Jake Ryan to jax

LambeauLombardi

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A little surprised to see this, I thought we'd get him back at a bargain since he got injured last year. I would have liked to see him back but I'm not too bent out of shape about it either.

On top of the bad picks of the 2015 class those corners were the main reason Hayward and Hyde were let go. Montgomery was a *******, Ryan was awful early and a little better after that if he stayed healthy, looking back on it Hundley shouldn't have been drafted by any team, I'll only remember Ripkowski for the Atlanta fumble when Rodgers was in god mode, and I don't even remember the last 2 guys playing. The low moment in Ted's bad late run. Maybe Donald Driver botching Quienten Rollins name during the draft was a sign for bad things to come with this group.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Most times I agree with you but that is an odd take in my opinion. While players in their fifth demand more money teams definitely benefit from retaining draft picks even after their rookie deals have expired.

Therefore Thompson's 2015 draft has to be considered a huge failure.
Nowhere did I say the 2015 draft was other than a failure with serious inpact. The brunt of that impact, though, is through last season. It is now water under the bridge.

Perhaps your statement above that I've bolded is the point of disagreement.

I don't look at it that way. There are several Packer names we can point to (which I already have) who did not yield good value in second contracts. In fact, they are everywhere in the league.

Getting a critical mass of star and otherwise productive performance on cheap rookie contracts is essential to winning.

To wit, Kenny Clark's cap and cash cost for his rookie contract comes to a grand total of $9.4 mil. I think we can say he is a tremendous value through 2019. Having that player on that contract frees up cap to do other things. In 2020, he might be on a 5th. year option. That would still represent good value, but less so. If he's signed to an extension instead at some 8 figures per year, then the value proposition decreases sharply from the current value proposition.

What contributes more to winning? A $10 mil player playing like a $10 mil player in his second cotract? That looks like an 8-8 player. A $2.5 mil player playing like a $10 mil player improves that picture. Compound the cheap rookie contract factor across the most recent 4 draft classes (including the one to come), to a lesser or greater degree than Clark, we're talking about a pool of 38 players where the potential for performance-above-contract is far greater than with second contract players.

Another example among several: If Jason Spriggs had shown himself to be of quality RT starter caliber, Bulaga could be released with his cap used elsewhere. That did not happen.

I've mentioned before the ultimate example, the 2013 Seahawks with 5 Pro Bowl caliber players making $5 million altogether. That provided a whomping amount of cap to improve the roster elsewhere. Why did Seattle gradually tail off? Because those 5 players gradually came into their second contracts.

If high value had been captured in the 2015 draft that would have improved Packer prospects considerably for the years 2015 - 2018. From a prospective view, which is what I'm talking about, 2015 is now in the rearview mirror even if those players had turned out to be good because they would be getting paid by the Packers or somebody else on par with performance.

Instead of some woulda-shoulda-coulda, assessing the current roster should focus on what the Packers have in the 2016 - 2018 draft plus the one to come. That is where the winning value (or lack thereof) lies.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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On top of the bad picks of the 2015 class those corners were the main reason Hayward and Hyde were let go.

Very valid point, which is another pitfall of going too heavy on draft and develop mode, you start chasing your tail, thinking the next young guy is going to outplay the older more expensive guys. Randall and Rollins looked promising their rookie seasons and after that, well you know the rest of the story.
 

Mondio

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FA can leave you chasing your tail too, they both can. One leaves short on experience sometimes, the other leaves you short on useable cap space. Both can put a team in great shape too, they're both the same. They have to work out. They have to play to expectations and they can't hurt. You bring up Randall and Rollins, let's bring up their compadre in the Dbackfield, Shields. Looked promising for years, was better than that for a couple others, and they invested heavily in him. Then what happened? doesn't matter if he was relied upon as a draft pick, UDFA that looked good, a re-sign FA, or player from another team FA. When your plan doesn't work, it leaves you chasing something. They're all chasing

The cap necessitates the bulk of your team come from good drafts, unless you just happen to be able to get a lot of really, really cheap FA's that nobody else can see any value in but are really good players. That's probably even less likely than getting a starter in the 4th round in the draft every year.

anyway, I wasn't terribly impressed with Ryan when we picked him. he was ok as a run defender, I don't think this team is really going to miss him now that he's gone.
 

rodell330

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Wouldn't be surprised if they felt he was too much like Martinez and Pettine is looking for a faster, more disruptive compliment to Martinez?

Agree. Martinez is a nice compliment to the very type ILB we haven’t had in years. But he’s not who you build the defense around. It’s like who Navarro Bowman was to Patrick Willis...except we don’t have a Patrick Willis. Hopefully this draft produces one.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Agree. Martinez is a nice compliment to the very type ILB we haven’t had in years. But he’s not who you build the defense around. It’s like who Navarro Bowman was to Patrick Willis...except we don’t have a Patrick Willis. Hopefully this draft produces one.
I think that is what the Packers were hoping they got in Burks and I guess the jury is still out on him. However, if Devin White falls to #12, I wouldn't be too sad to see the Packers get him, nor if Devin Bush fell to #30. Mack Wilson in the 2nd wouldn't be bad either. I think both of the new OLB's are going to give us versatility that we have not seen on the inside outside rush, but having one of the Bush's or Wilson lined up next to Martinez, could make for a really fast, unpredictable and solid defense.
 
