Week 12 In Minny: Season And MM's Job On The Line

[Mondio]

Running, passing, whatever results in him touching the football. He was responsible for 14 points for the Packers nearly single handedly. 7 of those points as a result of his production on the ground, 7 with three big catches for chunks of yards.

Other teams would figure out how to get him the ball in advantageous situations.

Watching last night's game made me sick to my stomach when I think about our offense.

I didn't watch last nights game, but 1st half to 2nd half in our game, what changed? I agree, getting the ball in Jones' hands is important. He ran well and they used him very effectively out of the backfield. In the 2nd half, we didn't run much and he sat there by himself most times in the passing game with maybe 1 pass coming his way. Why is the question? IMO, if you're hitting him and he's getting 10-15 yards on a dump off, it makes going to Adams deep that much easier. Or you just kill them with dump offs for a while. 1st half we hit those and a couple designed ones it looked like, 2nd half i'm not sure he had more than 1 or 2 targets though he was out in a pattern. I don't think it's all on the play caller

 

[rodell330]

Running, passing, whatever results in him touching the football. He was responsible for 14 points for the Packers nearly single handedly. 7 of those points as a result of his production on the ground, 7 with three big catches for chunks of yards.

Other teams would figure out how to get him the ball in advantageous situations.

Watching last night's game made me sick to my stomach when I think about our offense.

Exactly what I said. Packers offense is so bland and outdated watching how Reid and McVay called plays made me want McCarthy gone even more. If Mahomes doesn’t turn the ball
Over they probably score 60 almost 70
Points!!!!

 

[PackAttack12]

I didn't watch last nights game, but 1st half to 2nd half in our game, what changed? I agree, getting the ball in Jones' hands is important. He ran well and they used him very effectively out of the backfield. In the 2nd half, we didn't run much and he sat there by himself most times in the passing game with maybe 1 pass coming his way. Why is the question? IMO, if you're hitting him and he's getting 10-15 yards on a dump off, it makes going to Adams deep that much easier. Or you just kill them with dump offs for a while. 1st half we hit those and a couple designed ones it looked like, 2nd half i'm not sure he had more than 1 or 2 targets though he was out in a pattern. I don't think it's all on the play caller

Exactly what I said. Packers offense is so bland and outdated watching how Reid and McVay called plays made me want McCarthy gone even more. If Mahomes doesn’t turn the ball
Over they probably score 60 almost 70
Points!!!!

Watching Reid and McVay scheme guys open is a thing of beauty. How many times was Tyreke Hill all by himself? Murdered me in fantasy. When a quarterback like Goff looks like a hall of fame level player, and a second year player looks like Aaron Rodgers, you know that the scheme is working to their benefit.

I'd put the difference like this. The scheme facilitates to Goff's success. Rodgers all time great ability facilitates to the success of McCarthy's scheme. To your point, it's so bland and outdated it's unreal.

I'm tired of relying on guys winning their one on one matchups all of the time. The offense has got to get more creative. The older Rodgers gets, the less we should be counting on him putting passes into a 3 inch window. Other quarterbacks in the NFL have it a whole lot easier than Rodgers right now.

And I know some will say look at the weapons for those other teams. Well, we have an emerging, soon to be top 5 receiver in the NFL, a big, proven target in the middle of the field in Jimmy Graham, and an Aaron Jones that's showing more and more explosive ability by the week.

The Packers have some pieces on offense to work with, but the way the NFL is going, McCarthy's scheme is going to continue to be less productive. Unless you see Rodgers play like the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL.

He'll be 35 next month. I'm tired of relying on Super Man to do the impossible.

I've always liked McCarthy, but he's reached his expiration date with the Packers. Unless he gets out of his comfort zone and mixes the offense up a little.

 

[Mondio]

Watching Reid and McVay scheme guys open is a thing of beauty. How many times was Tyreke Hill all by himself? Murdered me in fantasy. When a quarterback like Goff looks like a hall of fame level player, and a second year player looks like Aaron Rodgers, you know that the scheme is working to their benefit.

I'd put the difference like this. The scheme facilitates to Goff's success. Rodgers all time great ability facilitates to the success of McCarthy's scheme. To your point, it's so bland and outdated it's unreal.

