what would you trade for Richard Sherman?

[Deleted member 6794]

That said, I think Packer fans have a little bit of a warped view on this issue after about 25 years of really good GM's in the front office. They aren't that easy to find. A lot of times when you get rid of "really good" to try to find "great," you end up downgrading.

The main reason for the Packers having been successful over the past 25 years is that the team has had two Hall of Fame starting quarterbacks. While both Wolf and Thompson deserve a ton of credit for acquiring and drafting those guys that made it a lot easier to put good teams on the field.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We're so far from "reckless spending" in free agency and Im not asking the Packers to do anything close to that at this point. I don't consider filling a couple glaring holes as being reckless.

Is it a guarantee that the Packers win another Superbowl filling those holes in free agency?

Of course not but once again it goes along with "probabilities" and the "probabilities" go up significantly. At the very worse you can look back and say we did everything we could and there is no shame in that IMO. The shame where I see is being half cocked and ignoring the obvious expecting a different result.

We have never seen reckless spending from TT in the FA market, so at this point, its a plus in TT's favor, but a negative from the standpoint of, he hasn't done enough. Which is the blurry line. Had TT made a few big moves, that turned out to be reckless in hindsight, TT is probably not the GM right now and we aren't having this conversation. Had they been successful, TT is on his way to the HOF. Which is my point, yes, I want to see "glaring holes" filled, but I also don't want to see $15M/year busts trying to fill them. This is the first year where I have felt those holes (on defense) might be to big to overcome and am very disappointed in TT. However, in previous years, I think it safe to say, the Packers were very close to being SB participants and one monster FA signing may not have made the difference anymore than 1 or 2 less injuries or even 1-2 plays may have.

I don't think TT will ever be a high risk taking GM. So I have come to the conclusion that if you are disappointed in him that he hasn't made a risky move, then you should actually be disappointed in yourself, for thinking he would.

 

[brandon2348]

We have never seen reckless spending from TT in the FA market, so at this point, its a plus in TT's favor, but a negative from the standpoint of, he hasn't done enough. Which is the blurry line. Had TT made a few big moves, that turned out to be reckless in hindsight, TT is probably not the GM right now and we aren't having this conversation. Had they been successful, TT is on his way to the HOF. Which is my point, yes, I want to see "glaring holes" filled, but I also don't want to see $15M/year busts trying to fill them. This is the first year where I have felt those holes (on defense) might be to big to overcome and am very disappointed in TT. However, in previous years, I think it safe to say, the Packers were very close to being SB participants and one monster FA signing may not have made the difference anymore than 1 or 2 less injuries or even 1-2 plays may have.

I don't think TT will ever be a high risk taking GM. So I have come to the conclusion that if you are disappointed in him that he hasn't made a risky move, then you should actually be disappointed in yourself, for thinking he would.

Or be "dissapointed" that he is still around. He doesn't "Need to be here" and he shouldn't be. Aaron Rodgers saved his *** last year and TT comes back with this ******** offseason. It's flat out ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So I have come to the conclusion that if you are disappointed in him that he hasn't made a risky move, then you should actually be disappointed in yourself, for thinking he would.

I disagree that it's fine to accept the flaws of Thompson's MO just because that's the way he conducts business.

 

[brandon2348]

I disagree that it's fine to accept the flaws of Thompson's MO just because that's the way he conducts business.

Yeah, this is what probably blows me away the most is the "acceptance" of all this crap.

 

[PackerDNA]

Great article over at www.packersnotes.com ; "Rodgers is a Great Deodorant".
Well put and well done again by Micheal Rodney.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I disagree that it's fine to accept the flaws of Thompson's MO just because that's the way he conducts business.

I never said it was fine to accept them, I think you are confusing "accept" with "expect". As a fan, getting upset about something you have no control over, is on you. I can hate how a President runs the country, but me getting upset or expecting him to digress from his MO isn't doing anything but maybe making me feeling frustrated. This isn't saying I am accepting his MO, just that I don't expect his MO to change.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I never said it was fine to accept them, I think you are confusing "accept" with "expect".

Well, despite Thompson's body of work I expected him to address the biggest weakness on the roster in free agency and don't accept him standing pat. In my opinion it's a mistake to excuse him standing pat because that's the way he conducts business.

 

[brandon2348]

All of this has left me in a real tough spot this year. Schedule dates come out tomorrow and I'm just not that excited. Feel torn on whether to make travel plans to go to any games this year. Dealing with "lowering my expectations" that this a 10-6 one and done playoff team. It just sucks.

It didn't need to be this way but Thompson has ruined it for me.

 

[brandon2348]

Great article over at www.packersnotes.com ; "Rodgers is a Great Deodorant".
Well put and well done again by Micheal Rodney.

That's a pretty spot on read.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well, despite Thompson's body of work I expected him to address the biggest weakness on the roster in free agency and don't accept him standing pat. In my opinion it's a mistake to excuse him standing pat because that's the way he conducts business.

