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Worst off-season ever

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Packman5, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I wasn't too keen on the Harrell pick, and I'm less keen on it now that he can't even make the game-day roster, but it could still prove to be a good pick in the long run. At DT last year we had a very solid run-stuffer in Pickett, but just role players alongside him. Nobody special. But in training camp, Johnny Jolly really stepped it up, and Corey Williams has also exceeded expectations. Harrell has been inactive because those players have been even better than he was expected to be, and it shows in the overall performance of the defense.

    As for Brandon Jackson, he hasn't done much yet, but if the O-line improves its run-blocking our RB's will be fine. You can't deny that RB was a need.

    You mentioned safety. Thompson drafted one in the third round. What more do you want? Apparently the only way Thompson could've satisfied your wish list is if he had about half a dozen first round draft picks.

    It's interesting that in spite of all the bad moves you think Thompson has made, you still think the team can make it to the Super Bowl. I can already see it coming. No matter how well the team does this year, people are still going to gripe.

    Why am I even writing this? The team is 3-0 and playing great, and the thread was revived mostly as a joke.
     
  2. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Harrell was drafted for the future. In case you missed it, contracts expire. Starters one year tend to age eventually and lose effectiveness.

    Jackson was drafted to fill in when needed this season, and possibly as our future RB. Mo was the starter, and still is.

    Blackmon, Bush, Walker. The argument could be made that all three of these guys would be the nickel on tons of teams.

    You want decent personnel decisions? How about re-upping the highly talented guys already on the roster? Jenkins, Barnett, Al Harris. Al was IMO the best offseason move made by any team besides Adalius Thomas to NE.

    I understand what you're saying, but maaaaybe the GM who has rebuilt the entire core of this team and built a contender from nearly ground zero has an idear of what is more important: a future anchor on the defensive line, or a safety who can be rendered ineffective by a lack of a solid front 7.

    If Al or Chuck go down, of course our season is screwed. Same as Denver with Champ, or NE with Brady/Asante, or Indy with Peyton/Freeney, or Pittsburgh with Polamalu/Ike Taylor, and on and on.

    Like I said, we've all been down this road before, but the Pack is 3-0 going into division play, and TT is proving haters wrong. He gets paid for a reason.
     
  3. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    first of all this is ridiculous.

    second of all i compeletly agree with packinblack about Harrell.
    and i for one think this inactive for the first season thing is a blessing in disguise. Harrell is big, strong and everything you could ever want in a BIG badass dlineman. BUT hes hurt right now with that arm. so since we are so deep at DT... we can take this guy.. keep him working on his game and staying healthy. then when we inevetably lose one of our stud DTs to FA or trade.... THEN you insert him and let him loose.

    BeastJack hasnt gotten a chance yet. and i for one am not beggin to replace him. we were averaging over 4 yards a carry when we needed the run game last week. (if you run the ball 3 times for 4 yards... thats a first down.. in case you couldnt figure that out.)

    I understand we havent answered every question from the offseason... but also yhou gotta remember we havent been asked these questions by the other team. were freakin 3-0. 3-0. 3-0. do i need to keep sayin this.
     
  4. de_real_deal

    de_real_deal Cheesehead

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    Your guys logic makes no sense. We draft harrell to be the D-line anchor of the future??? We have no idea how he will play in 2 years. Why not draft a guy who can help us this year and next year and IF WE FIND THAT WE NEED A DEFENSIVE TACKLE in a couple of years or in 4 or five years, we can draft one at that time or get one in free agency, whatever. Plus we get to find out if the guy we drafted is even worth keeping around in the first couple of years instead of giving him a shot in a couple of years, then giving him 2 - 3 more years to see if he can develop, then let him bolt for free agency when he has one good season.

    Man, You do not draft a DEFENSIVE TACKLE IN ROUND 1 to "maybe be a starter down the line" when you have glaring needs at other postions.
     
  5. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    yeah cuz if its 1 thing TT is bad at and we should second guess, its draft picks.

    good fight to pick.
     
  6. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    name one player available that would be a bigger contributor on this team. justifyable around our pick. and if you say Greg Olsen i swear to god. you cant... you dont know.

    please please please please please shut up. until you can get a job as a GM and then assemble a team that goes 3-0 against playoff teams... can you judge a GMs draft moves. a GM that has drafted James Jones. Mason Crosby. Greg Jennings. Daryn Colledge. Jason Spitz. AJ Hawk. Johnny Jolly. Korey Hall. ALL!!!! ALL first or second year players. STARTING FREAKING STARTING FREAKING STARTING FREAKING STARTING on a 3-0 NFL TEAM! (sorry im repeating myself, but youll bring up the same points nine times until we go 4-0 and then leave forever like the rest of negative nancy stupid knee jerk fans)
     
  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    if you're not drafting for the future of the team, what the hell ARE you drafting for?
     