I'm tired of relying on guys winning their one on one matchups all of the time. The offense has got to get more creative. The older Rodgers gets, the less we should be counting on him putting passes into a 3 inch window. Other quarterbacks in the NFL have it a whole lot easier than Rodgers right now.

And I know some will say look at the weapons for those other teams. Well, we have an emerging, soon to be top 5 receiver in the NFL, a big, proven target in the middle of the field in Jimmy Graham, and an Aaron Jones that's showing more and more explosive ability by the week.

The Packers have some pieces on offense to work with, but the way the NFL is going, McCarthy's scheme is going to continue to be less productive. Unless you see Rodgers play like the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL.

He'll be 35 next month. I'm tired of relying on Super Man to do the impossible.

I've always liked McCarthy, but he's reached his expiration date with the Packers. Unless he gets out of his comfort zone and mixes the offense up a little.

Is it though? What is so new about the Rams and the Chiefs? to date, nobody has pointed out anything that's new or creative other than to say it's new and creative. Tyreke Hill is amazing, who's our Tyreke? Cobb from 4 or 5 years ago? These QB's do put it in windows. I didn't watch last nights game, but I did watch the Saints and there were a lot of pinpoint passing going on. I watched the Rams and MN earlier this year and I was pretty amazed at the pinpoint passes. Outside of less than a handful of catches against, us, Goff put most of those passes right on the money against good defense by our DB's for once.

If Graham was going up and catching his contested catches, I bet we'd see something different. Adams is very good. and Rodgers negates a third of the field on most plays because he won't throw it to young guys in the middle. We're missing out on a lot of passes that open up this offense, because WR's and QB won't get together and get it right. It's not as if we don't see Adams with a linebacker on him multiple times a game. and Jones is available in the passing game, open often times. those short passes that go for 15 open it all up because linebackers can't just go rush or just go cover like they can against us now.

I see our offensive line, specifically how teams get pressure up the middle on a consistent basis as a problem and a QB and young WR's that can't get going together. Look, we saw our offense go right up and down the field against Seattle when they executed and completed plays. 1st downs brings more plays and more opportunities. the only thing that stopped us early was miscommunication between rookie WR and QB on an open pass for an easy 1st down and new set of downs. So, what changed in the 2nd? New offensive scheme?

 

[XPack]

Is it though? What is so new about the Rams and the Chiefs? to date, nobody has pointed out anything that's new or creative other than to say it's new and creative. Tyreke Hill is amazing, who's our Tyreke? Cobb from 4 or 5 years ago? These QB's do put it in windows. I didn't watch last nights game, but I did watch the Saints and there were a lot of pinpoint passing going on. I watched the Rams and MN earlier this year and I was pretty amazed at the pinpoint passes. Outside of less than a handful of catches against, us, Goff put most of those passes right on the money against good defense by our DB's for once.

If Graham was going up and catching his contested catches, I bet we'd see something different. Adams is very good. and Rodgers negates a third of the field on most plays because he won't throw it to young guys in the middle. We're missing out on a lot of passes that open up this offense, because WR's and QB won't get together and get it right. It's not as if we don't see Adams with a linebacker on him multiple times a game. and Jones is available in the passing game, open often times. those short passes that go for 15 open it all up because linebackers can't just go rush or just go cover like they can against us now.

I think you have answered your own question in 2nd paragraph. It's not like AR is beyond improvement. Biggest drawback in our offence is predictability.

Rodgers is lethal in hurry up/no huddle offense, yet we rarely get to that before final 2 minute warnings. It's not like we even have a offensive plan. Keep Rodgers upright till he throws seems to be our gameplan recently and it's failing miserably due to O-Line weakness. We need to mix the run, long and short throws, esp in the middle and not just rely in players to come on top of contested catches.

The basic of moving the chain is forgotten by our offence.

 

[XPack]

Vikes have probably the best Safety duo in NFL now. Long throws are going to be difficult. We should focus more on short throws, to Jones or the TE or get the WR to cut back to a lateral route and catch short yardage in middle.

 

[Half Empty]

Like that's gonna happen.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Vikes have probably the best Safety duo in NFL now. Long throws are going to be difficult. We should focus more on short throws, to Jones or the TE or get the WR to cut back to a lateral route and catch short yardage in middle.

