This is disturbing

[GleefulGary]

"tried" like when they tried to a lowball offer to Jordy? I mean i "tried" to be a millionaire but i didn't pick the right numbers last week. Its pay to play in right now, and they need to pony up cash for talent. The Jimmy Graham signing was the last big name chance and i think (and i may be alone in this) that was a ridiculous contract for a aging once great star that had been lack luster since leaving the saints.

I do think you're right though, just wait and see what unfolds. There's still a lot of time before the season starts so maybe more moves are on the board waiting to be made.

What cash?

They weren't working with a ton of cap space buddy.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Yes.

Ted Thompson was unquestionably a great GM.

You don't back in to a Super Bowl. C'mon.

Aaron Rodgers could've qualified for Marine Sniper school with the accuracy he exhibited from around week 12 of the 2010 season through the 2011 season. You didn't need much else...and yes if you have to win 4 playoff games all away from home you did back in to a superbowl.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

What cash?

They weren't working with a ton of cap space buddy.

Well friend since this problem goes back beyond last year i would have thought they could have tried in 2016,2017,2018,2019...maybe in the draft....to pick up talent. there was cap space available.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

Yup and not having a clear WR2 has only been an issue in Green Bay post-Cobb era or the 2019 season and potentially this one if no one steps up.

a little more than the "post Cobb era" or 2019 i think though. Injuries killed us and lack of depth. We were using Jeff Janis, Jared Abbrederis, Richard Rodgers at one point. That was in the back end of 2015! I loved Cobb but he was hurt down the stretch and we answer by going out and signing Graham a few years later? Either way i think its agree to disagree at this point.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I just saw this tweet from SEC contributor Cole Cubelic, and if true this is disturbing, unconscionable, disprespectful and unprofessional of Ted Thompson mostly but Brian Gutekunst as well

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And the relevance is? To make this complete, you’d need to add TD passes to all WRs drafted, by round. All TDs are 6 points so it matters not to me as much as the total TD passes in a year, something #12 is pretty good at.

I’m not dissing your analysis, it’s interesting. IMO, it’s just not complete.

 

[tynimiller]

a little more than the "post Cobb era" or 2019 i think though. Injuries killed us and lack of depth. We were using Jeff Janis, Jared Abbrederis, Richard Rodgers at one point. That was in the back end of 2015! I loved Cobb but he was hurt down the stretch and we answer by going out and signing Graham a few years later? Either way i think its agree to disagree at this point.

Sorry but injuries are snake bites one cannot use to argue for or against something IMO.

Besides the discussion was simply having a for sure WR2 and Cobb for sure was that easily. I still feel to this day the year GMo and MVS popped onto the scene and showed awesome potential (I mean MVS his rookie year shined) caused us to let Cobb walk due to the money being too salty and we thought we had too much promise behind them...so that failed last year, by anyone's metric.

Enter 2020 season. Most feel Gute and Co should have added a WR this draft....but many completely disregard the fact that at least this year GUTE has done something/anything for the WR room. 2019 draft he did nothing...free agency he did nothing...

This year at least thankful he did something, I concur it may not be enough and it is less than I would like but he went out and signed arguably the best WR in the entire CFL Reggie Begelton...easily the same as drafting a Day 3 WR. Also he goes out and gets Devin Funchess, easily the equivalent of a Day 2 pick.

While most, if not all would agree they'd have done or they'd have liked a WR in the draft...the fact is this off season Gute has brought in two...one that could for sure be our WR2 and another that for sure will battle for WR4 or WR5 in the minds of many.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Rodgers started his career with a great cast of receivers. While there weren't any first round picks, there were enough second round picks to stock the cubbard. The problem is that there hasn't been nearly enough investment in the position to offset the inevitable attrition in the last decade. Once Jordy tore his knee and TT let Cook go, the talent level has dropped off the cliff because there was no plan or effort to replace them. That shows incompetence by the GM's. The same lack of planning has also decimated the d line. Once Daniels was regressing, it should never have come to a sudden cutting with no viable replacement.

