MM is just about on the hot seat

[maxlives]

By the way, if you were to ever watch a Packers game with me there is no way you would think I am a Packers fan. I think probably nobody cusses and criticizes as much as I do during a game. But this is a truly remarkable year and this is a team with a remarkably bright future if it can get healthy. Overachievers is the word that comes to mind.

 

[PackersRS]

max, I understand what you're saying, but look at it seriously.

Hasn't there been bad gameplanning, playcalling and adapting since 05, the year that MM started? Aren't the same problems appearing every season?

We are the most injuried team in the NFL, but we're most injuried on D, and the D is performing amazingly well. It's not the D that failed to score a single touchdown on THE DETROIT LIONS.

McCarthy is a good coach, but it's not the rule for a GOOD coach to win the SB. Usually GREAT coaches win it.

It sounds a lot subjective, but how many games has MM won for us? How many games can you say "well, if it wasn't for McCarthy's gameplann, if it wasn't for McCarthy's playcall, we would've lost"? In how many games the Packers were the clear worse team, yet they prevailed?

And how many games the opposite happened? That the Packers were the better team, and they lost? How many games McCarthy's playcalling cost us?

If you honestly don't believe that MM is a problem, that's your opinion. But don't say that fans can't judge because they can't perform better.

In a comparison, a person can criticize a mason that builds a crooked wall, even if he can't build one himself. The lack of ability to do a job doesn't translate to a lack of knowledge about said job or the way it's supposed to be performed.

 

[AmishMafia]

max, I understand what you're saying, but look at it seriously.

Hasn't there been bad gameplanning, playcalling and adapting since 05, the year that MM started? Aren't the same problems appearing every season?

We are the most injuried team in the NFL, but we're most injuried on D, and the D is performing amazingly well. It's not the D that failed to score a single touchdown on THE DETROIT LIONS.

McCarthy is a good coach, but it's not the rule for a GOOD coach to win the SB. Usually GREAT coaches win it.

It sounds a lot subjective, but how many games has MM won for us? How many games can you say "well, if it wasn't for McCarthy's gameplann, if it wasn't for McCarthy's playcall, we would've lost"? In how many games the Packers were the clear worse team, yet they prevailed?

And how many games the opposite happened? That the Packers were the better team, and they lost? How many games McCarthy's playcalling cost us?

If you honestly don't believe that MM is a problem, that's your opinion. But don't say that fans can't judge because they can't perform better.

In a comparison, a person can criticize a mason that builds a crooked wall, even if he can't build one himself. The lack of ability to do a job doesn't translate to a lack of knowledge about said job or the way it's supposed to be performed.

To a degree you are correct. There have been areas that MM needs to improve upon. But there are no perfect coaches in the NFL, there never has been. Look at Lombardi (at the risk of getting banned for life, I want to make a point here.) His team had, at one time, 10 HOFs (iirc) and an additional 10 future or past probowlers. They were far better than any other team at the time. Yet they never went undefeated.

Coaches do get better. Was Cowher a good coach for 14 years and then suddenly got great in his 15th year as HC when he won the SB? Didn't Belichek fail in Cleveland before succeeding in NE?

There are some things that MM is better than average as a coach. In my opinion, if he gets a new OL coach and a new ST coach, he is going to look much better as a coach next year.

Strike that - it should have read: WHEN he gets a new OL coach . . .

 

[AmishMafia]

Besides, who are we going to get as a new HC?

Capers has done poorly in his 2 attempts. Chucky - I thought his team in Tampa after the SB was very poorly handled. Strange game plans, strategies, etc. Cowher? As I said above, it took him 15 years in Pittsburgh, we fans are impatient after just 5. Some unknown? No thanks - its always a gamble. I like MM and think he will grow with the team and organization and be one of the better NFL coaches.

 

[armand34]

More movie cliche's. "Don't talk to me about injuries, yadayadayada". Here's some perspective from a former coach; the 2010 Green Bay Packers are putting a hybrid team of JV and Freshman to play for the injured Varsity. Get it???? When the coaches talk to the newspapers they all say "injuries are no excuse..." but I can tell you with authority that injuries are the main topic at EVERY meeting EVERY day. What this team has been able to overcome this year is nothing short of a miracle and portends an extremely bright future. If you are "tired of waiting" and "sick to your stomach" jump on another bandwagon, there' plenty of teams winning NOW. I am also a little frustrated with this year because our Packers have lost some games they had a chance to win. But I am encouraged because I understand the challenge of playing with reserves and realize we probably have no business being 8-4 with the second and third stringers. Being a Green Bay Packer fan is not for the faint hearted, but I guess that's something only born and bred Packer fans really understand. If you can't wear your green and gold with EXTREME pride I suggest you take it off. Otherwise quit yer*****in' and enjoy the ride, you're missing all the fun.