This is up to Rodgers to do. Although sometimes MM fails to use short crossing routes

 

[brandon2348]

Is it though? What is so new about the Rams and the Chiefs? to date, nobody has pointed out anything that's new or creative other than to say it's new and creative. Tyreke Hill is amazing, who's our Tyreke? Cobb from 4 or 5 years ago? These QB's do put it in windows. I didn't watch last nights game, but I did watch the Saints and there were a lot of pinpoint passing going on. I watched the Rams and MN earlier this year and I was pretty amazed at the pinpoint passes. Outside of less than a handful of catches against, us, Goff put most of those passes right on the money against good defense by our DB's for once.

If Graham was going up and catching his contested catches, I bet we'd see something different. Adams is very good. and Rodgers negates a third of the field on most plays because he won't throw it to young guys in the middle. We're missing out on a lot of passes that open up this offense, because WR's and QB won't get together and get it right. It's not as if we don't see Adams with a linebacker on him multiple times a game. and Jones is available in the passing game, open often times. those short passes that go for 15 open it all up because linebackers can't just go rush or just go cover like they can against us now.

I see our offensive line, specifically how teams get pressure up the middle on a consistent basis as a problem and a QB and young WR's that can't get going together. Look, we saw our offense go right up and down the field against Seattle when they executed and completed plays. 1st downs brings more plays and more opportunities. the only thing that stopped us early was miscommunication between rookie WR and QB on an open pass for an easy 1st down and new set of downs. So, what changed in the 2nd? New offensive scheme?

I like some of our young weapons on offense but the bottom line is they have been spending all the premium draft capital on defense and now what do we have? A sputtering offense and middle of the road defense and "losing".

I warned of this happening for most of the offseason but pretty much was told I was overreacting and the offense would be fine with Rodgers healthy and it's not. We just saw a 100 points scored in the Chiefs/Rams game. It's all about offense in the new NFL and rules yet most everyone on here and other places keep wanting more db's and edge rushers. Were never gonna have an elite defense with Rodgers cap number. Never.

Thompson failed us all and I really hope Gute starts to see the big picture that setting Rodgers up with more elite weapons is the best way to another championship. If we had the studs we could of drafted MM's scheme would be just fine. We would be scoring at will and "Winning".

 

[rmontro]

Exactly what I said. Packers offense is so bland and outdated watching how Reid and McVay called plays made me want McCarthy gone even more

Andy Reid was an assistant coach for us back when Holmgren and Favre were here. How the heck is he managing to run a more modern offense than McCarthy?

 

[brandon2348]

Andy Reid was an assistant coach for us back when Holmgren and Favre were here. How the heck is he managing to run a more modern offense than McCarthy?

Seriously?
Once again look at all the offensive toys Dorsey went out and got for Andy Reid to play with. We have nowhere near that magnitude of firepower.

 

[brandon2348]

Pettine can run a band-aid operation on defense. It's time to give Rodgers and MM the weapons they deserve. Let's judge him then.

 

[brandon2348]

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[rmontro]

Seriously?
Once again look at all the offensive toys Dorsey went out and got for Andy Reid to play with. We have nowhere near that magnitude of firepower.

So you're saying it's not McCarthy, it's Ted.

 

[brandon2348]

So you're saying it's not McCarthy, it's Ted.

Yes, I've always said it was Ted and it was and still is because of the cumulative effect of his damaging personnel moves over his past several years. He put most of his big chips into trying to build some dream team secondary and other defensive picks with mostly all not that great to failed results. Held on to Capers way to long as well that didnt help.

But the overall reality is now were left with second rate weapons on offense that are combined mid to late round picks. There is some talent there but nowhere near the battlestation we could have as an offense right now that I have no doubt MM could make work. Put "Elite Talent" around your "Elite QB" just made too much sense but we were too busy investing all premium capital with an incompetent DC which has just drained the offense like a bunch of idiots. Once again we were never gonna have some elite defense with a QB contract like Rodgers. Too many moving parts to do that and not enough $ to go around. It has been an ongoing "Pipe Dream" around here.

That's the total failure of it in a nutshell.

 

[swhitset]

Yes, I've always said it was Ted and it was and still is because of the cumulative effect of his damaging personnel moves over his past several years. He put most of his big chips into trying to build some dream team secondary and other defensive picks with mostly all not that great to failed results. Held on to Capers way to long as well that didnt help.

