will be fine next year. It won't be as good as it would have been with Bates obviously, but it will be fine.

    As far as I know, Bates didn't really install a complicated system, he just motivated his men and taught them the basics. I think the players will remember that because they have memory spans longer than 4 days. The next DC will inherit a solid foundation of a defense, which is something that Bates didn't get when he joined the team. Bates molded a horrible defense into something respectable, and with more talent added through the draft and maybe free agency, the defense will be fine no matter who is the coordinator. (Unless it's Slowik. :lol: ) It may not be top 10 again, but it will be much better than it was before Bates came to Green Bay.

    If the offense can just produce the way it did before this year, we should have a pretty solid team.
  7. arrowgargantuan
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    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    i just hope our next DC can get these guys to force some turnovers. we've been missing that for a few years now.
  8. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    yeah even with bates we didnt have a lot.

    a funny thing about that is nick collins dropped a couple INTs, and one of his coaches said that it was funny, cuz he catches everything in practice.

    an experienced nick collins = UH OH!
  9. Philtration
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    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Bates is gone for the same reason that McCarthy is in. This coaching staff will be loaded with loyal yes man types and TT will be their king. Just the way he wanted it.
    This is how the Lions have been doing business for years.
  10. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    yeah, Bears fans would love that. :roll: speculation is fun, isnt it phil.
  11. Philtration
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    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Do you really believe that bringing in McCarthy and losing Bates makes the Packers a better team?
  12. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Depends who comes in as DC and how good of a job he does.

    McCarthy\Jag >Sherman\Rossley (no proof yet, but thats like waiting for proof that lovie smith was better than dick jauron)

    Bates as DC...would be very tough to replace. But is it impossible? **** no. With Bates we were a top 10 defense surprisingly. All I wanted was a middle of the pack defense, and he did better.

    I wanted a middle of the pack defense + above average offense(which we've been the last 4 years minus 2005s abortion)

    in 2005 we had an above average defense with a horrible offense. result was 4-12.

    In 2006 our offense SHOULD be back to its offensive superiority. A Favre,Gado,Javon,Driver,Franks & company offense(with a coach who is creative offensively, as well as an OC who specializes in oline\run game\te)

    Now I'd be hard pressed to assume the new guy, whoever it will be, will keep us in the top 10 defensively. But, middle of the pack is not only out of the question, it is expected. K, here we go..

    Horrible offense + top 10 defense = 4-12 (sherm,rossley,bates)

    Above average offense + middle of the pack defense = 8-8 or better (McCarthy,Jagoff,mystery man)

    with bates defense of awesomeness, we got 4 wins. yeah we had a lot of injuries, but sherman coached us directly into some losses. With an offensive coach who knows the rules of football, along with a DC who can keep us in the game...we should easilly be better.

    But yeah, it all depends on the DC and what he does. But its definitely possible.
  13. Buckeyepackfan
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    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    But yeah, it all depends on the DC and what he does. But its definitely possible


    Let me use your new favorite word here.
    You are just speculating!!!!
  14. Philtration
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    Philtration Cheesehead

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    You are depending a lot on some players who may very well have played their last games for the Packers (Favre, Walker) and a largely unproven one in Gato. Even if Favre does come back, he will be yet another year older and coming off a season in which he lead the NFL in picks and looked like he wanted to be some place else most of the time.
    On top of that you lose the DC that you yourself praised as a savior from day one and bring in a HC that has most of the league wondering why he got the job and a OC that was not on anyone's list of coaches in demand (Why not Mike Martz?). The new DC had better be very good or this will be a total bust.
  15. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    1. Favre is on the team till he says otherwise - age means nothing
    2. Gado did amazing things with a ****** line

    DC doesnt need to be very good. Just good will be fine.
  16. PWT36
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    PWT36 Cheesehead

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    Phil--Your Bears have won but one play off game since long gone Dika era, and you come on packer form Pontificating about the problems here in Green Bay. The Packers have played in 20 playoff games , winning a Super Bowl and had no losing seasons in 13 years from 1992-2004. The Packers had the best winning percentage of any NFL franchise during 1993 -2004 era. We, knowledgeable Packer fans like you should know -no NFL team wins for ever. How about giving us report on Bear Franchise record since the last Super Bowl won by the Bears under Mike Ditka since the middle of '80's. Like how many unsuccessful coaches the Bears have had gone through, how many Bear QBs the Bear team has gone through, since Favre became a starter for GB, How many fail draft choices have Bears picked, it must have been many with the losing record the Bear teams have. You should be on your Bear's fourm complaining about the unperformence of your Bear franchise in last 20 years instead of posting negative comments of about Brett Favre and Packers after just their first losing season since 1991. Your QB situation is still shakey and so is your offense, when your Bear good Defense faltered in Bears in first big test of season (first play off game), the Bear offense could not produce enough points to win. It is you right to come on this packer Forum posting negative postings about the Packers, but you will get replies from this very long time(lifetime) Green Bay born Packer/NFL fan of 60's years . I can hold his own with most pro football fans discussing most topic concerning the Green Bay Packers , even the Chicago Bears and profootball in general. I have seen many of the Green Bay Packer greats, as well as, some of the Chicago Bear greats playing in about 118 Packer Bear games ,as well as seeing Bears playing many other games on TV when TV starting telecasting NFL football games in mid '50's. Bring on your "best shots" at the Packers Phil. This Phil is always be ready.----- -------------------- Green Bay Packers founded in 1919 and have 12 NFL World Cha mpionships (including three Super Bowls in that total ) and owned by Packer fans, thank goodness -not by the McCaskey Fanily!!!!
  17. Philtration
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    Philtration Cheesehead

