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The Pretenders of the Midway

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Justanobserver, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    No, it's not a BS kind of saying. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, just like with everything else in life. The lottery is one of them.

    The reason why the Bears are more successful at this specific point in time than the Packers is because they have been prepared for when lucky bounces go their way. For example, they didn't squander opportunities against us when we played them. They didn't commit boneheaded, drive killing penalties. They didn't fumble at the most inopportune times. They didn't miss a field goal.

    We did all of those things, and then some. Sure, we outplayed them on paper, but they capitalized where we did not. They were prepared and when the opportunity presented itself, they capitalized.

    Luck = Preparation meeting Opportunity.

    I agree with you about the reason us being so scary is because we've found a way to win despite getting the un-lucky breaks. We're still in this thing because we've been *forced* to be better. And that makes us scary.

    There's no reason why Green Bay should be weary of facing ANY team this post-season. Other teams should also be weary of facing us. We've played damn good ball when it counts, and I expect we'll continue to do so.
     
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  2. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    I think that sentiment changed, as evidenced by the deep ball to Jordy Nelson, who was knocked out at the NYG's 2 yard line, despite us being up 14 points at the time. In fact, I remember hearing some NYG's fans in the bar calling the Packers classless. I politely reminded them about their previous game vs. the Eagles and pointed out no lead is safe. They promptly shut their holes.
     
  3. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    You can't control luck.
    Luck is a factor always.

    We got lucky in the first game against Minnesota with some close calls that went our way.

    Refs are a factor... there are always a few plays in a game where the call could go either way. We got screwed on all of them in Chicago. We got all of them vs Minny in week 7.

    That's not skill... that is an element of luck. It's out of the coaches and players control. You can't prepare for refs to let the Bears block Hawk in the back on Hester's punt return. You can't prepare for the refs to review and overturn the TD that Shiancoe had against us, and you can't prepare for the refs to give Quarless a TD in that game that he really didn't have.

    Luck is not just an excuse for losers. It's real. And it doesn't always even out either.
     
  4. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Not to mention you can't prepare for the refs to call a non-catch on Megatron (we had a similar call on Woodson bla bla bla), and you can't prepare for Philly's both starting corners not to play the game...

    Luck IS a real factor and is not an excuse.
    But as I said, no bad team wins 11 games.
     
  5. emaugust

    emaugust Cheesehead

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    Hi all - Bears fan here.. interesting thread, a few thoughts...

    1. Most of the discussion here about Urlacher is off base I think - he is almost a complete opposite of a Clay Mathews - he is a sucky blitzer and he is terrible at shedding blocks. What makes Urlacher special is his size and speed - his game in the secondary. Unfortunately for us, once Urlacher retires in a few years, if we don't find another physical freak to play MLB, our cover 2 look is going to implode.

    2. The Bears play a lot of cover 2, but they don't play it more than about 33% of the time. We play a lot of Nickel as well. Anyhow, the point is - and this is a misconception Chicago fans have as well - the Bears aren't in cover 2 every play.

    3. Luck... The Bears are lucky.. I consider it X-Factor. That said, it is what I sort of define as an Institutional luck. We are coached to create turn overs, we run tons of tip drills - all of that scoring defense and turn over generation that is a hallmark of the Bears is drilled very very hard. It is part of the Lovie trip. Obviously, this doesn't have anything to do with all the breaks we caught with 2nd and 3d string QB's, but it helps to explain a lot of the defensive play.

    4. On hating the Vikings... I think both Bears fans and Pack fans hate the Vikings the most because they are just so hatable. I respect the pack. Old timers probably feel different as there was a LOT of dirty, tough, physical play between our club and yours in the 60's-80's. Lots of late hits and injuries and all that.

    5. The Lions game that "the bears stole" or whatever... We don't really care because in 2004, the same thing happened to Bernard Berrian against the Lions. The process of the catch rule was referred to affectionately at the time as the "Berrian Rule". No one really cared cause the Lions and Bears were both just awful that year.

    OK, that's enough out of me. Goodluck this weekend - No injuries.

    Bear Down!
     
  6. narmer2000

    narmer2000 Cheesehead

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    I dont think we'll see 18 penalties like the first matchup. Take away three games Lovies losers have won by poor officiating (Detroit, GB, and NY Jets) they are scrambling for a playoff spot.
     
  7. KilrB

    KilrB Cheesehead

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    There are some good arguments there. Nice post!

    To me it sounds like you agree they are lucky, even though you are trying to discount that. You cannot guarantee a turn over. If that's is what you are coaching, it sounds like throwing the dice to me. Whether your good at it or not.

    It appears to me if the Bears teach anything on defense its how to lead with your helmet and how to hit a guy who is already down before the whistle blows (leading with your helmet of course).
     
  8. Grave

    Grave Cheesehead

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    :chisux:
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    GREAT post man and welcome to the forum!

    No, you forcing fumbles isn't luck. But JJ fumble, in which the ball didn't go out of bounds, THAT is luck, when the ball go out of bounds, when key starters miss the game against the bears due to injuries...

    About the Lions game, it was lucky, but we were lucky in the first game with the Woodson pick 6 (though it's a different situation. There was a lot of game left in our case, in your case the game ended BECAUSE of that).

    About Urlacher... First of all, Matthews is a complete player. He's very good covering. Not as good as Urlacher, but for an 3-4 OLB he's great. He's complete.

    And there's a reason Urlacher is thought amongst the best MLBs of the decade. He's ridiculously good at covering and tackling, he's incredibly instinctive, has ball skills and is assignment sure. IMHO, like you said, his weakness is shedding blockers and causing fumbles, cause he's not an impact hitter like a Ray Lewis. But he's the perfect cover 2 player.