I'm not trying to prove my fanhood to you...I will always want & demand SUCCESS from my PACKERS & my YANKEES...YES the first 13 Weeks was a great accomplishment b/c of how the season started with the INJURIES...but WEEK 14, against DREW STANTON (#3), our best 11 when Rodgers was still in it, wasn't even cutting it...the same 11 that lit up the 'boys, 49ers, & Vikings....so what changed? same 11 guys...what changed?...Why did we SUCK? against the LIONS...I know we are better then that...so why did we suck?...I would like you to explain to me why YOU think we lost?...or are you going to just shrug that loss off, b/c you're PACKER PRIDE is so high, it doesn't bother you if we don't make the playoffs?...All I want you to answer for me is why we LOST to the Lions?

 

[aaronqb]

McCarthy is a good coach, but it's not the rule for a GOOD coach to win the SB. Usually GREAT coaches win it.

no doubt you are right

 

[longtimefan]

All I want you to answer for me is why we LOST to the Lions?

Even tho its a professional team, they gave a half assed effort cuz they KNEW they were the better team and just had to "Show up" and they win

by the time they realized they had to actually play, they gave the Lions enough energy and confidence that it was to late..Now if Rodgers was in there at the end, maybe would been different

 

[armand34]

Even tho its a professional team, they gave a half assed effort cuz they KNEW they were the better team and just had to "Show up" and they win

by the time they realized they had to actually play, they gave the Lions enough energy and confidence that it was to late..Now if Rodgers was in there at the end, maybe would been different

Yea I do believe Rodgers would have been the difference, but where did the little Screens & curls go...that is our IDENTITY, right? the YAC!

 

[longtimefan]

It sounds a lot subjective, but how many games has MM won for us? How many games can you say "well, if it wasn't for McCarthy's gameplann, if it wasn't for McCarthy's playcall, we would've lost"? In how many games the Packers were the clear worse team, yet they prevailed?

And how many games the opposite happened? That the Packers were the better team, and they lost? How many games McCarthy's playcalling cost us?

08 Colts, and Bear games

Last year at the time we played these two teams I felt we were the lesser team.

Dallas and Raven games

 

[longtimefan]

Yea I do believe Rodgers would have been the difference, but where did the little Screens & curls go...that is our IDENTITY, right? the YAC!

Screens ARE not our identity..Havent been for a long time

 

[Powarun]

I felt the Lions game was the game where everything that has been wrong all year caught up with us. It was murphy's law acting upon us. I have been thinking Coach McCarthy is an above average coach, a B- rating. He does a poor job in keeping the lead in games, and motivating the players at game time. I am not down on the field so I wouldn't know, but he doesn't seem to be the guy motivating them to play better. His play calling and time management is pretty poor. I figure if your run game isn't doing well in the middle of the season, try to work it sparingly, and the more the higher the lead, the more risks you take. AND DON'T TRY TO WIN THE GAME WITH A MINUTE LEFT WITH A LONG PASS ON 4-1. I can't blame him for the Falcon's 4th quarter drive to win, only because the Packers were out of options on that 4th down, but honestly that is why the Packers lose so many close games.

 

[Riley82]

I think MM has done ok considering the injuries.
I admit his play calling is abit weird at times.
I think give MM one more season.
(he should have challenged the gonzo catch at atlanta)
I stated this on an english packers fan site and i just got slammed constantly by my fellow english fans.