But the overall reality is now were left with second rate weapons on offense that are combined mid to late round picks. There is some talent there but nowhere near the battlestation we could have as an offense right now that I have no doubt MM could make work. Put "Elite Talent" around your "Elite QB" just made too much sense but we were too busy investing all premium capital with an incompetent DC which has just drained the offense like a bunch of idiots. Once again we were never gonna have some elite defense with a QB contract like Rodgers. Too many moving parts to do that and not enough $ to go around. It has been an ongoing "Pipe Dream" around here.

That's the total failure of it in a nutshell.

I d love to disagree with this... but I can’t. lol.

 

[Ogsponge]

But the overall reality is now were left with second rate weapons on offense that are combined mid to late round picks. There is some talent there but nowhere near the battlestation we could have as an offense right now that I have no doubt MM could make work.

Kansas City Chiefs

Kareem Hunt 3rd round pick
Tyreke Hille 5th round pick
Travis Kelce 3rd round pick
2nd year QB performing at a MVP level while on his rookie contract
Horrible defense
Won’t win the super bowl

LA Rams

Bit different here as they do have 1st round talent in Goff, Cooks and gurley but...

Cooper Krupp 3rd round
Robert Woods 2nd
QB playing at an all pro level on a rookie contract

Also a really bad defense and not going to win the super bowl

My point is mid round talent has less to do with it than coaching.

Packers have plenty of talent on offense but McCarthy and Rodgers apparently do t know how to use that talent

 

[Mondio]

We do have some talent on offense, but none of them are Kareem Hunt and Tyreke Hill. I think the problem with our talent on offense is that 2/3's of our WR's on the field are 1st year players. Maybe things should be made simpler for them and the QB, it's an idea have had myself for a while. Prevent the miscommunications before they happen. But then i'm not privy to just what is breaking down between them. I'm not going to get into it too much other than to say, our "talent" is different than the Rams and Chiefs. They have different skill sets and they have different levels of experience. And though our Offensive line seems to be killing it in the rankings, i'm not completely buying it. I don't get to watch a ton of football anymore, but I see some of these other guys and they seem to have much cleaner pockets that Rodgers a lot of times. But that also could be a product or both our coach and QB not committing to a run game and letting defenses just rush the passer down after down after down after down.

I think it's small things on this offense and it suddenly looks so much different. get someone on the field that Rodgers is comfortable with, or get rodgers comfortable with someone in the middle of the damn field. Watch it open up. Man, if Cobb could have stayed healthy for once and had a year like he started against chicago, a guy that was quick in and out of breaks, decent speed, a little pop in his step and quick out of that position would be great for us right now. But he followed that up with a terrible game and hasn't been back on the field since outside of one game he looked old and done in.

I like Ted, i think most around here are pretty disrespectful to a guy that did a lot of good. His last few drafts though did not help this team much. a couple players here and there, but all the roster fillers that even though might just be guys, should be in that 2nd 3rd year and rounding it out into serviceable football players are all gone for various reasons. Doesn't matter if some had more talent than we weren't able to tap, or if they were headcases or if they were injured, or if they just plain ol' sucked. They aren't here, and they aren't helping.

 

[swhitset]

We do have some talent on offense, but none of them are Kareem Hunt and Tyreke Hill. I think the problem with our talent on offense is that 2/3's of our WR's on the field are 1st year players. Maybe things should be made simpler for them and the QB, it's an idea have had myself for a while. Prevent the miscommunications before they happen. But then i'm not privy to just what is breaking down between them. I'm not going to get into it too much other than to say, our "talent" is different than the Rams and Chiefs. They have different skill sets and they have different levels of experience. And though our Offensive line seems to be killing it in the rankings, i'm not completely buying it. I don't get to watch a ton of football anymore, but I see some of these other guys and they seem to have much cleaner pockets that Rodgers a lot of times. But that also could be a product or both our coach and QB not committing to a run game and letting defenses just rush the passer down after down after down after down.

I think it's small things on this offense and it suddenly looks so much different. get someone on the field that Rodgers is comfortable with, or get rodgers comfortable with someone in the middle of the damn field. Watch it open up. Man, if Cobb could have stayed healthy for once and had a year like he started against chicago, a guy that was quick in and out of breaks, decent speed, a little pop in his step and quick out of that position would be great for us right now. But he followed that up with a terrible game and hasn't been back on the field since outside of one game he looked old and done in.