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Getting either Devin to take Jakes spot would make us instantly better. But getting Devin White would give our D an entirely different complexity in 2019.
 

hasamikun

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I liked Jake so I am a bit sad that he wont return. The Packers now have to draft an ILB in the first round imo.
They dont have any depth at the position and one of the Devins will be an instant upgrade to the position. If White gets to #12, he is a no-brainer.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Very valid point, which is another pitfall of going too heavy on draft and develop mode, you start chasing your tail, thinking the next young guy is going to outplay the older more expensive guys. Randall and Rollins looked promising their rookie seasons and after that, well you know the rest of the story.
There is a heavy dose of 20/20 hindsight in that assessment. If you had signed Hayward and Hyde, for example, who would you have cut to pay them? And for every Hayward and Hyde would-coulda-shoulda there are more Perry and Cobb woulda-shoulda-couldas.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Poor Ted. Gone over a year and still getting slammed.
There's a "Brett Favre Discussion" thread at the top of this forum's home page. It's 12 years after the fact and people still post there. Some stories never die.

At least with Ted, his draft classes are in play through 2020 when their rookie contracts expire. That keeps him in play.
 
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XPack

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Thus closing the book on Ted Thompson's Failed 2015 draft. :rolleyes:

1. Damarious Randall, CB (30th overall pick)

2. Quinten Rollins, CB (62)

3. Ty Montgomery, WR (94)

4. Jake Ryan, LB (129)

5. Brett Hundley, QB (147)

6. Aaron Ripkowski, FB, (206)

6. Christian Ringo, DE (210)

6. Kennard Backman, TE (213)
The only player, I felt bad about letting go was.....Aaron Rip!

Says so much about that draft.
 

rmontro

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His decisions didn't not leave with him. They are still biting us in the ***.
Exactly, Ted's one of the guys that dug the hole we're currently in.

To be fair, it's a tough job, and the salary cap stacks the deck against you being successful long term. But it still is what it is.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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There's a "Brett Favre Discussion" thread at the top of this forum's home page. It's 12 years after the fact and people still post there. Some stories never die.

At least with Ted, his draft classes are in play through 2020 when their rookie contracts expire. That keeps him in play.

Speaking of Brett Favre, I stumbled across this the other day, "poor guy", definitely living in squalor.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...mar-county-with-stock-video-footage/174224776
 
D

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Nowhere did I say the 2015 draft was other than a failure with serious inpact. The brunt of that impact, though, is through last season. It is now water under the bridge.

Perhaps your statement above that I've bolded is the point of disagreement.

I don't look at it that way. There are several Packer names we can point to (which I already have) who did not yield good value in second contracts. In fact, they are everywhere in the league.

Getting a critical mass of star and otherwise productive performance on cheap rookie contracts is essential to winning.

To wit, Kenny Clark's cap and cash cost for his rookie contract comes to a grand total of $9.4 mil. I think we can say he is a tremendous value through 2019. Having that player on that contract frees up cap to do other things. In 2020, he might be on a 5th. year option. That would still represent good value, but less so. If he's signed to an extension instead at some 8 figures per year, then the value proposition decreases sharply from the current value proposition.

What contributes more to winning? A $10 mil player playing like a $10 mil player in his second cotract? That looks like an 8-8 player. A $2.5 mil player playing like a $10 mil player improves that picture. Compound the cheap rookie contract factor across the most recent 4 draft classes (including the one to come), to a lesser or greater degree than Clark, we're talking about a pool of 38 players where the potential for performance-above-contract is far greater than with second contract players.

Another example among several: If Jason Spriggs had shown himself to be of quality RT starter caliber, Bulaga could be released with his cap used elsewhere. That did not happen.

I've mentioned before the ultimate example, the 2013 Seahawks with 5 Pro Bowl caliber players making $5 million altogether. That provided a whomping amount of cap to improve the roster elsewhere. Why did Seattle gradually tail off? Because those 5 players gradually came into their second contracts.

If high value had been captured in the 2015 draft that would have improved Packer prospects considerably for the years 2015 - 2018. From a prospective view, which is what I'm talking about, 2015 is now in the rearview mirror even if those players had turned out to be good because they would be getting paid by the Packers or somebody else on par with performance.

Instead of some woulda-shoulda-coulda, assessing the current roster should focus on what the Packers have in the 2016 - 2018 draft plus the one to come. That is where the winning value (or lack thereof) lies.

There's absolutely no doubt that players still on their rookie contracts performing at a high level present tremendous value. Nevertheless it's unrealistic to expect being able to fill the majority of the roster with such players.

I liked Jake so I am a bit sad that he wont return. The Packers now have to draft an ILB in the first round imo.

The Packers need to improve at inside linebacker/strong safety but that doesn't mean they have to use a first rounder on the position.
 

Pugger

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Tha
Poor Ted. Gone over a year and still getting slammed.

Well, when an entire draft class by a GM whose mantra was draft and develop is now gone from the roster that GM should be chastised. Ted's less than stellar drafting in his last few drafts allowed this roster to go to hell in certain areas. Let's hope Gute and company can build it back up while we still have #12.
 

gopkrs

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Tha


Well, when an entire draft class by a GM whose mantra was draft and develop is now gone from the roster that GM should be chastised. Ted's less than stellar drafting in his last few drafts allowed this roster to go to hell in certain areas. Let's hope Gute and company can build it back up while we still have #12.
You know, I can't keep from thinking that the develop part of the equation is on McCarthy. I sure hope we do better with that now.
 

rmontro

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You know, I can't keep from thinking that the develop part of the equation is on McCarthy. I sure hope we do better with that now.
Good point, McCarthy would certainly bear some responsibility for that.
Of course, he had to have something to work with. I don't really blame McCarthy for failing with Hundley, although he probably should have recognized it wasn't working.
 

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