Assistant Coach Tracker

[swhitset]

King reminds me just a bit of our venture with Tony Mandarich...so much promise, but like Tony I think he was destined for failure before he was even drafted. Not enough vetting on his physical issues. From memory what sucked for me about that draft was that TJ Watt fell into our laps at #29, a player we desperately needed, but TT traded back and got King and Vince Biegel out of the deal

For Ted’s sake I’d like to say that this is opinion using the benefit of hindsight.... but it’s not... really. I am sure I am joined by many when I say I was very disappointed when the Packers passed on Watt.

 

[longtimefan]

For Ted’s sake I’d like to say that this is opinion using the benefit of hindsight.... but it’s not... really. I am sure I am joined by many when I say I was very disappointed when the Packers passed on Watt.

War room wanted TJ, Ted over ruled them all

 

[OldSchool101]

It looks like it was written by a 3rd grader. What’s funny is that even some of the posters in this forum that I have disagreed with the most, have been able to articulate their message and stay on point better than this guy.

Ha! Whitset it just goes to show you no matter how many “facts” an article portrays (or any opinion for that matter) It’s can still be the farthest thing off base without a shred of common sense or truth to back it up and we’d better be checking it’s validity before we run amuck. Reminds me of the Feds, in the US we probably havnt been this safe since the last time they stopped working.

 

[OldSchool101]

For Ted’s sake I’d like to say that this is opinion using the benefit of hindsight.... but it’s not... really. I am sure I am joined by many when I say I was very disappointed when the Packers passed on Watt.

I also wanted a hometown guy, particularly of that pedigree. However I admittedly thought that the first pick of day 3 would prove worthy. Heck we get all night to review the top 100... and pick the one guy you just know should’ve been at least top 75 or so because there’s almost always a guy that slips through the board.
We get a guy that needs foot surgeries to start training camp?? How did we not know that? Or did we?
I can understand taking a chance on a dominant pass rusher or high profile position or talent that has big upside (thinking Miles Jack here) and gets hurt his Sr year, but we waited an entire year+ just to see what we got and missed on TJ and had to endure watching him for an entire season in Pitt while Biegel gets season ending IRd? What a cluster

 

[PackAttack12]

War room wanted TJ, Ted over ruled them all

Is this normal practice? Or does it typically depend on different organizational structures? I would think that if everyone but you in the war room wanted a certain guy, they would go with that guy. In the NBA I know that one guy overrides everyone else frequently.

 

[longtimefan]

Is this normal practice? Or does it typically depend on different organizational structures? I would think that if everyone but you in the war room wanted a certain guy, they would go with that guy. In the NBA I know that one guy overrides everyone else frequently.

Not sure, my impression was this didn't sit well

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is this normal practice? Or does it typically depend on different organizational structures? I would think that if everyone but you in the war room wanted a certain guy, they would go with that guy. In the NBA I know that one guy overrides everyone else frequently.

I'm just guessing here, but I am sure it is different with every organization, but in the end, someone probably has the most power or the ability to break ties and attempts to do "whatever works best for the organization".

In this case, using hindsight of course, TT should have listened to everyone else.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I’ll give Kevin King one more season. If he gets hurt and only plays 4 or 5 games next season then I’m done with him.

Yeah, I don't think there's much choice.

 

[gbgary]

I’ll give Kevin King one more season. If he gets hurt and only plays 4 or 5 games next season then I’m done with him.

he's got two years left on his contract. so i don't see the Packers parting with him until then. his run of bad luck has to end sometime. maybe he can be that center fielder the Packers need. less tackling involved. sad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

he's got two years left on his contract. so i don't see the Packers parting with him until then. his run of bad luck has to end sometime. maybe he can be that center fielder the Packers need. less tackling involved. sad.

