This is disturbing

[tynimiller]

Built the Seahawks into a Super Bowl team, took over an old and strapped Packers team and put them in position to play for super bowls with Favre again, but he got old and cold and ended our chances with an INT again.

Then built another super bowl worth team, that did win one. Dealt with some more roster changes and built another team for a run with 2014 being probably the peak and saw '15 and '16 suffer because of injuries to a lot of guys, but without going thru that

Seattle and GB 3 different times poised to play for and win super bowls. Obviously, the guys a bum LOL

Clearly Ted is a bump, because Jordan Love. duh.... LOL

 

[TexasCheesehead]

It's a good thing to be a contrarian in posts by certain people. Simple question, do you think it's fair to imply Rodgers hasn't had ample passing targets for the vast majority of his career, or not?

i think its fair to imply the packers have not invested in a true offensive prospect to give the HOF quarterback a weapon. Can you name one 1st round offensive player drafted besides 2010 Buluga 2011 Sherrod....now here we are in the last part of his career and in desperate need of offensive help and they do not draft anyone. The mediocre Dom Capers doomed them for years, new coach new staff and now we have 1 wide receiver and a defense that cant stop the run....so we trade up and draft a backup QB, then draft a RB in case we cant afford Jones and a TE....this was a LOADED wide receiver draft and the packers didnt get any until they signed undrafted Darrell Stewart. there is a reason the packers ranked as the worst draft of 2020. That all being said no i dont believe they gave him ample weapons since 2015. loaded with injuries, playing 4th and 5th string wideouts to fill gaps..then the Jimmy Graham debacle while letting people walk..great they gave him weapons 7 years ago...but its 2020 and for the last 5 years we've been depleted.

 

[Mondio]

i think its fair to imply the packers have not invested in a true offensive prospect to give the HOF quarterback a weapon. Can you name one 1st round offensive player drafted besides 2010 Buluga 2011 Sherrod....now here we are in the last part of his career and in desperate need of offensive help and they do not draft anyone. The mediocre Dom Capers doomed them for years, new coach new staff and now we have 1 wide receiver and a defense that cant stop the run....so we trade up and draft a backup QB, then draft a RB in case we cant afford Jones and a TE....this was a LOADED wide receiver draft and the packers didnt get any until they signed undrafted Darrell Stewart. there is a reason the packers ranked as the worst draft of 2020. That all being said no i dont believe they gave him ample weapons since 2015. loaded with injuries, playing 4th and 5th string wideouts to fill gaps..then the Jimmy Graham debacle while letting people walk..great they gave him weapons 7 years ago...but its 2020 and for the last 5 years we've been depleted.

I don't care when they were drafted. I really don't, because after the draft, it doesn't matter.

We've had much better than average offensive lines for his entire career. We've had mostly adequate RB's and have been excellent from the pass catching standpoint. My goodness, we were going 5 wide for a couple years. There isn't a team in the league that could do that regularly since. To suggest we didn't have good offensive players is silly. So they weren't 1st rounders, so what. You find good guys where you find them, and there have been plenty on offense over the years.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

I don't care when they were drafted. I really don't, because after the draft, it doesn't matter.

We've had much better than average offensive lines for his entire career. We've had mostly adequate RB's and have been excellent from the pass catching standpoint. My goodness, we were going 5 wide for a couple years. There isn't a team in the league that could do that regularly since. To suggest we didn't have good offensive players is silly. So they weren't 1st rounders, so what. You find good guys where you find them, and there have been plenty on offense over the years.

i mean i agree with you to an extent, i really do....
Its just we've always been on the edge of a superbowl with that game plan and with the group we had (5years ago). the point is they never tried to get a guy through free agency or draft to compliment the team to push them over the edge. Pair Adams with a breakout star, thats the packers we want. Instead we've went D every year and it wasnt until we signed some free agents FINALLY that it started to come together. Now we are weak at WR and ILB and we wiff on the draft. Are we any better right now than after the butt whooping in the NFC championship game? i dont see it.

