Tight Ends Situation

tynimiller

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We don't have the prototypical U or Flex type TE presently proven. We have the inline blocking on lock with Lewis. We also have the pass catching and gap scheme/blocking H type in Deguara who closed out 2021 very well in his first true season of play.

Presently Tonyan is the most fitting for the flex/move type TE pass threat...but no one knows what he is going to be or when. Davis illustrated the potential to be that role, and I think in house they are VERY high on him. Alize Mack when at Notre Dame was the inline blocking type with soft hands and I'm actually surprised he hasn't made his way to a active roster yet...he is the perfect PS stash for days without Lewis IMO.

I'd be keeping eyes out on the FA market as camps and preseason cuts start to happen around the league as well...I especially think we may be in the TE market if Tonyan doesn't show promising signs of health and Davis struggles.
 
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We don't have the prototypical U or Flex type TE presently proven. We have the inline blocking on lock with Lewis. We also have the pass catching and gap scheme/blocking H type in Deguara who closed out 2021 very well in his first true season of play.

Presently Tonyan is the most fitting for the flex/move type TE pass threat...but no one knows what he is going to be or when. Davis illustrated the potential to be that role, and I think in house they are VERY high on him. Alize Mack when at Notre Dame was the inline blocking type with soft hands and I'm actually surprised he hasn't made his way to a active roster yet...he is the perfect PS stash for days without Lewis IMO.

I'd be keeping eyes out on the FA market as camps and preseason cuts start to happen around the league as well...I especially think we may be in the TE market if Tonyan doesn't show promising signs of health and Davis struggles.
I Had TE as a top 3 need last draft. I guess because of the situation of Sternberger and Lewis likely gone relatively soon. Then maybe a minor ? On Tonyan injury and where his ceiling is? Then coupled with questions in the Receiving area in general and it equates to a need, for me anyway. I’m obviously not privy to internal discussions and day to day evaluations and so I stand corrected.

Obviously we have a couple guys on our roster that our staff thinks have unlocked potential there at TE. Which is terrific if that’s the case because it allows us to prioritize other positions also. I hope I was wrong and we already have what we need.
 
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Heyjoe4

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I Had TE as a top 3 need last draft. I guess because of the situation of Sternberger and Lewis likely gone relatively soon. Then maybe a minor ? On Tonyan injury and where his ceiling is? Then coupled with questions in the Receiving area in general and it equates to a need, for me anyway. I’m obviously not privy to internal discussions and day to day evaluations and so I stand corrected.

Obviously we have a couple guys on our roster that our staff thinks have unlocked potential there at TE. Which is terrific if that’s the case because it allows us to prioritize other positions also. I hope I was wrong and we already have what we need.
I agree with you. I just don't feel good about the current TE group. Tonyan had one stellar season, then started slow, then tore his ACL. DeGuarra looked like he was improving last year, but even if he does, he doesn't strike me as the type of receiving TE that scares a secondary.

So I think you were right to identify TE as an area of need, and I still think it is a need. This past draft stunk for TEs, and I don't think FA or a trade is viable this year. So MLF has to play the cards he has.

Is Sternberger around? He just never panned out. Or at least he hasn't yet.
 

realitybytez

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Is Sternberger around? He just never panned out. Or at least he hasn't yet.
definitely not one of gute's finer draft picks. the sad thing is that foster moreau was still available when the packers drafted him. moreau hasn't lit the world on fire either but he has had a better career than jace.

after leaving the packers, sternberger has had short stints with the seahawks, the wft, and the steelers. but he has not played in a game since he left the packers.
 
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I agree with you. I just don't feel good about the current TE group. Tonyan had one stellar season, then started slow, then tore his ACL. DeGuarra looked like he was improving last year, but even if he does, he doesn't strike me as the type of receiving TE that scares a secondary.

So I think you were right to identify TE as an area of need, and I still think it is a need. This past draft stunk for TEs, and I don't think FA or a trade is viable this year. So MLF has to play the cards he has.

Is Sternberger around? He just never panned out. Or at least he hasn't yet.
If you look back at several of our successful Offensive seasons with Rodgers, we had a formidable pass catching/TD, RedZone threat type TE. I didn’t include a successful 2016 campaign, but we also had a stable of in-system veterans at WR that lessened the need at TE.

2011 Finley 767 yards 8 TD’s
2020 Tonyan 586 yds 11 TD’s

While obviously coming off injury, Big Bob is still our best chance at a more immediate answer. I am thankful that we at least have 3 veteran TE’s
who could pick up some slack until Tonyan gets up to speed.
 

Heyjoe4

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If you look back at several of our successful Offensive seasons with Rodgers, we had a formidable pass catching/TD, RedZone threat type TE. I didn’t include a successful 2016 campaign, but we also had a stable of in-system veterans at WR that lessened the need at TE.

2011 Finley 767 yards 8 TD’s
2020 Tonyan 586 yds 11 TD’s

While obviously coming off injury, Big Bob is still our best chance at a more immediate answer. I am thankful that we at least have 3 veteran TE’s
who could pick up some slack until Tonyan gets up to speed.
Good point. And there was also 9 years between Finley and Tonyan. I hope Tonyan gets back early and regains his 2020 form. We'll know if they keep him off PUP and put him on the 53.
 