The problem you run into with guys like King, Perry, Bulaga to a certain extent, etc. is that if they can't stay healthy or their performance is up and down when they are healthy, you can't count on them, yet they take up a roster spot and you have to have someone capable of backing them up if they are injured. Basically, they create an unreliable position or weak spot on your roster.

I love King's potential, but if his outlook is just an injury plagued career, I'm all for cutting ties before his contract is up, if the Packers think they have better options.

Whatever they do, I don't think you go into 2019 relying on the idea that he will be a starter for all 16+ games.

 

[gbgary]

The problem you run into with guys like King, Perry, Bulaga to a certain extent, etc. is that if they can't stay healthy or their performance is up and down when they are healthy, you can't count on them, yet they take up a roster spot and you have to have someone capable of backing them up if they are injured. Basically, they create an unreliable position or weak spot on your roster.

I love King's potential, but if his outlook is just an injury plagued career, I'm all for cutting ties before his contract is up, if the Packers think they have better options.

Whatever they do, I don't think you go into 2019 relying on the idea that he will be a starter for all 16+ games.

yup...no way. CB has to be high on the draft/free-agency priority list. at least he's cheap for two more years.

 

[HardRightEdge]

he's got two years left on his contract. so i don't see the Packers parting with him until then. his run of bad luck has to end sometime. maybe he can be that center fielder the Packers need. less tackling involved. sad.

There's no question he'll be kept on his cheap rookie contract. The question is his projected role. If you project him as a perimeter corner starter, that's one thing. If you decide not to count on that, then that decision ripples through FA and the draft.

Do you sign Breeland or some other corner to a decent FA deal or spend yet another upper round pick to get to a projected nickel combo of Alexander-Jackson-?. Do you move Williams back to corner instead of leaving him at safety or releasing him? Pettine seemed to favor a lot of dime coverages when all hands were on deck. If you're not going to count on King that 4th. corner or dime safety might take a higher priority than one might think. And if you apply more capital to D-Backfield, that's capital not applied somewhere else that can shuffle priorities.

Safeties do a lot more tackling than perimenter corners and if there was ever a perimenter corner who doesn't look like a safety regardless of injuries, this is it. The guy looks like a fish out of water when playing the slot and pretty much anything else other than man-perimeter.

I don't think the Packers have a lot of choice other than to roll the dice on King being a starter. To assume one more hole in the D-backfield leaves one more thing among the several already that need to be addressed.

 

[Snoops]

he's got two years left on his contract. so i don't see the Packers parting with him until then. his run of bad luck has to end sometime. maybe he can be that center fielder the Packers need. less tackling involved. sad.

This is exactly why there defense sucks they hold on to players to long I give u 2 years if u didn’t get hurt otherwise move along

 

[Snoops]

And breeland was our best corner when he was playing

 

[elcid]

If Breeland is brought back for one more year (I'd prefer signing him up for the long run though), I am confident in our CB group consisting of Alexander-Breeland-King-Jackson-Williams-Brown going into 2019. That being said, if indeed King is out for the majority of the 2019 campaign then it'd be wise to once again spend a high to mid round pick on the position.

 

[Mondio]

This is exactly why there defense sucks they hold on to players to long I give u 2 years if u didn’t get hurt otherwise move along

So, if he got hurt, what do you give him,

 

[gbgary]

Do you sign Breeland or some other corner to a decent FA deal or spend yet another upper round pick to get to a projected nickel combo of Alexander-Jackson-?. Do you move Williams back to corner instead of leaving him at safety or releasing him? Pettine seemed to favor a lot of dime coverages when all hands were on deck. If you're not going to count on King that 4th. corner or dime safety might take a higher priority than one might think. And if you apply more capital to D-Backfield, that's capital not applied somewhere else that can shuffle priorities.

Safeties do a lot more tackling than perimenter corners and if there was ever a perimenter corner who doesn't look like a safety regardless of injuries, this is it. The guy looks like a fish out of water when playing the slot and pretty much anything else other than man-perimeter.

