1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up/a> or Log In

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

OFFICIAL DEFENSIVE ISSUES THREAD

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Southpaw, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. GreenBlood
    Offline

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652 / 39 / -2
    Bottom line is the league is entirely different than it was 10 years ago. The main thing to remember is that we are 15-1 and 12th in scoring defense. Yards alone are a poor measure of a defense anyway. Scoring, sacks and takeaways are much more important.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. RustyShackleford
    Offline

    RustyShackleford Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    44
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0
    The fact that the defense is so much worse than last years is really shocking to me. True, they lost Jenkins and Collins early, but in addition to changes in personnel a large factor is the progress or regression of the other players. With all the young talent on the team last year, I expected overall improvement. However, other than Bishop I don't think any of the young players on defense have gotten any better, and many have gotten worse. Just baffling to me.
  3. Fazeman
    Offline

    Fazeman Setting The Pace

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    164
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Ratings:
    +20 / 1 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1967
    Our offense has really stepped up the average points per game this year with 35 Pts/G as compared to 2009 (28.8) and 2010 (24.2). So, while the defense has increased points surrendered with 22.4 Pts/G, it's comforting to know that opponents have to score in the 30s to make it a game. And when it becomes a game like it was against Detroit, the Packers' defense caused two fumbles and two interceptions. This negated any yards gained by Detroit and ultimately gave our offense four more chances to score. Based on the Int/Fum stats you provided, I also take comfort in the defense because they have a proven track record of success in this catagory.
  4. longtimefan
    Offline

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    15,698
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Ratings:
    +2,544 / 76 / -14
    Packer Fan Since:
    1975
    Since two new D threads or more have happened in last 12 hours, this is being bumped and and made into a sticky
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Croak
    Offline

    Croak Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,017
    Location:
    New Cumberland, PA
    Ratings:
    +930 / 11 / -1
    Packer Fan Since:
    1965
    There are a lot of posts on this defense. There are a lot of different things mentioned that contribute to the ranking of the defense. Yet I think it is pretty much agreed that it's a mystery how this defense slipped so far so fast. If I was a sports writer that would be the angle I would take. "The Packers Mystery D". Many of you folks make good observations, losing one or two guys shouldn't make a D drop like a rock. Something's happenin' here, but what it is ain't exactly clear....
  6. brett2520
    Offline

    brett2520 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2011
    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0
    The solution cannot be fixed this year, plain and simple. I think there is one issue only. NO PASS RUSH (opposite Clay). We are blitzing all kinds of players (even DBs) and still getting nothing. Until we get a real bonified pass rush, from an OLB and DEs, the secondary will have to take their lumps. Plus I truly think we miss Nick Collins more than we realize. He was a beast and hopefully he can recover.
  7. ThxJackVainisi
    Offline

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,768
    Ratings:
    +1,908 / 49 / -33
    IMO until the NFL uses total yards to decide which team wins the game, the Packers are not 32nd in defense. They've been bad enough, no reason to exaggerate how poorly they've played at times.
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this but here are a couple of quotes from a story I linked to earlier in this thread after game 12, the win at the NY Giants: LINK
    No team gets a even a good rush on the QB every passing play so while a better pass rush would lessen the number of times opponents hit a long post route, it wouldn't eliminate it: IOW the secondary isn't playing consistently well either. Like every Packers fan I would have loved to see a secondary of Woodson, Collins, Burnett, Williams, and Shields. Burnett hasn't improved as much as I had hoped but with Collins healthy and Burnett substituting for Peprah would have been a lot of fun to watch - even with this season's pass rush.


    BTW, kudos to Croak for sneaking in the Buffalo Springfield lyric!
    • Like Like x 1
  8. PackersFanfromCali80
    Offline

    PackersFanfromCali80 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Long Beach, CA!
    Ratings:
    +86 / 0 / -0
    I remember watching the Raiders vs Packers game on CBS and Phil Simms made an observation that the Packers D likes to take chances and sometimes when you gamble, you lose which could account for why they have been giving up big plays of 20 yards or more. However, against the Lions on Thanksgiving and against the Falcons, they were very good. I don't really want to comment too much until I know for sure which team the Pack will be playing next Sunday.
  9. ivo610
    Offline

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    15,066
    Location:
    Madison
    Ratings:
    +3,535 / 86 / -26
    I blame ESPN. I blame sound bites. I blame fans for not thinking for themselves.