 

[easyk83]

Aaron Rodgers could've qualified for Marine Sniper school with the accuracy he exhibited from around week 12 of the 2010 season through the 2011 season. You didn't need much else...and yes if you have to win 4 playoff games all away from home you did back in to a superbowl.

Ummm and who drafted Aaron Rodgers? It doesnt matter how accurate you are if the guys cant catch and there can be no doubt that guys like Jennings Driver and Nelson were putting in work down the stretch in 2010 and through the 2011 season.

 

[easyk83]

Ted Thompson a great GM?.... He had a team that backed into a Super Bowl after losing the division ONLY because somebody (can recall who) missed a fairly routine FG to let them squeak into the playoffs. Great run, great story.... but if a 40 yard FG gets made ... TT never achieves ANYthing and Rodgers is a poor man’s Dan Marino. Nothing against the player because he probably did the best he could... but Hot Tub Harrell?..... guy SKIPS his senior season.... SKIPS the combine (physically unable to perform) and Ted Thompson steps up “yeah.... I’ll take that dude”... I think Rodgers started reading his own press clippings several years ago, has (always had) a sense of entitlement, and his performance has obviously declined over the years. To think the Packers should sit back and R-E-L-A-X on the assumption the Rodgers is going to perform “at a high level” into his 40’s is laughable. He hasn’t performed at a high level for 4-5 years.

You seem to be confused, he built a team that "backed into" the Super Bowl after losing the division... after losing Jerimichael Finley who was on pace to catch more than 60 passes and put up more than 900 yards when he was injured in week 5. After losing three LBs, our starting strong safety, oh and a guy who had back to back 1200 yard rushing seasons in the two years prior. The guy who eventually did give the team at least a credible rushing threat, James Starks, started the year on the PUP and wasn't ready to go until the playoffs. Most teams wouldnt have made a the playoffs with the sort of attrition the Packers took that year and when they did get the Super Bowl. They dominated the first half until they lost Driver Woodson and Shields to injury, until the later two went down Pit's offense was ineffective. That, Cheese, is a well built team.

Of course some of the injuries may have helped, Desmond Bishop was much more disruptive than either Nick Barnett or Brandon Chillar although both players were better in pass coverage. Morgan Burnett going down forced Capers to play a lot of single high safety, which seemed to take the defense to a new level. Burnett coming back the next season allowed Capers to go back to his preferred alignments and the defense seemed to have taken a leap backward through the first two games until Collins went down and from their the unit never recovered. That being said that team went into the season with a hell of a lot of talent. That team had so much talent that Charlie freaking Peprah was a starting safety on a unit that still managed to be the best in the league. Charles Woodson coming off a DPOY, Williams played at an All-Pro level, Sam Shields a future pro bowler was number three, and three time All Pro Nick Collins, with back to back to back selections, was at Free Safety.

 

[GleefulGary]

Ted Thompson backed into drafting Rodgers (even with the coaching staff begging him not to), and backed into building a SB winning team.

What a lucky guy he is.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Rodgers started his career with a great cast of receivers. While there weren't any first round picks, there were enough second round picks to stock the cubbard. The problem is that there hasn't been nearly enough investment in the position to offset the inevitable attrition in the last decade. Once Jordy tore his knee and TT let Cook go, the talent level has dropped off the cliff because there was no plan or effort to replace them. That shows incompetence by the GM's. The same lack of planning has also decimated the d line. Once Daniels was regressing, it should never have come to a sudden cutting with no viable replacement.

Well there were two failed attempts to address TE, Marcellus Bennett and Jimmy Graham. Both of them failed to deliver. But once it was clear Jordy was never going to be Jordy again after the ACL injury, WR should have been a priority. If my memory is right, the only meaningful attempt to address that was taking Moore, MVS, and ESB - all 4th round or lower. The jury is still out on MVS and ESB and Moore was a disaster.