I don't think the Packers have a lot of choice other than to roll the dice on King being a starter. To assume one more hole in the D-backfield leaves one more thing among the several already that need to be addressed.

williams is pretty expensive next season (cap $6m+). i say let williams go, and use his money toward earl thomas (29). i think you have to resign breeland, if he's willing, he's only 26 compared to williams 35.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If Breeland is brought back for one more year (I'd prefer signing him up for the long run though), I am confident in our CB group consisting of Alexander-Breeland-King-Jackson-Williams-Brown going into 2019. That being said, if indeed King is out for the majority of the 2019 campaign then it'd be wise to once again spend a high to mid round pick on the position.

That's the question. What risks to do take and where do you spend your capital.

 

[Mondio]

I would really like Breeland back as well.

 

[rodell330]

Yeah, I don't think there's much choice.

Yea I’m not saying cut him as he still has two more years left. What I am sayin tho is I’ll be off his bandwagon. Doesn’t matter how much “potential” you have if you’re always standing in the sidelines in street clothes....he’s off to a bad start so far smh

 

[HardRightEdge]

williams is pretty expensive next season (cap $6m+).

Once again, for like the millionth time, cap cost is not the relevant number. The $4.75 mil in cap saving if cut him is the relevant number. The choice is simple: you can have Williams or $4.75 mil in extra cap to work with. The $6.4 mil cap number doesn't enter into it.

Perry's $14.4 mil cap number is irrelvant. It's the $3.3 mil in cap savings that is relevant in a one year time frame. You can have Perry or you can have $3.3 mil in extra cap.

Cap numbers are only useful for looking backward in saying, for example, "that Perry contract was terrible". It doesn't say anything about where you're going.

Now, in order to capture all of those savings these guys have to cut within 3 or 4 days of the start of the league year on March 12, 2019 which is also the start of free agency. They have signing bonuses due at that time. So, those decisions need to be made before FA is but a couple of days old and long before the draft.

With Perry, if you wait to cut him after his $5.4 mil roster bonus comes due, then the cap savings goes negative. Williams cap savings is reduced by $1 mil if you wait. Throw Graham into the mix; his cap savings drops from $5.3 mil to zero if he's cut after the 4th. day of the league year. What this means is that the keep-or-dump decisions will be made before those signing bonuses come due, before the second wave of FA where the less than very high cost replacements might be found, and before the draft .

Some decisions get simpler if you don't assume a "win now" approach. Perry might be worth that $3.3 mil in savings which doesn't even buy a respectable rotational edge player, but the cost for that single 2019 season jumps once you have to pay that $5.3 mil roster bonus and at that point you are committed to him for the year, come hell or high water, because cutting him after that costs you cap instead of saving it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yea I’m not saying cut him as he still has two more years left. What I am sayin tho is I’ll be off his bandwagon. Doesn’t matter how much “potential” you have if you’re always standing in the sidelines in street clothes....he’s off to a bad start so far smh

That's fine. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. I'm not King's doctor. It's not like a Perry situation where it's one injury after another, year after year after year, where it is fair to judge the accumulation of injuries as a permanent diminishment of athletic ability, not just a reinjury risk.

I will say I was never on the King bandwagon to begin with. I haven't seen any on-the-field reasons so far to justify it. But whatever you spend in FA or the draft for a starting perimeter corner, which would be a substantial investment, is capital not available to be spent elsewhere. If he doesn't pan out in 2019, then I say address it for 2020.

Of course I come at this from the perspective that 2019 will not be a championship contending season, that good drafts need to be stacked, and if you expend substantial resources backstopping a risk like King you've bailed to some degree on the possibility of getting to that stack.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would really like Breeland back as well.

What's the most you would pay for him?

 

[Mondio]

What's the most you would pay for him?

Those are the important details that are above me

 

[HardRightEdge]

Those are the important details that are above me

And yet, those details are essential.