    The past few weeks I have seen many posters on here refer to our defense as the worst in the league. Its not. Not even close. I understand the simpletons on the Saints forum calling it the worst defense but Packer fans? Come on guys.

    We are 9th in opponent passer rating. Not outstanding but not terrible. In fact we are way ahead of the Saints and the Giants. For some reason (ESPN) we have been driven to focus on yardage this season without giving or taking away its value. Teams are racking up garbage yards. We lead the league in INTs. Does anyone have a serious argument for why the Packers are the worst defense in the league? BC they are not. We have issues, we have holes, we have gaps in our defense. But we arent the worst. Far from it.

    I can promise you the rankings and numbers would look even better if you exclude the last game of the season when we sat 2 of 3 best defensive players.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Brandon
    Offline

    Brandon Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Ratings:
    +60 / 37 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1995
    I agree with you 100%. The fact that we give up so many passing yards is completely meaningless for the most part, because in most of these games that I've watched the Packers will have a substantial lead and then play a soft coverage that allows for a ton of underneath yards. I think there's only been maybe 5 games this whole year where the defense actually played bad, last week including.. although we didn't have woodson and matthews out there who by themselves can be game changers.

    Like you pointed out we lead the league in interceptions (I think turnovers too? Maybe the 49ers have that right now, not sure) and when you have a defense that can take the ball away and give it back to Rodgers on average of 2x per game, then THAT is why we are where we are right now. Garbage yards and garbage points don't matter in this league. I mean hell, we just let a guy throw for 500+ yards and 5 TD's and we STILL won the damn game.. why should our defense scare us?

    What I will say about out defense is that I sincerely hope we find a pass rush in the playoffs, I've been extremely disappointed in our d-line and have not seen very much pressure like we constantly got last year. I attribute out front 4 more to the passing yards given up than I do our secondary who have more interceptions than any team.
  11. Bogart
    Offline

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Location:
    Mobile, AL U.S.
    Ratings:
    +871 / 5 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992
    32nd ranked defense overall, I don't think numbers lie one bit.

    Even if 3 guys on defense weren't sitting out against Detroit, Stafford still throws 500 yards if Newton, Brees, Rivers, and the others could put 400 up easily on this defense.
  12. VolvoD
    Offline

    VolvoD Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,064
    Location:
    York, PA
    Ratings:
    +619 / 14 / -10
    our defense is so bad that we lost 1 game.
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Brandon
    Offline

    Brandon Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Ratings:
    +60 / 37 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1995
    I'm still hoping for Packers and Patriots super bowl. If Stafford and Flynn put up those types of numbers last week, imagine what Brady and Rodgers will do to each others' defense!
  14. Jordyruns
    Offline

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Ratings:
    +159 / 7 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1997
    If by worst D you mean worst pass rushing d (especially without matthews) I could not agree more. It has been pathetic to put it lightly. Our pass rush could be the worst in the league. The run D is respectable imo. Not the worst out there but by no means is it a strength.

    As was stated though the strength of this D is the takeaways. Who cares if your QB leads you on a 80 yard drive if in teh end you end up with 0 points because your QB throws an INT. Even if he doesn't throw and INT the Packers are pretty good at coming through when you need them to, so like a 1st and goal for instance. You drove 80 yards to get 3 points, now the packers drive 85 yards and get a TD. The yards are similar but the score is not. Yards can be very misleading in terms of who wins. The best indicator is red zone efficiency and turnovers which is the strength of the Packers D.