I know Gluten tried to get a WR in the draft, but think he could’ve gotten someone if he really wanted to. That said, rookie WRs, even first rounders, rarely produce more than 500 yards their first year (I read that somewhere but don’t have the source, or maybe I read it here).

So we play the cards we’ve been dealt (or picked). I don’t feel very good about the upcoming season (assuming there is one), but am more than willing to be proven wrong.

 

[easyk83]

I kind of wonder what Gute would have done if Aiyuk was still on the board at 25 or 26. Its possible that Gute would have traded up to get him and everyone would be singing Gute's praises.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I kind of wonder what Gute would have done if Aiyuk was still on the board at 25 or 26. Its possible that Gute would have traded up to get him and everyone would be singing Gute's praises.

Well, I would have been happy with Aiyuk, happier yet with ILB Queen. But is seems Gluten had his mind made up well before draft day that he was going to take Love if he could make it work.

So we’re going to have to wait a few years before we, hopefully, sing his praises on taking Love. That’s always the nature of the draft, early grades are pretty much meaningless. But this is a long bet, for sure.

One way for Gluten to take some pressure off himself is th get Love ready ASAP. That would mean a lot of snaps in camp and the pre-season, and even subbing for Rodgers if he gets hurt.

 

[RepStar15]

This time of year is always fun to evaluate the draft. I find it absolutely hilarious how anyone could sit here and say the Packers are worse right now than they were in 2019. The only loss that will be felt is POTENTIALLY Bryan Bulaga. I do not know if Ricky Wagner will be able to come right in and take over. I simply just do not know. Christian Kirksey and Kamal Martin > or = to Goodson and Martinez. Me (5'3 150lbs) is an upgrade to Jimmy Graham at TE. AJ Dillion will CHANGE the backfield. The backfield went from having a top 10 RB and a mediocre #2, to potentially two top 10 RBs and a mediocre #3.

The interior oline has depth. Certainly did not get any worse.
The WR corp is adding EQ and Devin Funchess > GMO.
Nickle CB is a downgrade because I do not know enough about Hollman to consider him an upgrade to Williams.
I had high expectations for Vitale coming out of camp, and he was a let down. Will Josiah Degura be an upgrade? Do not know the answer to that.

 

[elcid]

This time of year is always fun to evaluate the draft. I find it absolutely hilarious how anyone could sit here and say the Packers are worse right now than they were in 2019. The only loss that will be felt is POTENTIALLY Bryan Bulaga. I do not know if Ricky Wagner will be able to come right in and take over. I simply just do not know. Christian Kirksey and Kamal Martin > or = to Goodson and Martinez. Me (5'3 150lbs) is an upgrade to Jimmy Graham at TE. AJ Dillion will CHANGE the backfield. The backfield went from having a top 10 RB and a mediocre #2, to potentially two top 10 RBs and a mediocre #3.

The interior oline has depth. Certainly did not get any worse.
The WR corp is adding EQ and Devin Funchess > GMO.
Nickle CB is a downgrade because I do not know enough about Hollman to consider him an upgrade to Williams.
I had high expectations for Vitale coming out of camp, and he was a let down. Will Josiah Degura be an upgrade? Do not know the answer to that.

You can argue that we became better, but it's not a very stable assumption to make. Wagner is most definitely worse than Bulaga. Kirksey could definitely be worse than Martinez, even if he is healthy for most of the season (which also is a big if). Furthermore I think it is a very fast conclusion to make that Martin will be better than Goodson, we simply do not know. And Dillon was around the 4th ranked RB in the draft, chances are slim he will be a top 10 RB anytime soon. POTENTIALLY sure, but I highly doubt it. Let's see if he can beat out Williams first.

