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Worth reading: MM's and TT's future, possible GM candidates

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by captainWIMM, May 4, 2014.

  1. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I attribute the extent to which we've achieved perennial contender status to (1) Rodgers, (2) McCarthy and (3) Thompson, in that order.
     
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  2. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Thompson will be the Packers GM as long as he wants to. I got the impression during this offseason that he doesn´t plan on extending his current contract though.
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yeah, before the draft it sounded like "one day at a time". Now it's, "I'm just getting started."

    Ironic, isn't it? He's starting to sound like Favre, frustrating the planning process.
     
  4. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    "Starting to sound like him"

    Until he retires, then unretires, then trashes the Packer organization and signs with one of our greatest rivals let's not directly compare the two.
     
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  5. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I wonder if he had/has a medical issue that eventually turned out to be misdiagnosed or not as bad as originally feared.
     
  6. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I can´t remember if I have seen the information anywhere else, but Jason Wilde talks about a surgery Thompson had during the offseason which allowed him to work but not to travel (that´s why he missed the owner´s meeting in Orlando).
     
  7. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Haven't looked at photos lately but he might have been tired from something like Chemo therapy. Haven't paid attention for the loss of hair.
     
  8. PWT

    PWT Cheesehead

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    I saw Ted Thompson shopping in Festival Foods in De Pere just few days before the draft was held. Ted looked to be good health at that time .
     
  9. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I take a longer view and attribute it to 1) Harlan (who put it all in place - with the temporary hiccup of promoting Sherman), 2) Wolf (who was a true "football man" and who among other things "found", trained and promoted Thompson), 3) Thompson, 4) Holmgren and McCarthy, and 5) Favre and Rodgers.

    I was happy to learn that Murphy wants to keep the structure in place by insisting Thompson's extension precedes McCarthy's. As to Thompson's health, the speculation began with the pre-draft press conference in which Thompson's speech was slurred at times. IMO the explanation for that was more likely fatigue perhaps mixed with stress and a cold or flu bug. As Wilde reported, he spit out a cough drop before the press conference.

    Green Bay’s permanent disadvantage is it’s small town reality that some players dislike. I hope going forward it’s permanent advantage will be keeping the structure Harlan initially put in place. Along with a world-wide and devoted fan base, that will bode well for the franchise.
     
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  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's nice. I was confining my remarks to the hands on deck.

    It's been my contention for some years now that Thompson's reputation as a top 5 GM is exaggerated. This was borne out with the Rodgers' injury. I've paraphrased some anonymous GM before and I'll paraphrase him again...when you have an elite QB, you start at 8-8 and work your way up. Thompson's built, on balance, a mediocre football team highlighted by a bad mix of talent on defense.

    Thompson, together with Ball (though I'm not sure who should get the credit), have done a much better job managing the cap than Thompson has done evaluating players.
     
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  11. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I fear this is again going to open up an endless, no resolution, debate but here goes. TT's reputation has been hamstrung by injuries more so than poor decisions. With Collins and Bishop in the middle of the field, Burnett looks better as does Hawk. We don't know how good B Jones, Perry, Neal, Sherrod, Bulaga, Heyward, Worthy really are. Have Clay in the post season and a gimpy Molumba is not outrun for a 1st down by Kapernut. A healthy Finley is more likely than not resigned, Quarles is not and Rodgers probably isn't drafted. The only true recent fiascoes roster wise that I can see is the backup QB's last offseason and the belief in the safeties that aren't on the roster this offseason. Overpaying marginal players is the cost of doing business. At least TT hasn't traded up to get a kicker in the 3rd round that didn't outlast his rookie contract.
     
  12. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Simply put, I am a Green Bay Packer fan. I will support any player or senior official of the Green Bay Packers. I will always be grateful to anybody who strives to make this organisation great. Anybody who leaves the Packers under a cloud, or starts making dispareging comments about the Green Bay Packers ?, "Don`t let door hit you in the *** on your way out !", (and we`ve had a few).
    I have always believed TT has had the interests of the Packers at heart, and until he proves me wrong, I will continue to give the man my support.
     