LOL.....you should know me better, I agree with the spirit of what you are saying.....but would replace your words "Expected him to" with "hoped he would". We all knew his MO coming into the offseason, did we really expect?

So when you say you don't accept him standing pat, how does that translate within your powers? You will no longer be a fan? You and I don't have the ability to accept or reject TT with anything other than our words or giving up following the Packers. Ultimately, that will be up to Mark Murphy to accept, excuse or reject TT and his MO.

I'm not trying to take you or anyone to the mat on wording, I am just defending my original post on expectations and how when we as fans rely on our own expectations to be met, in a sport that we have no control over, we are probably setting ourselves up for disappointment.

 

[Dantés]

The main reason for the Packers having been successful over the past 25 years is that the team has had two Hall of Fame starting quarterbacks. While both Wolf and Thompson deserve a ton of credit for acquiring and drafting those guys that made it a lot easier to put good teams on the field.

Of course great quarterbacks help. But many GM's can't find them, and others find them and can't keep a good enough team around them. It's not like you put a good QB in place and the rest is automatic. You see teams every year with great QB's who miss the playoffs because the GM has screwed up the rest of the roster construction. You don't make the playoffs 19 times in the last 26 seasons without really good decision makers in charge of the personnel.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

All of this has left me in a real tough spot this year. Schedule dates come out tomorrow and I'm just not that excited. Feel torn on whether to make travel plans to go to any games this year. Dealing with "lowering my expectations" that this a 10-6 one and done playoff team. It just sucks.

It didn't need to be this way but Thompson has ruined it for me.

I'm not trying to be a smart *** but asking you sincerely, since it seems you are looking for answers? "Do you enjoy the Packer games only if they win?" Or do you feel you "shouldn't go to a game, spend money on a team you disagree with the way it's being run"? Personally, I had fun going to games in the 80's and early 90's when I didn't even expect the Packers to win and if they did, it was a bonus. But that was me, you have to do what is right for you.

 

[Dantés]

All of this has left me in a real tough spot this year. Schedule dates come out tomorrow and I'm just not that excited. Feel torn on whether to make travel plans to go to any games this year. Dealing with "lowering my expectations" that this a 10-6 one and done playoff team. It just sucks.

It didn't need to be this way but Thompson has ruined it for me.

I'm sure you'll be terribly missed at the stadium.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

LOL.....you should know me better, I agree with the spirit of what you are saying.....but would replace your words "Expected him to" with "hoped he would". We all knew his MO coming into the offseason, did we really expect?

So when you say you don't accept him standing pat, how does that translate within your powers? You will no longer be a fan? You and I don't have the ability to accept or reject TT with anything other than our words or giving up following the Packers. Ultimately, that will be up to Mark Murphy to accept, excuse or reject TT and his MO.

I'm not trying to take you or anyone to the mat on wording, I am just defending my original post on expectations and how when we as fans rely on our own expectations to be met, in a sport that we have no control over, we are probably setting ourselves up for disappointment.

You're right about it but that doesn't stop me from voicing my opinion about the Packers. Of course not being a fan of the team anymore isn't an option.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm sure you'll be terribly missed at the stadium.

That's like saying you would be extremely missed at the combine Dantes.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Of course great quarterbacks help. But many GM's can't find them, and others find them and can't keep a good enough team around them. It's not like you put a good QB in place and the rest is automatic. You see teams every year with great QB's who miss the playoffs because the GM has screwed up the rest of the roster construction. You don't make the playoffs 19 times in the last 26 seasons without really good decision makers in charge of the personnel.

Rodgers is a generational talent and not a good quarterback though. That makes the general manager's job way easier than having to search for at least a decent starter.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sure you'll be terribly missed at the stadium.

That's like saying you would be extremely missed at the combine Dantes.

I just feel the need to post it again after that!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[PackerDNA]

We all knew his MO coming into the offseason, did we really expect?

This. I had little hope he'd change, but watched to see if he would one more time.
Not. Ever. Gonna. Happen. I'm done with him.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not trying to be a smart *** but asking you sincerely, since it seems you are looking for answers? "Do you enjoy the Packer games only if they win?" Or do you feel you "shouldn't go to a game, spend money on a team you disagree with the way it's being run"? Personally, I had fun going to games in the 80's and early 90's when I didn't even expect the Packers to win and if they did, it was a bonus. But that was me, you have to do what is right for you.

Well it's not fun going to a road game if they lose I can tell you that much. That game in Nashville last year was a complete disaster. The tickets for that game were about 380 a piece as I went with my wife to that one. Still, I can take the losses though as long as the direction of the team is on track which I don't believe it is at this point.

For me the Packers are a lifestyle and it's what I choose so I'm stuck with Ted for now. Hopefully that will change. People will say I'm into it to much and blah blah and that's fine. Those people can go do whatever makes them happy and be who they want to be. I'm comfortable with who I am. I'm doing what makes me happy along with my sports book consulting. Maybe if the Packers tank it this year I will just put more time into that.[/QUOTE]

 

[PackerDNA]

Of course great quarterbacks help. But many GM's can't find them, and others find them and can't keep a good enough team around them. It's not like you put a good QB in place and the rest is automatic. You see teams every year with great QB's who miss the playoffs because the GM has screwed up the rest of the roster construction. You don't make the playoffs 19 times in the last 26 seasons without really good decision makers in charge of the personnel.