I like Ted, i think most around here are pretty disrespectful to a guy that did a lot of good. His last few drafts though did not help this team much. a couple players here and there, but all the roster fillers that even though might just be guys, should be in that 2nd 3rd year and rounding it out into serviceable football players are all gone for various reasons. Doesn't matter if some had more talent than we weren't able to tap, or if they were headcases or if they were injured, or if they just plain ol' sucked. They aren't here, and they aren't helping.

Speaking of that middle of the field issue, my mind immediately thought we need a good tight end .... then I thought about Jimmy Graham and realized why I’ve been disappointed in him despite his numbers being pretty good. It seems like instead of using him as a tight end, a lot of his big plays have been running downfield on the outside like a wideout. We need a big body in the middle and it seems to me it should be him... leave those sideline plays to the wide receivers.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Kansas City Chiefs

Kareem Hunt 3rd round pick
Tyreke Hille 5th round pick
Travis Kelce 3rd round pick
2nd year QB performing at a MVP level while on his rookie contract
Horrible defense
Won’t win the super bowl

LA Rams

Bit different here as they do have 1st round talent in Goff, Cooks and gurley but...

Cooper Krupp 3rd round
Robert Woods 2nd
QB playing at an all pro level on a rookie contract

Also a really bad defense and not going to win the super bowl

My point is mid round talent has less to do with it than coaching.

Packers have plenty of talent on offense but McCarthy and Rodgers apparently do t know how to use that talent

I think as pointed out by another poster, we got two good ones in MVS and ESB, but they don't know certain nuances to working with Rodgers that Adams knows and before him Jordy knew. Hence Rodgers scrambling wanting to throw but not having a guy working back to him. As I said before, Ted Thompson screwed around with the defense too much and didn't get the picks we needed on OL and WR earlier, and as a result, we may have depth there at this last draft, but no experience. Hence why it might take one more offense draft to put this team where it's supposed to be.

Having said that, there is some sort of disconnect between Rodgers and McCarthy on short vs long passes it seems.

The back and forth seems to be whether MM has given him plays with WRs coming across short and he ignores them because he wants deep balls, or if MM is leaving him hanging out to dry by not calling plays where receivers are open on slants or crossers. I think it's a bit of both, and one or the other is going to have to give a little.

 

[brandon2348]

Kansas City Chiefs

Kareem Hunt 3rd round pick
Tyreke Hille 5th round pick
Travis Kelce 3rd round pick
2nd year QB performing at a MVP level while on his rookie contract
Horrible defense
Won’t win the super bowl

LA Rams

Bit different here as they do have 1st round talent in Goff, Cooks and gurley but...

Cooper Krupp 3rd round
Robert Woods 2nd
QB playing at an all pro level on a rookie contract

Also a really bad defense and not going to win the super bowl

My point is mid round talent has less to do with it than coaching.

Packers have plenty of talent on offense but McCarthy and Rodgers apparently do t know how to use that talent

They have nowhere near the weapons of Saints/Chiefs/Rams on offense.

I never said you couldn't find value with later round picks but the reality is the percentages to find the better players goes way down in those rounds. I don't believe the best way to build an elite offense around your elite QB is with volumes of late round picks which the Packers have done. Then you throw in only using free agency to add a couple washed up TE's and you what we have which is average at best talent on offense and that's being generous because I do believe in our younger receivers getting better.

 

[rmontro]

Then you throw in only using free agency to add a couple washed up TE's and you what we have which is average at best talent on offense and that's being generous because I do believe in our younger receivers getting better.

Then when you start missing on your late round picks it's even worse. But including Rodgers our offense is better than average. Maybe not by a lot, and certainly not up with the elites, but still better than average.

 

[gopkrs]

The announcers always say that The Pack is one of the best screen pass teams in the league. They live in the past. The Packers do not set up the screen well and they need to work on it. imho

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Andy Reid was an assistant coach for us back when Holmgren and Favre were here. How the heck is he managing to run a more modern offense than McCarthy?

Reid might be working with better coaches and willing to listen to their ideas.
McCarthy is a block head and wants to operate on his own.

 

[OldSchool101]

And here I was expecting someone to say the coaches room is right next to Golden Corral.

Bahahaha.
Right next to? It IS “the” Green n Gold Corral!