The offense must run through Jones and Dillon

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
6,851
Reaction score
1,924
The Jets thus far have a middling Pass Rush. I know you don’t want to hear this and I certainly don’t want heads exploding. Lol. But this might be a game to pass with a more normal mix.
I still think getting our RB and TE’s groups combined more involved in the passing game is key. That’s where our experience lies.

You know I know people laugh at Lewis but he’s an afterthought to Defenses and they just leave him wide open when he rolls out. I’d try to exploit that more especially as a surprise in the second half.
Obviously I’d use Lewis closer to the Paint where he can use his size as an advantage. He’s not going to get pushed around by a DB I’ve never seen that. They look up to him.. literally! I just loved the TD pass he caught, he’s got very big hands like baseball gloves and he’s like a forgotten weapon, even by us.
He used to be very formidable but he’s slowed a little but can still be a Redzone target.

We need to figure out what to do with Royce. He’s getting steamrolled on occasion and he doesn’t anchor well against an opponent who uses a bullrush. We watched him get steamrolled in London and Rodgers just tucked it and took a sack.
Nah, my head won't explode if they use the pass strategically against the Jets. That's a game where a pass/run ratio might be closer to 60/40. But the Jets are doing something right. They steamrolled the Dolphins, granted without Tua T.

And Lewis is an afterthought to most secondaries. It's funny to watch him catch a pass now and then and run through 2 or 3 guys for another 5 or 6 yards. And I loved that TD.

I haven't really been following Newman. Doesn't sound like he's adjusting to the NFL very well. That's unusual. Gluten has drafted well on the OL and they are coached well.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,584
Reaction score
5,871
Nah, my head won't explode if they use the pass strategically against the Jets. That's a game where a pass/run ratio might be closer to 60/40. But the Jets are doing something right. They steamrolled the Dolphins, granted without Tua T.
Yes. We can’t ever underestimate our opponent. Good opposing Coordinators can change up like a chameleon.

That said.the Jets played at home
against a Dolphins Defense is ranked
29th points
25th Yards allowed
25th Pass comp
23rd Sacks
29th 3rd Down %
27th Redzone TD

The Packers Defense is ranked
11th Points
5th Yards Allowed
6th Pass completions
11th in Sacks
4th 3rd Down %
7th Redzone TD

We’re coming off a Home Loss on another Continent that hurts and we will want redemption for a 2nd half
slop-fest last week.
I expect we’ll bring it this weekend and this is a real home game

GB 30 Jets 26
 
Last edited:

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
6,851
Reaction score
1,924
Yes. We can’t ever underestimate our opponent. Good opposing Coordinators can change up like a chameleon.

That said.
The Dolphins Defense is ranked
29th points
25th Yards allowed
25th Pass comp
23rd Sacks
29th 3rd Down %
27th Redzone TD

The Packers Defense is ranked
11th Points
5th Yards Allowed
6th Pass completions
11th in Sacks
4th 3rd Down %
7th Redzone TD

We’re not Miami. We’re coming off a Loss that hurts and playing at Lambeau and will want redemption for a slop fest.
Thanks for the info. Stats that mean something. This suggests that the Dolphins, with or without Tua, have been over performing, and the opposite for the Packers. I'd love to see a 3 possession win over the Jets. But please, just win.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,584
Reaction score
5,871
Thanks for the info. Stats that mean something. This suggests that the Dolphins, with or without Tua, have been over performing, and the opposite for the Packers. I'd love to see a 3 possession win over the Jets. But please, just win.
Amen. Their Offense is pretty good and consistent if we allow them Goal to go we might get in some trouble. We need to get off the field on 3rd downs and hold them more FG or sprinkled with Punts

The Jets Defense is very pedestrian and even THIS Packers Offense has an opportunity to get clicking here.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
That’s why you can’t stop there with the argument. The yards per carry will tell you the answer to your puzzle. Those “clock killing” runs are rarely average more than 2-3 yards (often <2 yards) because the opposing D knows you’ll mix more run and they play the run. It’s not a secret to a DC.

Teams averaging less than three yards per carry aren't going to kill any clock.

If the rushing average is 2.8 per carry X 30 rushes etc.. ?? That means those rushes were simply to close out the game. I’m going to hypothesize that’s a more rare scenario though.

It's odd to use the Bucs' game as an example to try to prove your point. The Packers struggled all game to run the ball, the average wasn't bad because of trying to run out the clock by any means.