 

[tynimiller]

the point is they never tried to get a guy through free agency or draft to compliment the team to push them over the edge.

^^This, directly disagrees with this below:

Instead we've went D every year and it wasnt until we signed some free agents FINALLY that it started to come together.

The issue isn't that Green Bay has done nothing, they've merely done nothing (or close to it) at a position folks desired they do something in.

Also can everyone stop pretending that Green Bay hasn't given Aaron weapons....I mean up until very recently Green Bay has CONSTANTLY been blessed with 2 SOLID wide outs...often times we were 3 or 4 deep in most of Aaron's career. The present issue has not been the normalcy some are claiming. The release of Cobb was the first point we didn't have a true contingency plan which was proven behind him to be the true #2 WR...which let me remind everyone was JUST LAST YEAR.

I'm right there with everyone having wanted a WR in the draft...but honestly by the time number 94 rolled around I didn't like any prospect to be a walk in #2 we needed and looked to other positions (no I didn't look at Deguara there...but do like Deguara).

 

[Mondio]

i mean i agree with you to an extent, i really do....
Its just we've always been on the edge of a superbowl with that game plan and with the group we had (5years ago). the point is they never tried to get a guy through free agency or draft to compliment the team to push them over the edge. Pair Adams with a breakout star, thats the packers we want. Instead we've went D every year and it wasnt until we signed some free agents FINALLY that it started to come together. Now we are weak at WR and ILB and we wiff on the draft. Are we any better right now than after the butt whooping in the NFC championship game? i dont see it.

all another conversation for me.

my responses here are concerning the OP, to suggest Rodgers hasn't had plenty of offensive weaponry for almost his entire career has to be one of the craziest assertions of read on here, and i've seen some doozies

 

[TexasCheesehead]

^^This, directly disagrees with this below:

that would be after years of waiting. sorry i excluded the miracle signing that actually went for defensive players after wasting years of 1st round picks. point being they made a move to solidify the D next step would be a WR and ILB in the draft, at least i would think that would be a smart move.

I'm right there with everyone having wanted a WR in the draft...but honestly by the time number 94 rolled around I didn't like any prospect to be a walk in #2 we needed and looked to other positions (no I didn't look at Deguara there...but do like Deguara).

so point being we traded up to losing our 4th round and waiting to #94...bet we could have had a good WR in the 26th spot though...maybe even 62.

just frustrating and i hope for the best but it is what it is at this point.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

all another conversation for me.

my responses here are concerning the OP, to suggest Rodgers hasn't had plenty of offensive weaponry for almost his entire career has to be one of the craziest assertions of read on here, and i've seen some doozies

true...i went a little off topic..my appologies....but most of his career vs last 5 years, my honest opinion is he had great talent until 2014/2015 then age, injuries, free agency took its toll. I'll just say loaded 60% of his career and lacking for the last 40%

 

[Mondio]

2015 still had Jordy, Cobb, young Adams. That is plenty when it comes to weapons. Jordy got hurt, but that happens. The next year he was still almost 100 catches, 10+ TD's and a crap load of yards again and with a younger Cobb and emerging Adams. Then he was hurt at a very fast start with those same WR's. and then he still had Cobb and Adams, 2 very good WR's. Outside of last year, we had plenty of passing targets. Maybe go back to 2018. So 2 years. teams cycle and recycle. But he's had a lot of very good pass catchers. A team doesn't need 5 wides to be a good passing team.

 

[tynimiller]

so point being we traded up to losing our 4th round and waiting to #94...bet we could have had a good WR in the 26th spot though...maybe even 62.

just frustrating and i hope for the best but it is what it is at this point.