 

[armand34]

Screens ARE not our identity..Havent been for a long time

OUR IDENTITY is the YAC...eg...plays like slants, buttonhook routes, screens, etc

 

[GreenGoldAngel]

I'm not trying to prove my fanhood to you...I will always want & demand SUCCESS from my PACKERS & my YANKEES...YES the first 13 Weeks was a great accomplishment b/c of how the season started with the INJURIES...but WEEK 14, against DREW STANTON (#3), our best 11 when Rodgers was still in it, wasn't even cutting it...the same 11 that lit up the 'boys, 49ers, & Vikings....so what changed? same 11 guys...what changed?...Why did we SUCK? against the LIONS...I know we are better then that...so why did we suck?...I would like you to explain to me why YOU think we lost?...or are you going to just shrug that loss off, b/c you're PACKER PRIDE is so high, it doesn't bother you if we don't make the playoffs?...All I want you to answer for me is why we LOST to the Lions?

Look you have proved to be a good fan, so I do not want to any arguments. I will answer the question of why we lost to the lions if you can answer this question. How could Lombardi lose a game 45-6 to a team that won 2 games all year? And we lost at home, not on the road.

 

[JBlood]

Even tho its a professional team, they gave a half assed effort cuz they KNEW they were the better team and just had to "Show up" and they win

by the time they realized they had to actually play, they gave the Lions enough energy and confidence that it was to late..Now if Rodgers was in there at the end, maybe would been different

You are correct LTF. The game in a nutshell.

The O-line is the primary example. I'd like to see McCarthy start Lang, McDonald, etc. as a message to the starters. Even if it's just for a few plays, it might wake up these sleeping giants.

 

[maxlives]

I'm not trying to prove my fanhood to you...I will always want & demand SUCCESS from my PACKERS & my YANKEES...YES the first 13 Weeks was a great accomplishment b/c of how the season started with the INJURIES...but WEEK 14, against DREW STANTON (#3), our best 11 when Rodgers was still in it, wasn't even cutting it...the same 11 that lit up the 'boys, 49ers, & Vikings....so what changed? same 11 guys...what changed?...Why did we SUCK? against the LIONS...I know we are better then that...so why did we suck?...I would like you to explain to me why YOU think we lost?...or are you going to just shrug that loss off, b/c you're PACKER PRIDE is so high, it doesn't bother you if we don't make the playoffs?...All I want you to answer for me is why we LOST to the Lions?

I guess because you weren't coaching that game?

 

[PackersRS]

To a degree you are correct. There have been areas that MM needs to improve upon. But there are no perfect coaches in the NFL, there never has been. Look at Lombardi (at the risk of getting banned for life, I want to make a point here.) His team had, at one time, 10 HOFs (iirc) and an additional 10 future or past probowlers. They were far better than any other team at the time. Yet they never went undefeated.

Coaches do get better. Was Cowher a good coach for 14 years and then suddenly got great in his 15th year as HC when he won the SB? Didn't Belichek fail in Cleveland before succeeding in NE?

There are some things that MM is better than average as a coach. In my opinion, if he gets a new OL coach and a new ST coach, he is going to look much better as a coach next year.

Strike that - it should have read: WHEN he gets a new OL coach . . .

Right. There are some areas that MM is better than average. That's why I say he's a good coach. He's a better coach than a lot out there, better than Childress, than Phillips, Turner, Lewis...

Yes, if he has a great team he would be champion. He doesn't. He needs to adapt. He can't. That's the problem.

We had a DC that was pretty good, when he had a full team, capable of pressure the QB.

Once he had to adapt, he failed miserably.

Bob Sanders was a good DC.

How do you know McCarthy isn't or won't be a great coach? As some others have pointed out, the great Bill Cowher took 15 years to win a Super Bowl.

And, how about a guy like Mike Ditka. Was he a great coach in Chicago and suddenly became a ***** in New Orleans? Was Brian Billick a great coach? His career mark ... 80-64 in the regular season.

And how do we know Chuck Noll was a great coach? After all, he had Terry Bradshaw, Joe Greene, Jack Lambert, Mel Blount, Jack Ham, Franco Harris, Mike Webster, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth. Was it the players or the coach?

How about a guy like Marv Levy? He never won a Super Bowl, but a pretty good coach.

Oh, MM isn't a great coach, by any stretch. Too many shortcomings to be one.

Some coaches you mentioned, that's why I said IN RULE. I really need to start putting it in bold, because people can't seem to notice it.

About Chuck Noll, HE build that team. HE chose those players. Plus, it was HIS system. If you think Noll, Jimmy Johnson, Lombardi, Bill Walsh, Bellichick, Parcells, Gibbs weren't GREAT coaches, you're on the wrong track...