So sure, POTENTIALLY we are better. But more likely we stayed the status quo when we could have surrounded Aaron with weapons and added 1 or 2 pieces on Defense. Last year was probably the first time since the SB run that we had a complete team. Not extremely good, but COMPLETE. We had some holes, but overall depth and starters were good at a lot of levels. Even at the positions we were lacking we had some significant names in Adams, Clark and Martinez. Why hand Aaron one of the biggest contracts in football if you are not willing to surround him with the pieces needed to fully maximize his potential and hence his contract?

 

[easyk83]

Well, I would have been happy with Aiyuk, happier yet with ILB Queen. But is seems Gluten had his mind made up well before draft day that he was going to take Love if he could make it work.

So we’re going to have to wait a few years before we, hopefully, sing his praises on taking Love. That’s always the nature of the draft, early grades are pretty much meaningless. But this is a long bet, for sure.

One way for Gluten to take some pressure off himself is th get Love ready ASAP. That would mean a lot of snaps in camp and the pre-season, and even subbing for Rodgers if he gets hurt.

IMO the development timeline should be gradual, Love has boatloads of talent but hes probably more raw than Rodgers was at that time in his career. You can't microwave a goose it has to be cooked slowly and gradually.

 

[easyk83]

This time of year is always fun to evaluate the draft. I find it absolutely hilarious how anyone could sit here and say the Packers are worse right now than they were in 2019. The only loss that will be felt is POTENTIALLY Bryan Bulaga. I do not know if Ricky Wagner will be able to come right in and take over. I simply just do not know. Christian Kirksey and Kamal Martin > or = to Goodson and Martinez. Me (5'3 150lbs) is an upgrade to Jimmy Graham at TE. AJ Dillion will CHANGE the backfield. The backfield went from having a top 10 RB and a mediocre #2, to potentially two top 10 RBs and a mediocre #3.

The interior oline has depth. Certainly did not get any worse.
The WR corp is adding EQ and Devin Funchess > GMO.
Nickle CB is a downgrade because I do not know enough about Hollman to consider him an upgrade to Williams.
I had high expectations for Vitale coming out of camp, and he was a let down. Will Josiah Degura be an upgrade? Do not know the answer to that.

Williams is a solid second offering but no one is going to be scared of him as a number 1. That being said Dillon and Jones are both players who can change a game and do so in complimentary ways. Dillon looks like a player that you have to take seriously as a DC, you cannot let a 250 pound man who runs like that get through the LoS untouched. Ive been a broken record on this but Aaron prefers a spread offense with a single, we'll leave empty set alone in this post, but with a back like Dillon defenses pretty much have to keep their DEs bunched in at 5 tech which should translate into more throwing time for Rodgers.

Defensively I think the maturation of King and Alexander should improve the defense, BUT the guy ive always been most excited about is Savage. If he takes a healthy step forward and turns into that deep center fielder for us it'll allow us to shrink the field for our ILBs and make almost anyone who plays there better. Call it the Ed Reed/Nick Collins effect when you can play your strong safety up in the box to challenge routes in the middle of the field and key on the rush more effectively.

 

[easyk83]

I’m not one of the mindless babbling morons (at least I don’t think ) that take jabs just for the hell of it. I’ve more than acknowledged that Thompson was a great GM for far longer than he was a mediocre one and that for much of Rodgers career, he’s had weapons around him.

Thompson's biggest weakness was his commitment to an approach. I bring in the talent and the HC determines both how to run the team and what to do with that talent. It worked at brilliantly for about 5 years with an super bowl run in 2007, the successful replacement of Favre in year 4 and a super bowl win in year 6. The downstroke came when Capers began to install more and more of his defense starting 2011, the result was a unit that not only couldnt be run effectively and consistently but also flat out failed to develop the talent given to it. MM stuck with Capers through years of average at best unit production(with a tendency to go haywire in big moments), which demanded that the lion share of draft capital would be spent on the Defense, some of the better selections wound up playing better elsewhere(Hyde, Hayward, heck even Randall looked like a player in Cle until his behavioral issues cropped up again). Had Capers pulled MM aside after the SF meltdown in 2012 and said that Capers needed to go after that rout of a loss to SF it's possible that we would have won a second Super Bowl by now.