At #62 I had only one potential walk in WR2 and it was Bryan Edwards

At 26 and 30 of course there were some. I thought when we traded up it was Pittman or Mims or Queen honestly. However, once we got to our 62 pick I knew if Gute didn't like Edwards it was gonna be 5th round or later on a potential WR3 or WR4 caliber guy.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

2015 still had Jordy, Cobb, young Adams. That is plenty when it comes to weapons. Jordy got hurt, but that happens. The next year he was still almost 100 catches, 10+ TD's and a crap load of yards again and with a younger Cobb and emerging Adams. Then he was hurt at a very fast start with those same WR's. and then he still had Cobb and Adams, 2 very good WR's. Outside of last year, we had plenty of passing targets. Maybe go back to 2018. So 2 years. teams cycle and recycle. But he's had a lot of very good pass catchers. A team doesn't need 5 wides to be a good passing team.

2015 was injuries i think, 2016 we reach out to james jones to fill gaps...either way i see your point as well but i think having talent is one thing, but need to be healthy which we were not. You're right a team doesn't need 5 WR to be a good passing team, but id settle for 2 at this point lol, Adams cant do it all himself!

 

[tynimiller]

2015 was injuries i think, 2016 we reach out to james jones to fill gaps...either way i see your point as well but i think having talent is one thing, but need to be healthy which we were not. You're right a team doesn't need 5 WR to be a good passing team, but id settle for 2 at this point lol, Adams cant do it all himself!

Yup and not having a clear WR2 has only been an issue in Green Bay post-Cobb era or the 2019 season and potentially this one if no one steps up.

 

[PackAttack12]

Let's do another exercise for fun.

Forget about just the 1st round selections, or lack thereof.

Even Ted Thompson, who people like to bang on, took a WR in the 2nd round every 3rd year in the Rodgers era. Took Nelson in 2008, Cobb in 2011, Adams in 2014. He at least felt the need to keep position group strong with at the least a 2nd round investment in three year increments. That ran out in his last draft though (2017). Though after 2016's embarrassing defensive performance in the championship game, and given that Nelson, Cobb, Davante all returned, it was a reasonable decision.

And to Thompson's credit, he nailed all three draft picks. We can argue how much of that credit pie should be split between McCarthy's system, Rodgers and his ability to operate it, and Thompson identifying the talent. Regardless though, all three worked out.

Since 2014, we've invested a third, a fourth, (3)fifths, a sixth, and a seventh rounder. These names include Ty Montgomery, J'Mon Moore, DeAngelo Yancy, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Trevor Davis, Equanimeous St. Brown, and Malachi Dupre (in order of round taken). Five of these guys are not on the team anymore.

Though there have been some later round standouts in recent years, the odds aren't great when you take wide receivers in later rounds. Of course you could say the same for just about all position groups. The fact that Gute has failed to select even one receiver in the rounds 1 thru 3 in three drafts now, to me, is an inexcusable form of neglect.

That's why it drives me insane when some either fail to acknowledge, or brush to the side, the fact that the cupboard is more bare at wide receiver now than at any other time in the Rodgers era. A lot of that has to do with the failure to commit a legitimate resource or two to make sure that didn't happen.

Again. I really like Brian Gutekunst. What he's been able to do in a short amount of time is commendable, and he deserves credit for that. But the Packers bread is buttered by making sure that Aaron Rodgers has the resources needed to make the passing game elite.

Rodgers isn't quite the same player as he once was. Though the drop-off isn't as dramatic as some like to argue. But as he ages, he's only going to continue a slight regression. Just like any other quarterback past their prime years.

So now, more than ever, it's important to make sure that he has weapons. Instead, he has the worst group of WR's since he's been the starter. I just cannot support that level of logic. And investing a 1st and a 4th in Love just makes it all that much worse.

 

[AmishMafia]

Are you always the contrarian in posts Amish? Seems like every times Im lurking through posts you tend to be that guy.

Yes.

( please note I just agreed with you. Not contrary. So No.)


