What is the word on BJ Raji?

[JBlood]

If its a complete tear and he has surgery, he's out for a minimum of 12 weeks, probably longer. We may have seen the last of B.J. as a Green Bay Packer.

 

[Vrill]

Honestly, I dont see how this hurts us that bad. They were wanting to get smaller/quicker along the DLine anyway.

Yeah, it sucks to lose him, but hey. I dont think this will hurt what we do much.

 

[Vrill]

And really..............how many snaps per game was Raji going to get anyway? 15? 20?

 

[easyk83]

Honestly, I dont see how this hurts us that bad. They were wanting to get smaller/quicker along the DLine anyway.

Yeah, it sucks to lose him, but hey. I dont think this will hurt what we do much.

Actually this might hurt our ability to get smaller and quicker on the DL. Tough to play a Datone Jones at 285 without Raji's bulk right next to him.

 

[easyk83]

And really..............how many snaps per game was Raji going to get anyway? 15? 20?

30-40.

 

[Oski]

They way he was playing this is a big loss. Not sure why others are implying otherwise

 

[HardRightEdge]

A few thoughts:

1) "Getting smaller and quicker on the defensive line" does not apply to the nose tackle in base defense.

2) Vrill is right. Raji was not looking at getting many snaps in nickel this season. He was teed up to be the base NT and that's about it; we run base about 1/3 of the time which equates to about 20 snaps per game, plus or minus. He would have been looking at only spot duty in nickel. The guys looking at possibly taking 2/3 of the snaps this year would not have included Raji as in past seasons...the heavy work load looked to be falling to Daniels and Jones regularly working both base and nickel.

"Smaller and quicker" looks to be the deal in nickel...Jones, Daniels, some Neal, maybe some Peppers up front. Raji would have been a "give a guy a blow" substitution or an injury backup.

In short, Raji was looking to get 20 - 25 snaps per game.

3) I noticed Raji playing a lot of 1 gap this preseason (instead of 0 gap over the center as we saw a lot of last season with Pickett). It would appear Capers was trying to get more aggressive...more penetration off the snap from the NT position.

The gapping is also used in the hybrid 4-3. We've seen some of this...the three down linemen offset away from Peppers' side.

The long and short of it is a guy like Boyd who is fairly athletic for a big man and has some regular season experience should be the default guy in the absence of Guion. Pennel's looked pretty good, and D-Line transition from college ball is relatively simple compared to other positions. If Guion gets PUPed or released, I like the little I've seen of Robinson.

4) I'd be surprised if Pickett was brought back. He's old; he's become deathly slow; he finished last year with a bum knee(s). The time to move on came and went.

5) I do not see losing Raji as the major issue some others seem to panicking over.

 

[thisisnate]

So can we like... cut him now?

 

[Pkrjones]

So can we like... cut him now?

Waive-injured means that the Packers & Raji would need to negotiate a settlement, which is usually the expected duration of recovery I believe. Since this is a season-long injury/recovery I doubt that there's any financial gain in waiving him injured. IR him, have him "around" for rehab and work on a deal for next season wouldn't be the worst thing for GB.

 

[Croak]

When he went out last night, who replaced him and how did they do?

 

[HardRightEdge]

So can we like... cut him now?

That's an interesting question.

If he's IRed, the Packers will be paying him $3.1 million...for what? The right to negotiate with him as free agent next season which is otherwise free of charge?

The fact he's on a one year deal, with the only guaranteed money so far as I can determine being the $500,000 signing bonus that's already sunk money, makes waiving him a serious option.

I believe we could "waive injured" him with a settlement. I doubt any NFL team would pick him up...guys getting picked up off of "waived injured" is fairly rare. Rarer still, one would think, for a guy owed this money with a season ending injury.

If Raji comes back rehabbed and healthy, we can bid for him in the FA market, which is what we would have had to do anyway if we IRed him and paid him.

Stay tuned...there are solid arguments to let him go. This was supposed to be his "last chance at redemption" season; he would not be the first player to get a "fail" for lack of "availability".

 

[HardRightEdge]

Waive-injured means that the Packers & Raji would need to negotiate a settlement, which is usually the expected duration of recovery I believe.

