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What to do with Mason Crosby?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by SanDiegoCheese, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    Switching kickers or punters mid-season can be a disaster. Remember Frost? If we have to, we have to, but that should only happen if Crosby turns into a complete wreck. Otherwise, work through this and try out some other talent in the off-season. A kicker with a leg like Crosby (Franchise record) is more valuable than they used to be before the kickoff rule change - a guaranteed starting position at the 20 for the other team is way better than what we used to see before the rule change.
     
  2. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Since they moved the back to the 35 yards at kickoff most NFL kickers have little trouble kicking it deep or even out of end zone. A big leg is only great if a good accuracy comes along with it.

    A complete wreck would be???? What percentage would that equate to? The eye test says that Crosby is essentially at that level. Sure he made the last FG but even that kick was starting to veer one direction.

    Its too bad that Crosby has such a fragile ego as even a K on the practice squad would send him into an emotional tailspin. For Ted Thompson to supply some solid UFA's like (former gem Tramon Williams), Dezmon Moses, and Sam Shields, he could easily go a similar route with K if he wanted to provide some insurance.

    If not there is always Brett Maher from the Huskers in next years draft.
     
  3. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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  4. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    A big wreck would be missing more chip shots (under 35 yds) for no good reason. And mentally falling apart. Then of course we need to bring someone else in. But if he can pull out of this, better for us. Then bring in competition in the off season. No, it is not a good thing for a kicker to be inconsistent, but we need to get through the season and post season. Crosby did not prevent us from getting one SB already - if he can pull out of this he probably won't prevent another. Not sure about a fragile ego - has that been reported somewhere?

    Good article 13 Times Champ that you linked to at http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-his-slump-before-it-costs-the-packers-a-game
     
  5. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  6. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Go back and look at the kicks. Media rarely talks about holders period and coaches generally don't volunteer information. A couple holds were both off the mark and with the laces a bit off, pair that with a guy who's trying to get out of a rut and it doesn't help things.
     
  7. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Um...
     
  8. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Let me help out here...it was 20 for 27 for 74% in 2005.

    2001 was Longwell's worst year, 20 for 31 for 65%, including 7 for 14 from 40-49 yards.

    In his other 7 seasons with the Pack, his yearly averages ranged from 80 - 89%.

    His two best years were with the Vikes...93% and 94%.

    Longwell's 82% for his career with the Pack was quite good for an outdoor kicker. He was 86% with the Vikes. That 4% difference sounds like a good rule-of-thumb-adjustment for outdoor vs. indoor comparisons.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/longwrya01.htm

    I wouldn't call any of Crosby's seasons outstanding except for last year, his only season over 80%. 2007 and 2008 were decent at 79+. I'd say he's been on balance, over 6 seasons, about an average outdoor kicker at 78%...maybe a bit better than average excluding this season.

    Longwell, on balance, was the better kicker, especially if you put aside that 40-49 slump in 2001.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CrosMa20.htm

    On the general issue of FG %, I'd look at the stats for 31-49 yards to gauge general effectiveness.

    Even the worst kickers make nearly everything from 30 on in (the league is 160 out of 161 this season from that range). Some kickers get more chip shots to pad their %. From 50 on out, stats get distorted as well...kickers without big legs are not asked to try the long ones as often (fewer misses raising overall %), whereas kickers with big legs are asked to kick the long ones more often (more misses dropping overall %).

    Further, regarding long kicks, even the best kickers with extended resumes...guys like Akers, Vinatieri, Janakowski...are at about 50% from 50+. Which raises the question of the wisdom of even trying those kicks unless the clock is running down, especially if you have a decent punter or short yardage to go.

    31 - 49 is where you expect your kicker to earn his pay.
     
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  9. Passepartout

    Passepartout I Pooted!

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    Here is hoping he can get out of it. Especially if you want to get into the playoffs. As people have slumps. But to cut him would be a huge mistake!
     
  10. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Meanwhile tonight, Falcons kicker Matt Bryant was sent out to attempt a 55-yarder... and he had MADE HIS LAST 6 50+ Yarders.....

    He made it again.

    Imagine that Packer fans!
    MAKING a streak from 50+ instead of a missing em all streak!
     
  11. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    We ARE talking about a guy who just barely missed a 69 yarder. Great power, and he'll work through it. That's not to say a little offseason competition wouldn't do him some good, and plenty of good kickers go undrafted every year. Give him some kicks he can make to prime the pump, and move him back as his confidence rises
     
  12. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Actually, Bryant is 7 for 7 from 50+ over the last 3 season. In his first 9 years in the league, he was 3 for 12.
     