Heyjoe4

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definitely not one of gute's finer draft picks. the sad thing is that foster moreau was still available when the packers drafted him. moreau hasn't lit the world on fire either but he has had a better career than jace.

after leaving the packers, sternberger has had short stints with the seahawks, the wft, and the steelers. but he has not played in a game since he left the packers.
Thanks for the update. I'll admit I liked the pick. He looked good coming out of college. That's how it goes. Even with a lot of talent, some guys can't make the jump to the NFL. Hope Tonyan gets back earlier than expected. Where is Moreau playing?
 

Heyjoe4

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Moreau is currently playing for the Raiders. He had some decent games while Waller was out last season but other than that hasn't contributed a whole lot.
Thanks. Yeah i would guess it's hard to get snaps ahead of Waller.
 

Pkrjones

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Thanks. Yeah i would guess it's hard to get snaps ahead of Waller.
Moreau was looked at to be a big(ger) contributor in 2-TE sets, also...but wasn't. Situations were there (Ruggs release, Waller injury) & Moreau didn't seize the opportunity. :( Not regretting Gute not choosing him.
 

gopkrs

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definitely not one of gute's finer draft picks. the sad thing is that foster moreau was still available when the packers drafted him. moreau hasn't lit the world on fire either but he has had a better career than jace.

after leaving the packers, sternberger has had short stints with the seahawks, the wft, and the steelers. but he has not played in a game since he left the packers.
I liked Sternberger's size and hands and was hoping he was a keeper. But he was afraid of the big hits and anticipated them. Which is why he didn't make it imho.
 

Heyjoe4

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Moreau was looked at to be a big(ger) contributor in 2-TE sets, also...but wasn't. Situations were there (Ruggs release, Waller injury) & Moreau didn't seize the opportunity. :( Not regretting Gute not choosing him.
Good to know. TE is a tough position to fill. In-line blockers are needed, seam-stretching receivers are needed, and guys that can do both are really needed. I hope Tonyan gets back earlier. We're gonna need him.
 

captainWIMM

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Moreau was looked at to be a big(ger) contributor in 2-TE sets, also...but wasn't. Situations were there (Ruggs release, Waller injury) & Moreau didn't seize the opportunity. :( Not regretting Gute not choosing him.

Moreau had 22 receptions for 248 yards in the six games Waller missed last season. While that's definitely not elite productio it's better than everything Sternberger ever did with the Packers.
 

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The situation at TE is underwhelming. Given Bakhtiari's problems with returning from an ACL, Tonyan will probably land on the PUP and gradually work his way back. I'm hoping he starts to make decent contributions by the end of the season. Just goes to show just how bad last season's injury epidemic devastated the offense. Its going to carry over into 2022.
 

Heyjoe4

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The situation at TE is underwhelming. Given Bakhtiari's problems with returning from an ACL, Tonyan will probably land on the PUP and gradually work his way back. I'm hoping he starts to make decent contributions by the end of the season. Just goes to show just how bad last season's injury epidemic devastated the offense. Its going to carry over into 2022.
Between Jenkins and Tonyan, it will be interesting to see which on, or both, starts the season on PUP. I'm sure Jenkins will be on that list. They may hold Tonyan off the list if he can make it back by week three or four.
 

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The packers are probably average at tight end. There aren’t many elite tight ends out there and while i think the packers corps is below average in the receiving game, i think they’re above average at run blocking.

One of the more bothersome elements of recent packers drafts, for me, is completely ignoring the late round, physical marvel projects at tight end. Sure, the hit rate is low but that’s why you take a few shots to try and find a great tight end.
 
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The packers are probably average at tight end. There aren’t many elite tight ends out there and while i think the packers corps is below average in the receiving game, i think they’re above average at run blocking.

One of the more bothersome elements of recent packers drafts, for me, is completely ignoring the late round, physical marvel projects at tight end. Sure, the hit rate is low but that’s why you take a few shots to try and find a great tight end.
To be fair, we did indirectly acquire a late round TE (Jacksonville) from the Colts PS. Tyler Davis was a #206 overall draft pick in 2020 and we grabbed him early last season (Sept) It’s possibly he was even on our radar and got selected before our turn? Notice we selected both Jake Hanson and Stepaniak just a few selections after Tyler Davis was picked. Yet very soon after Tyler got signed to Colts PS, we snagged him and spent an active roster spot doing so.

As far as the project upside you mentioned earlier, At 6’4.3/252lb Tyler ran a tremendous 20 yard split of 2.59. As a comparison, MVS ran a 2.58 split.
What I thought was promising is neither Sternberger or Deguara beat Davis at the 3-cone, 10-yard, 20 yard split or the 40 yard time, yet Tyler is bigger than both TE’s.

 
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captainWIMM

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Given Bakhtiari's problems with returning from an ACL, Tonyan will probably land on the PUP and gradually work his way back. I'm hoping he starts to make decent contributions by the end of the season.