    Regarding your coverage, I think you're wrong. From what I've seen, you play cover 2 70% or so of the time. Of course, it's not all Tampa 2. You do some man, you do some pressure zones, but, most of the time, your safeties are 15 or 20 yards deep, playing zone. It's rare to see you cbs playing singled out deep zone in a cover 3, for instance, or even in singled man, without safety help.

    But you probably know more about them than I do...
     
  10. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    Hey, good post and I agree with this one. The truth is there. I respect Bears fans because they are true and blue. There when you suck and there when you win, almost as true as Packer fans.
    I also respect the institution of Chicago Bears football but not any person associated with it at the moment. Nor any team member. Yep, I laugh when people say the Vikings are the most intense rivalry. Not even close.
    I'm most nervous about the playoffs anticipating the Bears getting booted before we can beat you. I'd so much love to have the Packers kick their blue and orange azzes out.
    Go Pack!
     
  11. emaugust

    emaugust Cheesehead

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    Hey all - thanks for being cool and not chasing me off.

    Just a few short replies:

    @KilrB - Yeah, I do think the Bears have a luck element, but at the same time, how long before it isn't just luck? It is random that the ball stays in bounds... but it is less random that we are the ones who come up with it. I don't know anything about leading with the helmet... that sounds disingenuous - we coach initial tacklers to stand players up and the 2nd/3d/4th tackler to rip the ball.

    @PackersRS - Yeah man, Clay is awesome in your system, no doubt. I am not real smart about the 3-4, does an OLB have many coverage responsibilities? Or is it primarily a Rush/Run gap responsibility? As for the amount of cover 2 we run, I think it probably depends on the matchup as well.

    @DevilDon - You said it - the Bears have more losing seasons than winning seasons this decade, but I guess that is just how it goes. Meanwhile, in the last 10 years, you guys have had only 2 losing seasons and 1 500 season. MUST BE NICE, but actually that is phenomenal. Anyhow, I don't wan't to see you guys in the playoffs, but if that is how it shook out, that would be pretty cool.
     
  12. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    Once again a thread with a bunch of Packers nervous Nellies and fearful Freds. So for the glass is half full side of things. The Packers seem to be just hitting their stride. Against NE they proved that can run outside and screen and slant like crazy. Against NY they proved they have a physical bruiser who can run between the numbers and frequent long threats in the passing game. They are an opposing d coordinator's nightmare.

    The defense showed that if you give the linebackers too much attention one of the big fat guys up front hurts the QB or RB. The defense is on its game now as well.

    The Bears will be playing for pride and the rivalry. The Packers will be playing like it's the playoffs. I'm not worried about this game.
     
  13. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    "I'm not worried about this game."

    Gotta admit, I am. Hester is the X factor.
     
  14. KilrB

    KilrB Cheesehead

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    I am too, but only because Slocum is still running our ST's
     
  15. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    They are who I thought they were!
     
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  16. Murgen

    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    Still, gotta admit, that game was a tad too close for my taste. If Cutler had completed to hester, they would have had 1st and goal with 15 seconds left (can't remember if they had a timeout). But, they did have a shot at tying the game there if Cutler didn't "does what he do!".

    But, Bears/Packers are always close games lately.

    What I find ironic, is that Bears fans claim now the Bears were just going through the motions. Well, take a look at the Walden sack and Mike Martz reaction. yeah, that's just a coach going through the motions and mailing the game in. Nope, the bears were playing all out to keep GB out of the playoffs. Bears won't reach the SB. Their O-line is horrible.
     
  17. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    At least the Hester X-Factor was X=0. The Packers learned their lesson.
     
  18. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The Seahawks just won...

    How ******* lucky are the Bears? ******* ************* lucky, that's how
     
  19. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    it makes me sick. They will win by 21 and the fans will think they are destined for the SB. Watch we lose to ATL but take out Matt Ryan.
     
  20. red4tribe

    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    Hey, remember the Seahawks already went to Chicago and won earlier this year.
     
  21. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Seahawks absolutely turned it on tonight.. And they dominated Chicago in Chicago earlier in the year, so they have as good a shot to win as anyone.

    That said, we still need to win our game tomorrow afternoon, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.
     
  22. red4tribe

    red4tribe Cheesehead

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    I agree. We can't start talking about next week unless we win this week.
     
  23. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    The New Orleans Saints had a history of losing at the land with the worst turf. AND Seattle already beat the Bears, so its not all bad from the superstisious viewpoint. Though the Eagles may not want the Packers in teh way so they can tear the Bears a new one.
     
  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    We beat AZ in the regular season last year too. The Pats beat the giants in 07 in the regular season. Jets beat the colts last year in the regular season. We beat the Giants in 07 in the regular season.

    I cant imagine any bears fan being anything less than thrilled.
     
  25. Justanobserver

    Justanobserver Cheesehead

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    To many here are assuming the Pack will be moving on in the playoffs. I hope the players don't have that kind of attitude. The Bear game could have gone the other way. I think the Eagles will be looking to run the ball a bit. Mike Martz is a complete idiot as well. Thank god for that.

    The Seahawks beat the Bears already. The Seahawks have a very good offensive line and a RB and QB that can cause fits. I have a feeling the Seahawks are going to beat the Bears in Chicago.

    Anything goes in the playoffs and it is not beyond the realm of possibilities for even the Seahawks to be in the NFC championship game.

    Cutler will lose games for the Bears all by himself. The Seahawks blitzed the hell out of him their last meeting and it worked out quite well for them, just like the Packer game. If I was a defensive Coordinator I would blitz constantly. Cutler is a head case.

    If the Packers take care of the Eagles and Atlanta I predict they will be playing the Seahawks.
     

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