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  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree with HRE statement that Thompson is kind of overrated and Rodgers is the reason for the Packers being a perennial playoff team. The thing is though that finding a franchise QB is the most important task on every GM´s agenda and TT was able to draft one with his first pick ever and was confident enough to stick with him through the Favre fiasco in 2008.

    I think there have been teams winning the Super Bowl over the last few years having better overall balance on their roster and not relying as heavy as the Packers on their QB to win it all, but it´s hard to argue with Thompson´s success.

    Wouldn´t mind seeing him having more success drafting defensive players though or using free agency to fill obvious positions of need (with guys being signed to reasonable deals) in a year the draft doesn´t offer a lot of depth at the position (ILB this year).
     
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  14. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    That’s nice - I was taking a longer view, as I stated. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion that Thompson isn’t a top 5 GM because the Packers have an elite QB. But the two people you credit with being most responsible for the Packers’ perennial contender status were put in place by Thompson. Neither happened by accident. It wasn’t luck that brought Rodgers to the Packers: It wasn’t a need pick as you previously contended but now apparently agree (http://www.packerforum.com/threads/would-you-lose-your-mind.51507/page-7#post-553265). It was a smart pick which displayed Thompson’s discipline in sticking with his board and taking the obvious value available to him, unlike other GMs who actually had a need at QB at the time.

    McCarthy was anything but an obvious choice for HC, having never been a HC at any level before coming to Green Bay. So both Rodgers and McCarthy were deliberate, calculated choices by Thompson; neither may be in Green Bay but for Thompson, yet you place him at #3. Also, to compare Thompson replying to a question of whether he’ll stay on through the remainder of his contract by saying, “I don’t look at it like that. It’s important for me to try to do a good job today.”, to Favre who started his retirement dance in 2002 is completely unfair.

    To expand on what Poppa San wrote about injuries, Thompson also built a roster in 2010 deep enough to overcome 16 players on IR on its way to a title, a team which also overcame two significant injuries during the Super Bowl. Thompson’s pick for HC in 8 years is 82-45-1 in the regular season, with four division titles and has taken the team to the playoffs six times overall. I don’t have the stats of where Thompson’s win-loss record stands vs. the rest of the league since he’s been GM but I would not be surprised if it ranks in the top 5. In any event, he has continued the "Packers’ perennial contender status" he inherited indirectly from Wolf.
     
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  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    You can imagine my disappointment in reading Brandt's comments to the affect that the Rodgers was not perceived as a need pick despite Favre's age and count-me-in-count-me-out roller coaster. The fact it was not considered a need pick, with the foresight that he'd be the starter before his rookie deal ran out, is a strike against Thompson, not a point in his favor. A first round pick with no plan? Really?

    When a GM first takes the job he knows he's going to get 5 years to make his mark unless he turns out to be surprisingly dreadful. Thompson certainly earned his rep in the first few years on the job...McCarthy and Rodgers as you say, even if the latter was without any plan. Let's not forget bringing in Woodson, without whom there would have been no SB championship.

    However, the drafts have on balance gotten progressively weaker as the years have gone by, and there's been a notable lack of creativity and imagination in both the draft and free agent markets.

    Thompson has gotten too comfortable in my opinion. And you don't need to bestow me the right to it...that's a given.
     
  16. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    That's why I wrote "of course you're entitled to your opinion" - hardly "bestowing" you a right, just acknowledging it, which I wouldn't have included that except for your snarky, "That's nice."

    As to Thompson's pick of Rodgers, IMO the value was too great for an intelligent GM to pass up. Sitting at pick 24 and staring at a player they probably had ranked in the top 5 who plays the most important position in football...

    That said, I have expressed the opinion I wish Thompson would have been more active in UFA, as he himself has said the draft isn't for immediate needs, development of youngsters or UFA is.
     
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers have the fifth highest winning percentage in the regular season since Thompson took over. If you take away the 4-12 season in 2005 after he inherited a terrible situation from Sherman the team is third since 2006 after McCarthy was named head coach.