Just because Bakhtiari had setbacks in his recovery from a torn ACL doesn't mean Tonyan will suffer one as well.
 

tynimiller

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Honestly, Jared Cook proved not just last year but for the last 5 seasons to be still very dependable and durable (playing 14 or more games every season - three times 16). He has logged over 500 snaps each of those 5 seasons (644 snaps last season) and has put up 4 or more TDs in all but 2017 of those seasons. He delivered over 500 yards each of those seasons, including last year at 564 yards.

Outside of Cook - I don't think I'd sign anyone at this point that is out there - unless we see a surprise cut occur.

I know a lot of people are worried about our TE group, and to be fair I would put it in our top 3 weakest or 'most unknown' position groups we have. Which when you think about it is saying something because we still have one of the best down-inline blocking TEs the game not only has seen but active today in the NFL with Lewis. That makes defenses especially vulnerable to his lumbering slip out passes we see he and AR connect on at times which I think we could see even more of this year. Yes behind that is again at best "unknown" but to be able to have MLF and AR know they have Big Dog manning the main TE role in this offensive scheme is big.

Bonus is we have an ascending and truly basically second year guy in Deguara that is that flex Hback (or glorified FB) role that the team was very high on (3rd round); who really started coming into form in the second half of the season last year.

I would prefer to have a more surefire receiving threat to pair with Lewis but I do strongly feel there is as much a chance as there isn't that someone from Deguara/Tonyan(when healthy) and Davis will fill that role either alone or by committee.

Not a comfortable feeling being in a 50/50 proposition if you will at the position...until about week 4 or 5 of the regular season laying the foundation of expectations, I'm going to choose to focus on the positive likelihood. :)
 

Heyjoe4

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I didn't imply that Tonyan wouldn't heal like Bakhtiari, only that the Packers would be even more cautious than usual.
Bakh's problems with getting back strike me as very unique. Usually guys get back within a year or right around a year from ACL tears. As for Tonyan, I'm hoping he doesn't start the season on PUP, meaning the team expects him back earlier than 6 weeks. I think Jenkins will start the season on PUP. I think his injury came later and he's a big guy. It's just harder to heal when you weight 300 plus pounds.
 

Heyjoe4

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Honestly, Jared Cook proved not just last year but for the last 5 seasons to be still very dependable and durable (playing 14 or more games every season - three times 16). He has logged over 500 snaps each of those 5 seasons (644 snaps last season) and has put up 4 or more TDs in all but 2017 of those seasons. He delivered over 500 yards each of those seasons, including last year at 564 yards.

Outside of Cook - I don't think I'd sign anyone at this point that is out there - unless we see a surprise cut occur.

I know a lot of people are worried about our TE group, and to be fair I would put it in our top 3 weakest or 'most unknown' position groups we have. Which when you think about it is saying something because we still have one of the best down-inline blocking TEs the game not only has seen but active today in the NFL with Lewis. That makes defenses especially vulnerable to his lumbering slip out passes we see he and AR connect on at times which I think we could see even more of this year. Yes behind that is again at best "unknown" but to be able to have MLF and AR know they have Big Dog manning the main TE role in this offensive scheme is big.

Bonus is we have an ascending and truly basically second year guy in Deguara that is that flex Hback (or glorified FB) role that the team was very high on (3rd round); who really started coming into form in the second half of the season last year.

I would prefer to have a more surefire receiving threat to pair with Lewis but I do strongly feel there is as much a chance as there isn't that someone from Deguara/Tonyan(when healthy) and Davis will fill that role either alone or by committee.

Not a comfortable feeling being in a 50/50 proposition if you will at the position...until about week 4 or 5 of the regular season laying the foundation of expectations, I'm going to choose to focus on the positive likelihood. :)
Jared Cook. The guy the Packers let go because $3 mil/year was too much. Bad decision. But now, 5 years or so later, he's past his prime. Just never should have let him go.
 

tynimiller

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Jared Cook. The guy the Packers let go because $3 mil/year was too much. Bad decision. But now, 5 years or so later, he's past his prime. Just never should have let him go.

You don't sign him expecting him to be in his prime. He is still a 500 yard producer that can handle 500+ snaps, as he proved as recent as last year active and playing in 16 games.
 

Heyjoe4

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You don't sign him expecting him to be in his prime. He is still a 500 yard producer that can handle 500+ snaps, as he proved as recent as last year active and playing in 16 games.
If he can still put up 500 yards and 3-5 TDs in a season, sign him!
 

captainWIMM

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I didn't imply that Tonyan wouldn't heal like Bakhtiari, only that the Packers would be even more cautious than usual.

I don't believe Bakhtiari suffering several setbacks will change the Packers' approach with Tonyan.

I know a lot of people are worried about our TE group, and to be fair I would put it in our top 3 weakest or 'most unknown' position groups we have.

I might be fine with the team's tight end group if the wide receiving corps wouldn't be a huge question mark entering the season as well.

Taking a look at both positions there's definitely reason to be worried about the pass catchers entering the season though.
 

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