First off, there aren't many great, elite, or however you want to put it QB's. As far as great QB's not making the playoffs, you could argue that Brees would be the only guy fitting that description, maybe Rothlesberger( but he has 3 SB's with 2 wins).
I think the biggest point made on the forum has been that no team depends on their QB for success as heavily as the Packers do on Rodgers. And that, to me, is an indictment of the talent and who put it together.

 

[Dantés]

First off, there aren't many great, elite, or however you want to put it QB's. As far as great QB's not making the playoffs, you could argue that Brees would be the only guy fitting that description, maybe Rothlesberger( but he has 3 SB's with 2 wins).
I think the biggest point made on the forum has been that no team depends on their QB for success as heavily as the Packers do on Rodgers. And that, to me, is an indictment of the talent and who put it together.

I disagree. You mentioned Brees and Roethlisberger (who went through a spell without PO's when the roster took a downturn). Philip Rivers is a darn good QB who has been sabotaged by his GM's. Romo couldn't get there for years with what Jerruh was doing to the club. Dan Marino (who, for my money, is the GOAT) missed the playoffs seven times in his career. The Colts have missed in back to back years with Luck. The Falcons went through a three year drought with Ryan.

Look, I'm not saying any of the above (other than Marino) are as good as Rodgers, but they're all somewhere on the spectrum of "great" to "elite" and their teams still missed because the rest of the roster was mismanaged. Their GM's were not able to just stick them in there and go on autopilot and make the playoffs (which is how several people characterize TT's job).

I realize the defense has been an issue and must improve. But you can't say that Rodgers is relied upon more heavily than any QB in the league. He has a top 5 offensive line-- according to PFF they are the best pass blocking unit in the game in terms of pressures allowed. And Rodgers holds the ball longer than anyone not named Tyrod Taylor. He also perennially has one of the better groups of pass catchers to throw to. This takes nothing away from him. He's amazing. But TT has also done a pretty good job of supporting him and keeping the roster healthy overall over his time as the GM.

If you want to say that TT is derelict in not signing FA's to help the defense, I think that's fair. But to say he's just been able to draft Rodgers and coast is nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

First off, there aren't many great, elite, or however you want to put it QB's. As far as great QB's not making the playoffs, you could argue that Brees would be the only guy fitting that description, maybe Rothlesberger( but he has 3 SB's with 2 wins).

The Steelers have made the playoffs in nine out of 13 seasons with Roethlisberger as their starter.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I disagree. You mentioned Brees and Roethlisberger (who went through a spell without PO's when the roster took a downturn). Philip Rivers is a darn good QB who has been sabotaged by his GM's. Romo couldn't get there for years with what Jerruh was doing to the club. Dan Marino (who, for my money, is the GOAT) missed the playoffs seven times in his career. The Colts have missed in back to back years with Luck. The Falcons went through a three year drought with Ryan.

Look, I'm not saying any of the above (other than Marino) are as good as Rodgers, but they're all somewhere on the spectrum of "great" to "elite" and their teams still missed because the rest of the roster was mismanaged. Their GM's were not able to just stick them in there and go on autopilot and make the playoffs (which is how several people characterize TT's job).

I realize the defense has been an issue and must improve. But you can't say that Rodgers is relied upon more heavily than any QB in the league. He has a top 5 offensive line-- according to PFF they are the best pass blocking unit in the game in terms of pressures allowed. And Rodgers holds the ball longer than anyone not named Tyrod Taylor. He also perennially has one of the better groups of pass catchers to throw to. This takes nothing away from him. He's amazing. But TT has also done a pretty good job of supporting him and keeping the roster healthy overall over his time as the GM.

If you want to say that TT is derelict in not signing FA's to help the defense, I think that's fair. But to say he's just been able to draft Rodgers and coast is nonsense.

In my opinion none of the quarterbacks you mentioned are even close to being as good as Rodgers though.

 

[Dantés]

In my opinion none of the quarterbacks you mentioned are even close to being as good as Rodgers though.

Brees and Marino are in the discussion with Rodgers. Luck is a step down, but not a huge one. The others are, admittedly, beneath him. But I said that. The point is that it's not uncommon for teams with great, or even elite QB's to miss the playoffs. If you can't maintain the roster around them, it will happen.

And this basically sums up the argument against TT. The QB he drafted is too good for him to get any credit for anything else with a lot of people. Oh well. I guess if one of your biggest faults as a GM is that your QB is too darn good for people to be happy with you, you're doing alright.

To bring it back to the original point-- some Packer fans have lost perspective on these issues because they've been blessed by two and half decades of strong GM performance. Most Green Bay fans under 50 have no idea what it's actually like when your roster is being put together by someone incompetent.