Looking at myself, I don't like animosity. Especially when it originates from ignorance and is directed at the innocent. I point out the absurdity of a position with sarcasm. It just seems appropriate to use the lowest form of wit to an unarmed opponent.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

2015 still had Jordy, Cobb, young Adams. That is plenty when it comes to weapons. Jordy got hurt, but that happens. The next year he was still almost 100 catches, 10+ TD's and a crap load of yards again and with a younger Cobb and emerging Adams. Then he was hurt at a very fast start with those same WR's. and then he still had Cobb and Adams, 2 very good WR's. Outside of last year, we had plenty of passing targets. Maybe go back to 2018. So 2 years. teams cycle and recycle. But he's had a lot of very good pass catchers. A team doesn't need 5 wides to be a good passing team.

 

[Mondio]

Let's do another exercise for fun.

Forget about just the 1st round selections, or lack thereof.

Even Ted Thompson, who people like to bang on, took a WR in the 2nd round every 3rd year in the Rodgers era. Took Nelson in 2008, Cobb in 2011, Adams in 2014. He at least felt the need to keep position group strong with at the least a 2nd round investment in three year increments. That ran out in his last draft though (2017). Though after 2016's embarrassing defensive performance in the championship game, and given that Nelson, Cobb, Davante all returned, it was a reasonable decision.

And to Thompson's credit, he nailed all three draft picks. We can argue how much of that credit pie should be split between McCarthy's system, Rodgers and his ability to operate it, and Thompson identifying the talent. Regardless though, all three worked out.

Since 2014, we've invested a third, a fourth, (3)fifths, a sixth, and a seventh rounder. These names include Ty Montgomery, J'Mon Moore, DeAngelo Yancy, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Trevor Davis, Equanimeous St. Brown, and Malachi Dupre (in order of round taken). Five of these guys are not on the team anymore.

Though there have been some later round standouts in recent years, the odds aren't great when you take wide receivers in later rounds. Of course you could say the same for just about all position groups. The fact that Gute has failed to select even one receiver in the rounds 1 thru 3 in three drafts now, to me, is an inexcusable form of neglect.

That's why it drives me insane when some either fail to acknowledge, or brush to the side, the fact that the cupboard is more bare at wide receiver now than at any other time in the Rodgers era. A lot of that has to do with the failure to commit a legitimate resource or two to make sure that didn't happen.

Again. I really like Brian Gutekunst. What he's been able to do in a short amount of time is commendable, and he deserves credit for that. But the Packers bread is buttered by making sure that Aaron Rodgers has the resources needed to make the passing game elite.

Rodgers isn't quite the same player as he once was. Though the drop-off isn't as dramatic as some like to argue. But as he ages, he's only going to continue a slight regression. Just like any other quarterback past their prime years.

So now, more than ever, it's important to make sure that he has weapons. Instead, he has the worst group of WR's since he's been the starter. I just cannot support that level of logic. And investing a 1st and a 4th in Love just makes it all that much worse.

I agree with much, but not necessarily the latter part. I am in agreement that this is one of the poorer WR groups he's had in comparison to what he's had. I think it's going to be better than last year, or at the very worst, a "push" from last year. While that may not get us excited, there are ways to help a QB and the passing game and I think it's obvious there has been a shift in "how" they're going to approach things.

I think the look will definitely be different, i'm not sure it will be worse because we're not strong 3 deep at WR. I think a shift is inevitable as a QB ages, even though I think Rodgers is as smart and physically capable as pretty much anyone, his strength to move around in a pocket are still pretty good. SLides from pressure and moves to help his blockers very well. I think his escapability in terms of running for big plays has gone down some, enough that it's not quite the strength it used to be. Having a very strong run game, or being consistent out of certain looks will help hold certain parts of a defense back and help our QB in the short term outlook of a certain play, and in the long term outlook of the physical toll this game could take on him by lessening it.

and I do think there are going to be more than a couple legit passing targets that will be available thru trade or just a plain old cut. I don't think we need a super star, we need a reliable route runner with reliable hands and it helps this offense tremendously.