  13. jaybadger82

    jaybadger82 Cheesehead

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    Glad to have Bryant on my fantasy team but he kicks in a lot of domes and, when outdoors, in pleasant weather. He wouldn't be so consistent in some of the league's other divisions...
     
  14. Bagadeez04

    Bagadeez04 Cheesehead

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    Crosby's missed kicks in and out of domes. I don't think we should want a kicker who let's the mental aspect of kicking get the better of him. I mean, that would seem pretty basic to me.

    You want a kicker who, when he misses (occasionally), is able to put it behind him.

    Crosby is just mentally not cut out for this job. I don't want to hear about bringing in competition in the off-season, he needs to be gone in the off-season. I'm not being reactionary, just realistic. He's not the right guy for the job.
     
  15. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Both McCarthy and Slocum have called Crosby mentally strong or tough. Those opinions are about to be put to the test. Because of their high opinion of him, IMO the best we can hope for is for competition to be brought in during the next training camp.

    Regarding the salary cap if a change is made next season: Crosby signed a 5-year contract totaling $14.75M before the 2011 season. It included a $3M signing bonus so only $1.8M (3 years worth) would accelerate to the 2013 cap. Crosby is due $2.4M in salary in 2013 (and $150K in a workout bonus) so except for the cost of a new K, waiving Crosby would be a net plus regarding the cap.
     
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  16. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    You got a guy thinking about not missing, rather than making a FG. Big difference, imo. He's got a case of kickers' yips.
     
  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    If Crosby does not turn it around down the stretch, there will be competition in camp.

    There's no edge in giving Crosby anything but a vote of confidence...until there's a viable alternative.
     
  18. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Crosby was better today, but still had a 50% accuracy on FG's of a challenging length. Kicked another out of bounds. I sure don't feel confident of the Pack making a 45+ yard FG with Crosby.
     
  19. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    Can we finally be done with this nonsense about firing/releasing Crosby now?

    I'm sorry, but just in my humble opinion I believe this is the stupidest arguement we've had in a long time.
     
  20. P-E-Z

    P-E-Z Cheesehead

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    Ummm who is signature.... its really distracting.... in a good way..
     
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    For now. There will be another kicker in camp. MM double clutched on that 47 yarder..."no" then "yes"...a little crises of confidence from the head coach, wouldn't you say?
     
  22. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    Yes I'd have to agree. But also if you look at how that game was going up to that point, with the Vikings sticking around I think Mike might have just wanted 7 instead of 3. Or it might have been a try at catching the Vikings not ready on defense (which did happen) or a hard count to get them offsides. Maybe I'm reaching here, but those options might have been going through McCarthy's head.

    Most likely we'll see competition in camp, but I don't think you'll see the Packers invest much in a kicker in the off season whether that be draft picks or free agency money. If Crosby plays well down the stretch it will be his job to lose again next summer. It really all hinges on Crosby's performance from here on out. A lot of football left.
     
  23. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Crosby far and away owns the worst FG percentage in the NFL this year. I'm in favor of sticking it out with him and hoping he comes around, but I hardly think talk of replacing a kicker who is over 10 percentage points behind the next worst kicker in the league is a stupid argument. At least bringing in someone to challenge such a kicker certainly isn't unprecedented.
     
  24. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    Don't blame him. After that shanked kick off, I was finally resigned to the idea that he was perhaps done. Then he made the 49 yd kick and another that played a big role in us winning. Have to admit, without that last FG, our 6 pt lead, along with a swing in momentum, could have been wiped out with the next MN drive - it was perhaps the biggest kick of his career. So maybe this can at least get him through the season. For sure, other kickers need to be tried out before next season. Meanwhile, the MN kicker who got Longwell fired and was kicking lights out previously shanks and easy one. Perhaps this kicker's syndrome is contagious?
     
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It is worth noting that the state of the art in place kicking has ratcheted up over the last decade, on a par with the passing game.

    We could talk about the dozen reasons that might be (biomechanical training, sports psychology, better field conditions, more domes, better pay/career path, more college emphasis/scholarships, etc., etc.), but the fact of the matter is that 16 of the top 21 all-time FG % leaders are playing in the league right now. 30 of the 31 all-time leaders have all played in the league as recently as 2009.

    The median average kickers in the league through last week are Bryant (15th out of 30 qualifying at 85.3%) and Bironas (16th. out of 30 qualifying at 83.3%).

    The median average kicker for 2011 was Hauschka at 83.3%.

    The median average in 2010 goes to Dawson/Kaeding/Barth at 82.1%.

    Even if you discount Crosby's recent slump, and give him some points for playing outdoors, he comes out about average for an NFL kicker. Even without the slump, some competition is warranted. Especially when you consider nearly all of these all-time kickers populating the league came in as low draft picks and FAs.
     

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