If the settlement is necessarily for the full year salary, then you're right...no monetary advantage to waiving him vs. IR.

The problem still remains: what kind of contract, if any, could be offered to him in 2015 free agency with nothing to go on except a medical report and no demonstration of "redemption" in the mean time, while several young guys will have the chance to take his job regardless.

 

[HardRightEdge]

There's a compensatory draft pick argument, too. If we keep Raji and then let him walk, there is a chance we get a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick. We can't replace Raji with that kind of pick, but it can help reduce the damage.

I dunno about a 3rd. or 4th. rounder, but a possible compensatory pick of some kind would be a sufficient reason to keep him if the injury settlement needs to be full-boat salary.

Though the NFL "formula" for compensatory picks is a guarded secret, the league has stated they consider three main factors:

1. Size of the contract received in free agency
2. Playing time during the first year with the new team
3. Post season awards during the first year with the new team

Since Raji is likely to get something close to the vet minimum, unless he lands a starting job somewhere and makes the Pro Bowl the pick should be expected to be on the low end if any is awarded at all.

 

[Pkrjones]

There's a compensatory draft pick argument, too. If we keep Raji and then let him walk, there is a chance we get a 3rd or 4th round compensatory pick. We can't replace Raji with that kind of pick, but it can help reduce the damage.

The Comp pick formula is "a secret", but there are general guidelines in figuring out these picks. 3rd round picks are reserved for teams that lose a key player to a multi-year$40+Mil contract (i.e. $8Mil+/yr, Mike Wallace to Miami for 5yr/$60Mil). 4th rounders are generally multi-year $30-$39Mil contracts ($6-7.99Mil/yr, i.e. Connor Barwin 6yr/$36Mil), 5th roundes avg. $4.5-5.99Mil/yr. and so on.

TT signed Julius Peppers (3yr/$26Mil) and potentially lose Raji (1yr/$4Mil). The only '14 FA loses of note are James Jones (3yr/$10Mil), CJ Wilson (1yr/$795K) and EDS (4yr/$14Mil)... I doubt there will be any comp picks in '15, and Raji possibly leaving won't factor in at all.

 

[Pkrjones]

I'm well aware of how compensatory picks work, and part of the reason I said 3rd or 4th is because if it would be the value of a 5th or lower we'd probably just re-sign him ourselves.

Apparently you're not well aware... that would mean Raji would get offered a 4yr/$24Mil contract at minimum. If there was that type of interest in his services AFTER a season-ending bicep injury why did he have to accept only a 1 yr/$4Mil contract in '14? NOBODY wanted his services, he'll fetch NO comp pick if he signs elsewhere in '15.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Torn biceps? Take a lesson from Gilbert Brown. Buck up. Play through it (or at least try) and heal up in the offseason.

Didn't Terrell Suggs do the same thing too a few years ago?

 

[Pkrjones]

He was asking for $9 million/year and teams didn't bite. The $4 million for 1 year was a DISCOUNT because Raji wanted the opportunity to come in, have a good year, and cash in. Raji wasn't willing to accept a long-term contract at $4 million/year. Raji was OFFERED $8 million/year by the Packers and he turned it down: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/12/28/5251286/bj-raji-contract-packers

Also, my understanding of the bicep injury is that it is not debilitating, so I don't think teams will have an issue with it when Raji shops FA. If anything, I think they'll see him as a rested player that didn't play much if at all in 2014 and is in the prime of his career.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...aji-for-one-season-b99225393z1-250426001.html

"Nose tackle B.J. Raji, an unrestricted free agent who had turned down an $8 million per year offer from the Packers during the season, signed a one-year deal that NFL sources told the Journal Sentinel was worth $4 million and NFL Network reported also featured $2.5 million of incentives.

The Packers stood firm on the one-year offer they made after the season and waited while Raji surveyed the rest of the market. The only other teams to show interest, according to NFL Network, were Oakland and Kansas City."