  8. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    hahahaha. so true. im glad im not stupid arent you bozz.

    teams that draft based on the here and now and take players based on position are the ones that have busts continually. we meanwhile are building a solid base and then picking guys to groom... you know like real teams do.
     
  9. olddavid

    olddavid Cheesehead

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    I didn't agree with the Harrell pick at the time either. Now that I think about it more, I can see what they were doing. 300+lb talented D-lineman are hard to find. I really thought they should have traded Rodgers for more picks and drafted Quinn. That is just my opinion though. I was always high on Quinn. Look at ND now. Quinn was the whole team. I think Favre will play until he gets arthritis. :shock: 3-0 baby....the Pack is BAAAAAACK!!!!!!
     
  10. vechenzo

    vechenzo Cheesehead

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    Offseason didnt lead to a bunch of FA pickups no, but... we kept our core players, the only ones that left were the bad ones, ahman green left yes, but look he is injured now, that always happens with him, the team gets off to a good start then he gets injured and we stall out. The hell with him. Randy moss? are you serious would you seriously want him playing when he wants to for your team? Yeah he may be a good WR but i would not want somebody like him. Him, T.O. and chad johnson need to take a look at steve smith and take some pointers. Its ok to be a good wr and not be a fool too.
     
  11. de_real_deal

    de_real_deal Cheesehead

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    Im just saying, we dont need another D-lineman. Not now and not for a few years if not more.

    Round 1 we could have had Leon Hall, Michael Griffin, Aaron Ross, Reggie Nelson, Dwayne Bowe and yes, Greg Olson. These guys would have provided depth at positions we have a NEED for at this time. By the way, they would have provided depth/starters for THE FUTURE as well. Yes, even in the future we will need defensive backs, receivers and tight ends.

    I have no idea how harrel will turn out but that pick could have been used to help us now and in THE FUTURE which is all it seems anyone cares about. In THE FUTURE Brett Favre will be gone and it will take a much better team than this to compete.

    Also, of the 8 draft picks you mention as proof, one is a kicker, one is Kory Hall who barely plays, the rest of them are pretty good but none is at pro bowl level including A.J. See the "AJ starting slow thread". Take Favre out and put A-Rod in and this is a one win team at best and probably 0-3.

    You draft a QB of THE FUTURE. You draft a receiver for THE FUTURE. You draft a cornerback for THE FUTURE. You DONT draft a defensive tackle for the future in round one, on a mediocre team(talking about last year). Running back, D-line are positions that for the most part can just jump right in and start right away most of the time. Dude, you dont draft DT of THE FUTURE when you are loaded on the D-line. Ridiculous.

    /rant
     
  12. firepack84

    firepack84 Cheesehead

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    Hall or Olsen would've been nice.
     
  13. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    You're so knowledgeable. Thank you for stating that you draft defensive line for immediate play. I guess all it takes to play DL in the NFL is 300+ lbs and some speed. You're right. There's no large amount of technique to learn when you're facing 10+ year veterans on EVERY FREAKING DOWN, so yeah, it's best to just learn on the job, cause a rookie on the DL couldn't possibly be a liabiilty.

    Yeah, none of the starters mentioned have made a probowl yet. Neither have Leon Hall, Michael Griffin, Aaron Ross, Reggie Nelson, Dwayne Bowe or Greg Olson. so I don't really see your point there. Both Harris and Chuck have long contracts, so obviously the FO plans on those two shutting down teams first and second options for a few more years. The same logic you use for not drafting a DT would apply here, IMO.

    If you look at our scheme, it works at optimal capacity when the D-line is fresh. We don't have two starting-capable DT's. We have 4/5 that constantly rotate, staying fresh and bringing starter-caliber play on every down. That many guys, not all are guaranteed to be here in 1-2 years. Just doesn't happen. So why not have a guy who's been groomed to step in when that becomes a need, and a guy who can bring Pro Bowl-caliber play?
     
  14. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Dlinemen actually seem to take a little more time to be great contributers as well. I think it's probably a little to do with separating the men from the boys so to speak. It takes awhile to physically stay up with those guys in the trenches and pick up the technique. Twenty two year olds are not going to normally step on the field and beat more mature twenty eight year olds with every trick in the book under their belts.

    To say we already have all these great guys there is a little 20/20 hindsight as well. You or nobody else would put a James Jolly, for example, at the level he is playing. Now it's been GREAT that he is playing like this but did we see it in April on draft day? No.

    This appears to be a weak attempt at trying to keep some type of momentum going in the "this regime sucks" direction and management doesn't know what their doing.

    All I know is it's SEVEN IN A ROW BABY!

    I'd eat that little crow right now if I were you before you end up eating the whole damn FLOCK.
     
  15. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    quality stuff.