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    What the hell does any of that have to do with Mike McCarthy or Jim Bates? I will tell you..... nothing.
    Just the same old tired response over and over again. The same old "ignore the 70s and 80s in Packer history" routine. The same "How many QBs have the Bears had since Favre" (about as many as the number of RBs that the Packers had when Payton was playing but you like to gloss over that 25 years of Packer history from 1970 to 1995 right?) Just like you pretend that the Bears don't still hold the all time record over the Packers and now are wringing your hands over the fact that the Bears have won 3 of the last 4 meetings and have a better future ahead of them then the Packers do.
    10 Packer fans say that losing Bates was a bad thing and they are knowledgeable, 1 Bears fan says the same exact thing and it is being negative and flaming. Blah blah blah....... For the site historian you like to leave out a lot of details don't you.
  18. IPBprez
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    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Right now - Winston Moss is in the lead for the DC Chair, and Bob Sanders right behind him. Others were mentioned, but several are still unavailable for Interviews due to Playoff standings/activity. I've been reading about this Moss guy - and I like what I've read so far.

    Remember, guys --- my glass is always half-full; not half-empty and bitchin' at the waitress for being a little less pro-active... that's the stupid way to live.

    In 2004, we had this guy - SLOWIK - who didn't know a tinker's damn about fundamentals.. and we sucked pretty good. Didn't really deserve to be in the Playoffs, if'n ya ask me.

    Just wondering (about 2005) what the Season might have been without the dozen injuries we incurred is a best seller - especially, knowing we now had a Fritz Shurmur clone on Defense....

    But, it was different - a season more different than any we've had like that (injuries, that is) since ...well ... (what?) around 1986, or 1988... something like that....

    Seriously - when was the last time the Packers were decimated with injuries? Think about it...

    Even the Patriots started having issues - and look what happened to our nemesis, the Eagles. How many 2004 playoff teams went to the cellar this last season?

    It could be that Bates may end up wishing he had stayed, but I'm thinking, probably not. It was probably for the best that he leave!

    Either way, you know McCarthy deserves a chance to re-create our winning ways and that Mystique needs to be reborn. I say, give the guy a chance.

    McCarthy wasn't "in charge" of the two other teams he was a part of - and therefore NOT EXACTLY THEE REASON for their failures, either. Articles that allude to such nonsense are ridiculous.

    There's no way anyone, anywhere, can say - for sure - that TT's choice, is an automatic failure - you hearin' me, Pack66? No one can prove it - no one can see the future -- not one person here is even a close relative to Nostradamus, in any fashion - and I have the book... None of your names are in it.

    I think we need to sit back and watch the fireworks - even if it goes 8-8; it's better than 4-12. It's a blank chalk board right now - anyone can pretend anything - I say, why waste the energy - let McCarthy do all the work.
  19. warhawk
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    Hey Phil,
    It looks like you ought to be more concerned with your own teams needs right now than ours. It's not like Da' Bears put any fright in Carolina which was a prediction I made after seeing the Pack with all their injuries and no running game move the ball up and down the field on you guys. What's it been? 1991 since you won a home play-off game? You had home-field, after a bye, against a team you already beat, and you lost. Hmmmm. Maybe that's why your so focused on the Packers moves equating to their demise. IF all the teams on the Bears schedule screws up maybe they can win a playoff game for once.
  20. Zero2Cool
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    Dom Capers is also a canidate.
  21. HatestheEagles084
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    doesnt he exclusively run 3-4...i love the 3-4 defense, but i dont think we could have four solid linebackers to play, hell, we dont have 3
  22. calicheesehead
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    calicheesehead Cheesehead

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    Its all about the coaching. This D is the same D which was piptiful last year. We need a top notch DC like Bates, otherwise a middle of the road DC could bring us back to the Slowik days.
  23. tkpckfan
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    tkpckfan Cheesehead

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    phil these guys are right stop worrying about the packers problems and worry about your own. when the bears start winning superbowls then you can come on here and say whatever. go to some bears website and talk all the sh*t you want about the packers
  24. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    if pitiful means top 10 defense, then yeah...pitiful.
  25. Zero2Cool
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    Not to mention top ranked pass defense. Some will argue because teams were running out the clock, but how many times were we finished to the point where teams could afford to do that? not many at all

    All the passing yards came off Carroll's penaltys

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