I'd agree we didn't get him passing target help in the draft that's obvious. I do think we helped him in terms of playing QB though, as long as what appears to be the plan works out.

 

[PackAttack12]

I agree with much, but not necessarily the latter part. I am in agreement that this is one of the poorer WR groups he's had in comparison to what he's had. I think it's going to be better than last year, or at the very worst, a "push" from last year. While that may not get us excited, there are ways to help a QB and the passing game and I think it's obvious there has been a shift in "how" they're going to approach things.

I think the look will definitely be different, i'm not sure it will be worse because we're not strong 3 deep at WR. I think a shift is inevitable as a QB ages, even though I think Rodgers is as smart and physically capable as pretty much anyone, his strength to move around in a pocket are still pretty good. SLides from pressure and moves to help his blockers very well. I think his escapability in terms of running for big plays has gone down some, enough that it's not quite the strength it used to be. Having a very strong run game, or being consistent out of certain looks will help hold certain parts of a defense back and help our QB in the short term outlook of a certain play, and in the long term outlook of the physical toll this game could take on him by lessening it.

and I do think there are going to be more than a couple legit passing targets that will be available thru trade or just a plain old cut. I don't think we need a super star, we need a reliable route runner with reliable hands and it helps this offense tremendously.

I'd agree we didn't get him passing target help in the draft that's obvious. I do think we helped him in terms of playing QB though, as long as what appears to be the plan works out.

I'm good with making sure the running game is more potent. Not going to pretend as if that doesn't help the quarterback, especially an aging quarterback. What also helps the quarterback though is having reliable pass catchers that can, to your point, separate, run precise routes, and make big catches especially in late game, clutch situations.

Throws like the one to Davante late against Seattle in the divisional round come to mind. We need to have another player that can make big plays like that. I'm not insinuating that we need another Davante Adams, because he's arguably top 5 in the NFL. But we need receivers that can make plays.

I hope that Gute does have a plan to address it a little more thoroughly before the beginning of the season. Because as of the present, it appears like he's counting on an UDFA's, along with a 5th and 6th round pick. I liked the Funchess signing, but there are zero guarantees there with him being out an entire season.

If it booms, it'll be great for the offense. I just don't like relying upon that.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

Yes.

( please note I just agreed with you. Not contrary. So No.)


Looking at myself, I don't like animosity. Especially when it originates from ignorance and is directed at the innocent. I point out the absurdity of a position with sarcasm. It just seems appropriate to use the lowest form of wit to an unarmed opponent.

its absurd to point out the packers haven't tried to restock the aging/injury plagued WR core with any top level talent since Davante Adams? The start of the thread just shows that Green Bay hasn't invested in a #2 or brought any free agents in to supplement the roster. As far as a player being bigger than the team, well i wouldnt say Rodgers thinks hes bigger than the packers but he carried this offense for years and without him i cant see them being better than 8-8. So is he bigger than the franchise? I dont know, but i do know hes essential to success and he should have some help given to him.

 

[GleefulGary]

its absurd to point out the packers haven't tried to restock the aging/injury plagued WR core with any top level talent since Davante Adams? The start of the thread just shows that Green Bay hasn't invested in a #2 or brought any free agents in to supplement the roster. As far as a player being bigger than the team, well i wouldnt say Rodgers thinks hes bigger than the packers but he carried this offense for years and without him i cant see them being better than 8-8. So is he bigger than the franchise? I dont know, but i do know hes essential to success and he should have some help given to him.

I wouldn't say they haven't tried.

They tried to trade for Robby Anderson, but didn't want to pay what the Jets wanted.

They tried to bring in Emmanuel Sanders. He wanted to go to New Orleans.

They tried to trade up in the 2nd for a WR. The teams ahead didn't want to.

They are trying, but clearly they have a valuation board that they aren't willing to go over. Personally, I think that's good. At the same time, I desperately want them to find some good WR talent. Clearly it's needed. I guess we'll see how it turns out, but I suspect they'll either trade for somebody before the season or during.