    ALL IN FAVOR OF FIRING TED THOMPSON and his 3-0 record and hiring a guy on a message board named de_real_deal. say AYE!

    he has really won me over with his draft genuis. if we had this guy running our team instead of Ted Thompson... we would have already won the 2008 Super Bowl in week 3.... but instead all we have is a lousy 3-0 record
     
  16. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Sorry if you misunderstood me war, but I was being sarcastic with my first paragraph, and I was aiming the other two in the direction of de_real_deal.

    I agree with you, and I really like the Harrel pick. I was trying to make the argument in favor of it.
     
  17. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    I wasn't talking to you. The guy I was talking to KNOWS who he is.

    I have a habit of agreeing with a certain thread and using it to disagree with someone else and not explaining that. Your piece was dead on.
     
  18. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Corey Williams contract is going to expire at the end of this year. Now I don't agree with taken a Defensive Lineman either but if he leaves, it'll be nice to have a 1st round Defensive Tackle to be plugged into our rotation. I'm assuming Jolly and Pickett would remain the starters. I don't agree with it but I understand the rational behind the move.

    Now I think it'd be a mistake not to sign Williams but if he wants Tommie Harris type of money then the Packers may have to let him walk.

    As for the guys you named.

    James Jones is looking pretty good at receiver right now. He may even be the 2nd or 3rd best receiver in that draft class right now. He's looked better than Bowe and Meachem.

    Donald Lee and Bubba Franks are doing pretty good at Tight End. Greg Olsen is a guy I wanted them to draft but you can't deny the fact that both Franks and Lee have stepped up their game.

    I'll take Atari Bigby over Reggie Nelson. Bigby has been rock solid.

    Jarrett Bush has proven to of been solid too. I liked Leon Hall a lot but I see no problems with Bush.

    I look back at round 1 and I think a big WHAT IF. What if Marshawn Lynch fell to us? If so then I think our running game would be a lot better right now.
     
  19. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Not that the Packers needed to draft him, Micheal Griffin will be one of the best picks in this past draft.. The kid can move outside and play corner and is physical enough to come inside an play safety. He is a dynamic defender IMO.

    Harrell will become a solid force in the middle of the line, maybe even late this year. Remember he is still working each and everyday... just not getting beat to crap in games. He will be a fresh body that they can active him late in the season. 16 games in this season.. chances are someone will go down, hope not but probable.

    Don't rule out a trade of someone like say Cole yet to fill a need...
     
  20. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    i agree with most of this. except the Marshawn Lynch thing. if we drafted Lynch, he wouldnt have gotten the carries he has recieved in buffalo because we havent run it much. So if he was here hed look just like brandon Jackson but with a bigger name.

    Just like Porky pointed out theres no one in this years draft (that we could have gotten) that is playing better at their position than what we currently have. So disagreeing with the Harrell pick is flawed. Neither Bowe or Meachem have looked as quality as James Jones. if Olsen had done a damn thing for Chicago then maybe theyd have a better record than 1-2.

    All of our so called weak spots in the offseason have stepped up and are playing NFL quality (improving from within... what many of us have been preaching since the get-go.) Bigby, JJ/Jennings, Bush, DD/Lee have all stepped up their game at arguably our "weakest" spots. the only question mark now is running game... and there isnt a running back that has stepped up besides Marshawn Lynch (who is the offense up there, so hes gonna get some numbers) however i think were fine at the RB spot too to be honest.

    SO IN SUMMARY. Bowe, Meachem, Nelson, Hall, and Greg Olsen wouldnt even crack the starting lineup on this current roster. However the guy we drafted can learn the game and step up when one of our very quality DTs inevitably goes down or gets sent packing. DT is the absolute HEART of our defense... if we need to be deep anywhere its there.
     
  21. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Michael Griffin does look good... ive seen him make a few rookie mistakes which is expected but overall he looks like he will be around for awhile.

    and i complete agree with what you wrote about Harrell. IF DT is the heart of our defense..... then someone getting traded or hurt... would cripple us defensively UNLESS WE HAVE GREAT DEPTH THERE!
     
  22. Bertram

    Bertram Cheesehead

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    Isn't Corey Williams going to be a restricted FA? Anyone know?

    I think some teams might give up a 2nd rounder for that guy.
     
  23. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    It's all nit-picky bullcrap in a weak (as in hardly a pulse) attempt to continue a crusade to discredit those (TT & Co.) that have brought this team to the level it's at.

    I'm reading a "well let's see....oh yeah, I know....Harrell was a stupid pick"
    message because "I've got to keep the ball rolling and continue to find crap" to rag on TT about.

    When you're team is 3-0 and has won seven in a row and you don't like the people behind it you find...... Harrell.
     
  24. Bertram

    Bertram Cheesehead

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    If they still don't like the Packers, are they fans? Why aren't they happy we're winning?
     
  25. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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