    Don't get me wrong I am still scared of this D, it is not good, but is it a D that could be on a SB winning team, yes. To the Saints fans, the saints D when they won was known for their turnover margin. It was not a very good Defense by the traditional stance but they could force the turnover which as has been stated is a winning model for any D.
  15. Powarun
    Offline

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,921
    Location:
    Madison
    Ratings:
    +382 / 2 / -0
    OMG you mean we lost one whole game out of 16, like isn't that bad? I think our defense brought the bend but not break policy a little too far but they are pretty darn good at creating turnovers. The whole let our offense create a lead then make the opposing offense throw with a lesser QB and a D that thrives off turnovers was an experiment that worked out pretty well this year in the wins department.
  16. ThxJackVainisi
    Offline

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,768
    Ratings:
    +1,908 / 49 / -33
    Two points:
    1. Bogart, when you look at the scoreboard are points or yards displayed?
    2. Doesn't this thread belong in the Defensive Issues thread?
    • Like Like x 1
  17. 98Redbird
    Offline

    98Redbird Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    Bears Country... UGH!!
    Ratings:
    +221 / 6 / -2
    Here’s the deal with why people are losing their minds over our defense. Yes, it’s ranked dead last in passing yards. We are 19th in scoring defense. Listen people, all that matters is scoring defense. You don’t win a game because you put up 6,000 yards like you can against this defense. What frustrates people and I’ll admit it frustrates me too, is that teams (ALL TEAMS) seem to move the ball down the field on us with ease. Every 20, 30 and 40+ yard completion makes me want to kill someone, and that angers us as fans. But what we overlook is that teams don’t always score against us. They do quite a bit as evidenced by our 19 ranking in scoring defense. But we aren’t the worst defense in the league. We’re not good, but we aren’t the worst. Regardless, every team in the playoffs has the ability to torch our defense, for yards AND points. If we go back to the superbowl, we are going to do it on the right arm of Aaron Rodgers and the hope of winning the turnover differential. We aren’t going to do it because we shut a team down defensively. We haven’t done it all year, we aren’t going to start now.
  18. GVN2FLY
    Offline

    GVN2FLY Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    62
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1997

    Which makes you wonder about the argument "Defense wins Championships!"
  19. ExpatPacker
    Offline

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,070
    Location:
    A Galaxy Far, Far Away
    Ratings:
    +388 / 7 / -0
    The worst defense in the league? No I don't think so. But there are some things the defense must do better. yes, they are great at getting INTs, but when you are going against playoff-caliber teams they tend to make less mistakes and you can't count on getting the TO. Packer defense has not been good at stopping opposing teams on 3rd downs. That means the other team's offense is on the field longer and they get into scoring position more. Less chances for Rodgers and co. to win the game. You just can't ignore that.
  20. Unomee
    Offline

    Unomee Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona, but it's a dry heat.
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    If you look at stats then yes, this D is the worst, but those are yards. If you look at points allowed that is not the case and the Pack is comparable in that category with the other playoff teams in the NFC except SF.
  21. GreenBlood
    Offline

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652 / 39 / -2
    So tell me Bogey. Why is it that yards seems to be the only defensive statistic that matters to you? You probably actually think the Saints have a better pass defense because they have given up 30 fewer yards per game, don't you?
  22. GreenBlood
    Offline

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,705
    Ratings:
    +652 / 39 / -2
    Not anymore. The NFL has crippled the ability to play pass defense. If you look around, the teams with good passing defense tend to be the teams who primarily have rushing offenses that chew up the clock.
  23. ivo610
    Offline

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    15,066
    Location:
    Madison
    Ratings:
    +3,535 / 86 / -26
    espn brainwashing tells you that defenses are ranked by yards. I'd rather see people rank teams by more of a legit indicator
  24. longtimefan
    Offline

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    15,698
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Ratings:
    +2,544 / 76 / -14
    Packer Fan Since:
    1975
    05 defense was ranked #1 in yards

    and we were 4-12
  25. ThxJackVainisi
    Offline

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    2,768
    Ratings:
    +1,908 / 49 / -33
    It looks to me like the 2005 Packers D was 7th in yards surrendered but tied for 19th in points surrendered during that regular season, so longtimefan's point still stands. BTW, the Packers were tied for 26th in INTs with 10. They recovered 11 fumbles for a total of 21 TOs.

Share This Page