 

[AmishMafia]

its absurd to point out the packers haven't tried to restock the aging/injury plagued WR core with any top level talent since Davante Adams? The start of the thread just shows that Green Bay hasn't invested in a #2 or brought any free agents in to supplement the roster. As far as a player being bigger than the team, well i wouldnt say Rodgers thinks hes bigger than the packers but he carried this offense for years and without him i cant see them being better than 8-8. So is he bigger than the franchise? I dont know, but i do know hes essential to success and he should have some help given to him.

No, I thinks its absurd to call it "disturbing, unconscionable, disprespectful and unprofessional of " the GM.

 

[AmishMafia]

I wouldn't say they haven't tried.

They tried to trade for Robby Anderson, but didn't want to pay what the Jets wanted.

They tried to bring in Emmanuel Sanders. He wanted to go to New Orleans.

They tried to trade up in the 2nd for a WR. The teams ahead didn't want to.

They are trying, but clearly they have a valuation board that they aren't willing to go over. Personally, I think that's good. At the same time, I desperately want them to find some good WR talent. Clearly it's needed. I guess we'll see how it turns out, but I suspect they'll either trade for somebody before the season or during.

We can throw in there Jimmy Graham which Gute made the highest paid TE in the NFL. That shows some commitment to getting some talented targets. May not have worked out, but most thought it was a positive move at the time.

 

[PackAttack12]

I wouldn't say they haven't tried.

They tried to trade for Robby Anderson, but didn't want to pay what the Jets wanted.

They tried to bring in Emmanuel Sanders. He wanted to go to New Orleans.

They tried to trade up in the 2nd for a WR. The teams ahead didn't want to.

Two things

1. Given that they tried to trade for Anderson and Sanders, why now is Gute saying he’s comfortable with what we have after only signing Funchess?

2. Gute said he looked at moving up in the 2nd, but that it would require dealing future picks and he wasn’t willing to do that. Which I agree with, but I don’t think it was a matter of other teams not wanting to deal. Unless there’s a quote I’ve missed.

 

[GleefulGary]

Two things

1. Given that they tried to trade for Anderson and Sanders, why now is Gute saying he’s comfortable with what we have after only signing Funchess?

2. Gute said he looked at moving up in the 2nd, but that it would require dealing future picks and he wasn’t willing to do that. Which I agree with, but I don’t think it was a matter of other teams not wanting to deal. Unless there’s a quote I’ve missed.

What's he supposed to say? "I've got a bunch of schlubs on the team and I have no idea what I'm doing." Don't listen to what they say, listen to what they do/try to do.

The teams didn't want to deal with what GB was offering, Gute didn't want to trade futures, it's all the same thing.

 

[PackAttack12]

The teams didn't want to deal with what GB was offering, Gute didn't want to trade futures, it's all the same thing.

Not sure that I view those as equals, but we could argue semantics all day.

 

[TexasCheesehead]

I wouldn't say they haven't tried.

They tried to trade for Robby Anderson, but didn't want to pay what the Jets wanted.

They tried to bring in Emmanuel Sanders. He wanted to go to New Orleans.

They tried to trade up in the 2nd for a WR. The teams ahead didn't want to.

They are trying, but clearly they have a valuation board that they aren't willing to go over. Personally, I think that's good. At the same time, I desperately want them to find some good WR talent. Clearly it's needed. I guess we'll see how it turns out, but I suspect they'll either trade for somebody before the season or during.

"tried" like when they tried to a lowball offer to Jordy? I mean i "tried" to be a millionaire but i didn't pick the right numbers last week. Its pay to play in right now, and they need to pony up cash for talent. The Jimmy Graham signing was the last big name chance and i think (and i may be alone in this) that was a ridiculous contract for a aging once great star that had been lack luster since leaving the saints.

I do think you're right though, just wait and see what unfolds. There's still a lot of time before the season starts so maybe more moves are on the board waiting to be made.