    As I said before, I think he´s kind of overrated but it is tough to argue with his success.
     
  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree the drafts have gotten weaker after Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey left the organization, especially in 2011 and 2012. It seems like the 2013 draft was one of the better ones, so there´s hope he´s found his magic again.
     
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  19. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    this side of the Atlantic we spell it with a z. :geek: But I agree with your post.
     
  20. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    ;)
    Yes JB, but I`m this side of the Atlantic.....lol
     
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  21. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    So if Rodgers got us to 8-8 each of these years, who then gets the credit for getting us above 8 wins, consistently into the players, and another shiny Lombardi trophy?

    It would seem that a mediocre GM's team would still be at 8-8.

    I'm confused by the logic
     
  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    No, if you play to 8-8 with a QB like Rodgers, you're not mediocre...you suck. The logic is very clear.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
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  23. PWT

    PWT Cheesehead

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    HardRightEdge

    I don't know what your source was for the comment by Andrew Brandt concerning the drafting of qb Aaron Rodgers on April 23, 2005 .

    My source is in the website below my post. It is an article by Andrew Brandt dated May 4, 2014 in MMQB entitled "Inside the War Room". This article clearly indicates that the Packers had long term plans for their First round draft QB Aaron Rodgers , when they drafted him on April 23, 2005.

    The long term plans for Aaron Rodgers was for Rodgers become the QB for Packers, when Favre retired. Favre announced his retirement from NFL and Packers on March 4, 2008. On March 10, 2008, the Packers announced that QB Aaron Rodgers was now the starting QB for the Packers.

    .QB Aaron Rodger was Brett Favre's Back up for three years between 2005 to 2007. He was trained in Mike McCarthy's QB school during March 2006, 2007 and 2008. In 2008, Rodger was ready to be THE QB of The Packers!!

    Source
    http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/07/nfl-draft-war-rooms/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 2, 2014
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Well, that view has the convenience of 20/20 hindsight. Brett Favre continued to play NFL football through the 2010 season...we were fortunate he chose not to do it in Green Bay because Rodgers would have then rotted on the bench right through his rookie contract.

    The Packers were just "trusting the board" according to Brandt; just grabbing a good value pick. There's no mention of concern for Favre's age or his making good on his gestures toward retirement. There was no plan for Rodgers...if you believe these stories.
     
  25. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Well do you?

    Ron Wolf consistently drafted QBs looking for backups, never drafting one above the 4th round (Aaron Brooks). He drafted QBs in 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, and 1999. Sherman drafted one quarterback in Craig Nall, spending a 5th on him. With all of the retirement talk out of Favre starting in 2002, the QB cupboard was getting bare. Doug Pederson was on his second stint with Green Bay and not coming back for the 2005 season. All that was left was a will-he-or-won't-he Brett Favre and Craig Nall.

    Best player on the board my hiney. Favre was getting old, talking retirement, and while he was still playing at a high level everyone knew that the day would eventually come. With one QB drafted between 2000 and 2004 the Packers needed a new Brunnel/Brooks/Hasselbeck. My guess is that they were planning to draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round - such as Charlie Frye, Kyle Orton, etc. They obviously weren't planning to draft a QB in the 1st so BPA did come into play to a degree, but only in terms of what round they drafted a QB. It was a position of need that catapulted into the 1st round because you rarely get a chance to draft the consensus #1/#2 pick at #24.

    There was a great article in the Journal/Sentinel back in 2003 or 2004. It discussed the best path for replacing a HOF quarterback. There were only four or five examples of successful replacements. The point of the article focused on whether drafting a QB of the future was the best path or waiting until retirement and then trading/finding one in free agency worked best. There was no clear answer except that replacing a HOF quarterback usually did not work out no matter how you tried.

    I probably would have tried to find a gem in the middle rounds as well until Favre did retire...but you can't pass up a top rated QB at #24. So yes no plan for Rodgers, but you'd be a fool not to take the guy when it was a position of need. What it did do is send a message to Favre. We all know that a 1st round pick at any position is a ominous warning to the incumbent starter at that position.
     
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