Raji & his agent GROSSLY overplayed their hand by turning-down TT's in-season offer. KC went on to sign Vance Walker for 3yr/$13Mil. Coming off of a season-ending injury Raji WILL NOT be getting his $8+Mil/yr. contract... and he'll be lucky to see $4Mil/yr. again.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Vet minimum? You're kidding right? There's absolutely no way we would allow him to walk for the veteran minimum. I'm well aware of how compensatory picks work, and part of the reason I said 3rd or 4th is because if it would be the value of a 5th or lower we'd probably just re-sign him ourselves. Lets break down your 3 points:
1) Size of NT contracts is generally sizable
2) This depends, but Raji would likely be signed as a starter meaning pretty good playing time.
3) There is no way to know what Raji will do, but he has made the Pro Bowl before.

So, you think Raji's 1 year, $4 million contract with no guarantees other than a $500k signing bonus is sizable? The guy was tainted by a couple of years of tape chock full of quitting. And that's when he was healthy. What will he get coming off a serious injury? A lot less. This was to be his reputation rehab year...now he's worse off than he was in the last free agency period.

So, if he takes something close to the vet minimum with a small signing bonus in order to come to OTAs and camp with the Packers, so be it. Then we forgo a possible pick. You choose your preference, but it certainly won't be any 3rd. or 4th. rounder.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Raji turned down $8 million per year before he stunk up every ballpark from coast to coast.

That offer counts for nothing now, except the Packers were fortunate he did not take it, injury or not.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I really like how Mike Pennell has looked.
And I was excited about Guiyon when we got him. But the guy's been hurt nonstop BEFORE we've even played any games.

What's the size difference between Raji & Jolly?

Anyway, this isn't a death-blow like losing Rodgers, Matthews, Woodson have been.
But don't act like it's just a guy. He's good, and playing NT, I expected him to be a difference-maker there. Dammit.

On that note:

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[HardRightEdge]

It's funny how excited people were to have him start for us just a few days ago, and now people think he's no better than a veteran minimum guy.

I was not particularly excited. I would not have signed him for the $4 million. Quitting is a pox upon your house.

And you presume that the surgical repair of a torn bicep is like going in for a brake job...a little of this, a little of that, good as new. This is a serious injury. NFL teams do not pay top dollar, or close to it, for a guy with a tarnished reputation and in recovery when the most you can see on him is a medical report and a perfunctory workout.

You treat this situation like nothing happened between 2011 and today, performance-wise, and that there has been no injury.

Remind me again...what did Minnesota pay Desmond Bishop?

 

[longtimefan]

Greg Jennings...Contract he got and the comp picks we got. Greg was hurt his final year, turned down an offer from the Pack

I know diff position and all that but comp pick should be less as Greg did play some his last year here

 

[lambeaulambo]

Next fatty up!

 

[brandon2348]

Don't get me wrong I really like how we are getting faster and more athletic up front. I have already noticed the defense playing at a much faster speed in the pre-season. I am happy with all the fat guys going bye bye on the D-line. Pickett, Worthless, Jolly, and now Raji are all gone now.

However if you watch the Rams pre-season tape Raji was making some serious penetration into the back field against a pretty good Rams O-line on a consistent basis. Fisher even made a comment after the game how stout we were up front. It was a very pleasant thing to see. Now I understand that he was 1-gaping and that is what it looks like he does best but can one of these young guys replace him and provide that kind of penetration?

In January we will probably be playing teams like the Niners, Seahawks that have a power running game and like to run the football. I really hope Pennell(I really like), Boyd, or Guion can provide that penetration 1-gaping from the nose. If they cant it will be a big deal we lost Raji.

As far as his contract does it really matter right now? I mean I guess if you want to get down to it were kind of lucky he didn't accept the bigger deal he was offered as he hasn't put together a solid season in awhile and now he is hurt.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I think Jolly is about 20 pounds lighter than Raji.
But I like Jolly because he's an antagonist out there, has some attitude as Mike Daniels does.

The thing is you know we're going to suffer MORE injuries along the DL.
Think about it, with our pace always, it's probably 1 or 2 a month.

Jolly and Pickett better stay in shape.

http://packersinsider.com/2014/08/deja-vu-again-sources-raji-out-for-season-with-torn-bicep/