08 Colts, and Bear games

Last year at the time we played these two teams I felt we were the lesser team.

Dallas and Raven games

Bears I absolutely disagree. Dallas I agree. Ravens no way, we were the better team.

Still, that's my point. Few games.

Now, Lions, Redskins, Dolphins, Tampa Bay, Cincinatti, Houston, Tampa Bay in 08... This from the top of my head.

Quite a few eh?

 

[longtimefan]

Bears I absolutely disagree. Dallas I agree. Ravens no way, we were the better team.

Still, that's my point. Few games.

Now, Lions, Redskins, Dolphins, Tampa Bay, Cincinatti, Houston, Tampa Bay in 08... This from the top of my head.

Quite a few eh?

Well I think Ravens were the better team then...I do recall words was if the Packers won they were making a statement

Redskins, lost our main play makers, and Crosby missed a FG, (would have won) and Rodgers tossed an int..So how is that MM fault?

Dolphins I agree with

Lions I already mentioned why they lost..

Cinncy was a playoff team.

Tampa in 08, Rodgers tosses 3 in and thats MM fault?

09? Defense didnt show up and Rodgers tossed a pick 6..So how is that MM fault?

Houston? I recall driving and getting Td to tie in the 4th..then driving for Fg penalty for holding took them back 10 then Rodgers is sacked for another ten, out of Fg range..D then allowed them to march down in 1:49 sec and get a FG

MM fault?

Were they lesser teams, yup..but I wouldnt pin ALL of those losses on MM

 

[PackersRS]

Well I think Ravens were the better team then...I do recall words was if the Packers won they were making a statement

Redskins, lost our main play makers, and Crosby missed a FG, (would have won) and Rodgers tossed an int..So how is that MM fault?

Dolphins I agree with

Lions I already mentioned why they lost..

Cinncy was a playoff team.

Tampa in 08, Rodgers tosses 3 in and thats MM fault?

09? Defense didnt show up and Rodgers tossed a pick 6..So how is that MM fault?

Houston? I recall driving and getting Td to tie in the 4th..then driving for Fg penalty for holding took them back 10 then Rodgers is sacked for another ten, out of Fg range..D then allowed them to march down in 1:49 sec and get a FG

MM fault?

Were they lesser teams, yup..but I wouldnt pin ALL of those losses on MM

So it's not the coach's job to prepare the team?

And, with the same reasoning, why it was MM's asset that we won against those teams?

I could use the same reasoning to say that it was Rodgers or the D that won us those games.

In the end of the day, there are many more games that we lost against inferior competition than there are games where we won against better competition.

In the end of the day, MM is 5-15 in close games.

 

[longtimefan]

You think he is to blame for certain losses, I dont..

Lets just agree we disagree

 

[JoshuaRHuffman]

I've wondered about this... Anyone think there's still a hangover effect from the 08 NFCCG? That year we went to the NFCCG, they were coming back from every game. Chiefs, Chargers, Broncos, Eagles... I remember them winning all the close games toward the end. Hell, even when we were down in that Cowboys game, our backup QB came in and nearly led us to victory.

Then in 08, they were just a disaster in close games. 09 wasn't much better (I do remember them having that bomb to Jennings in the reg season opener) and this season has been pretty bad also.

McCarthy was good at getting his teams prepped for those games until after that game. Now, they hardly ever win them.

 

[Riley82]

If we was to fire MM who would replace him who would be the candidates though?

I am just saying if we was to fire him not i think we should.

 

[JoshuaRHuffman]

If we was to fire MM who would replace him who would be the candidates though?

I am just saying if we was to fire him not i think we should.

I'd say Capers would get first nod. Winston Moss would get a look probably based on "Rooney Rule" (and I think Oakland look at him a few years ago).

I think its a slippery slope for TT to fire him. If we don't make playoffs this season, that's 4 of 6 years we haven't. I'd think he feel more confident in keeping McCarthy for consistency unless he went in-house.

 

[Riley82]

Maybe he needs abit of help with the play calling i do not know but i think MM will stay.
Packers fan since 1987.
(Obviously you guys see more than me as we do not get Much over here in the uk we have only just got NFL on espn this season.)

 

[AmishMafia]

At this point, I think it is much more likely that MM gets "Coach of the Year" honors than to get fired.