If you look at our defensive heavy drafts from 13 on wards, yes we made "bad selections" on Defense. But for some strange reason our limited offensive selections had a very high hit rate. David Bakhtiari, Corey Linsley, JC Tretter, Davante Adams, Lacy was a good back for us until he put on too much weight, and Aaron Jones jump out immediately. So if talent develops effectively in one unit but not the other, is it that scouting is better at selecting offensive talent for some strange reason even while doing so at every position group in the offense or is it that you have a critical unit failure starting with the Defensive coaching staff?

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

You seem to be confused, he built a team that "backed into" the Super Bowl after losing the division... after losing Jerimichael Finley who was on pace to catch more than 60 passes and put up more than 900 yards when he was injured in week 5. After losing three LBs, our starting strong safety, oh and a guy who had back to back 1200 yard rushing seasons in the two years prior. The guy who eventually did give the team at least a credible rushing threat, James Starks, started the year on the PUP and wasn't ready to go until the playoffs. Most teams wouldnt have made a the playoffs with the sort of attrition the Packers took that year and when they did get the Super Bowl. They dominated the first half until they lost Driver Woodson and Shields to injury, until the later two went down Pit's offense was ineffective. That, Cheese, is a well built team.

Of course some of the injuries may have helped, Desmond Bishop was much more disruptive than either Nick Barnett or Brandon Chillar although both players were better in pass coverage. Morgan Burnett going down forced Capers to play a lot of single high safety, which seemed to take the defense to a new level. Burnett coming back the next season allowed Capers to go back to his preferred alignments and the defense seemed to have taken a leap backward through the first two games until Collins went down and from their the unit never recovered. That being said that team went into the season with a hell of a lot of talent. That team had so much talent that Charlie freaking Peprah was a starting safety on a unit that still managed to be the best in the league. Charles Woodson coming off a DPOY, Williams played at an All-Pro level, Sam Shields a future pro bowler was number three, and three time All Pro Nick Collins, with back to back to back selections, was at Free Safety.

3 Linebackers? We were 9 deep at the opposite OLB position from Clay. We had a defense where NO ONE played every snap...and only had 1 player who didn't miss time due to injury. (I seem to remember Hawk being benched against the Eagles for some reason)

 

[Heyjoe4]

IMO the development timeline should be gradual, Love has boatloads of talent but hes probably more raw than Rodgers was at that time in his career. You can't microwave a goose it has to be cooked slowly and gradually.

Yeah that’s a good point. There’s little downside to playing him in the PS. As you say, he isn’t as ready as Rodgers was.

 

[Soothsayertoday]

Ted's 1s were the always impressive Justin Harrell, Damarius Randall, Haha Clinton-Dix, Derek Sherrod, I could also add Nick Perry and Datone Jones to this wonderfully impressive list but won't.

I agree Ric and now you can add Gute’s #2’s to the list.

 

[Michael J DuCharme]

It’s funny, every adjective used by the OP could be directed right back at OP and this thread lol

You're right. I mean so what?

 

[Michael J DuCharme]

You're right. I think the proper response is "so what?"

 

[Michael J DuCharme]

I just saw this tweet from SEC contributor Cole Cubelic, and if true this is disturbing, unconscionable, disprespectful and unprofessional of Ted Thompson mostly but Brian Gutekunst as well

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Cheating is unconscionable, gouging your fans is disturbing, this is just business. All it means is the GBP don't draft or trade for First Round WRs.

I'm real new here, do we get a lot of trolls?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree Ric and now you can add Gute’s #2’s to the list.

Yikes what a list of total busts or near busts. When we wonder why there haven’t been more SBs with #12 under center, it seems you have to consider some of this really bad drafting. If half of these guys turned out to be true #1s (impact players), we’d have at least one more Lombardi trophy. Just my opinion.

Anyway, thank you for putting the list together, dreary as it is.......