Agree about how to use Jones and Dillon. And both RBs are probably better at running routes and catching than some of the WRs.

While both running backs can catch the ball out of the backfield they aren't any better at running routes and catching those balls than any of the receivers.

What drives me nuts - this is a talented team except for the WR and TE groups. And the receivers aren't terrible, they're learning. So MLF should use Jones and Dillon, pick his spots in the pass game and forget about long passes (except on occasion to keep the secondary honest).

The Packers need to be able to make plays on deep passes as well, otherwise they won't get enough space to make the others work consistently.

The Packers Defense is ranked
6th Pass completions
7th Redzone TD

Those two numbers are pretty misleading as the Packers rank dead last in opponents completion percentage as well as only 21st in points allowed per red zone opportunity.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SudsMcBucky

Cheesehead
Joined
May 17, 2022
Messages
201
Reaction score
158
Location
Buford, GA
The Jets thus far have a middling Pass Rush. I know you don’t want to hear this and I certainly don’t want heads exploding. Lol. But this might be a game to pass with a more normal mix.
I still think getting our RB and TE’s groups combined more involved in the passing game is key. That’s where our experience lies.
=
I think this is what got the Packers into trouble against the Gints. They probably saw how depleted they were in the defensive backfield and thought that was the way to attack.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,584
Reaction score
5,871
Teams averaging less than three yards per carry aren't going to kill any clock.

Anytime you run (in bounds inside 5 minutes) the clock is running. I can’t help you if you think it stops the clock running.

It's odd to use the Bucs' game as an example to try to prove your point. The Packers struggled all game to run the ball, the average wasn't bad because of trying to run out the clock by any means.
Yeah I got confused there. I was thinking of showing that there are cases like 20% of the time or whatnot that teams just don’t run well. But you’re right it didn’t fit the overall point.
Those two numbers are pretty misleading as the Packers rank dead last in opponents completion percentage as well as only 21st in points allowed per red zone opportunity.
Sure. But slightly below average scored Points allowed in the Redzone is irrelevant if you don’t let people in the Redzone to begin with.

If you are insinuating we are terrible in scoring, then you need to check points allowed. As a rule we don’t let them in the Redzone very often because if we did we wouldn’t be ranked 11th in scoring D. The overall trumps that stat you are trying to press to rebuke our success over the Jets Defense. The GB defense is MUCH better than the Jets and all the stats show it except your one. Lol

That overall points allowed (11th) is both related to AND trumps points scored from Redzone (21st). I’ll let you choose which one of those 2 are more important to keep low.
I pick points allowed.

The general point I’m making is it’s not our Defense that is the main problem. If our Offense was 11th in scoring like them? We’d steam roll some of these lesser opponents.
 
Last edited:

badmamba12

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 29, 2022
Messages
12
Reaction score
3
I have been saying it all year - The offense must run through Jones and Dillon! Whether it be on the ground or through the air, my targeted goal for combined touches between those two starts at 30! Anything less in my opinion and you aren’t giving yourself the best chance to win.

With all due respect, when Cobb is your best WR you better not be throwing almost 40 times in a game.
Yes I agree ,tighten end is good for red zone too
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Anytime you run (in bounds inside 5 minutes) the clock is running. I can’t help you if you think it stops the clock running.

I'm well aware of how the rules work. If a team runs the ball three times without gaining a first down they can only take a maximum of 2:30 minutes off the clock though.

That is if the other team doesn't take a timeout or the two minute warning happens in between. That's hardly killing the clock.


If you are insinuating we are terrible in scoring, then you need to check points allowed. As a rule we don’t let them in the Redzone very often because if we did we wouldn’t be ranked 11th in scoring D. The overall trumps that stat you are trying to press to rebuke our success over the Jets Defense. The GB defense is MUCH better than the Jets and all the stats show it except your one. Lol

That overall points allowed (11th) is both related to AND trumps points scored from Redzone (21st). I’ll let you choose which one of those 2 are more important to keep low.
I pick points allowed.

The general point I’m making is it’s not our Defense that is the main problem. If our Offense was 11th in scoring like them? We’d steam roll some of these lesser opponents.

I'm know the Packers' defense is ranked 11th overall in points allowed but they still haven't performed up to expectations.

While they played pretty well against the Bears and Bucs they allowed a combined 51 points to the Patriots and Giants. That's definitely not good enough by any means.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,468
Reaction score
1,322
I'm well aware of how the rules work. If a team runs the ball three times without gaining a first down they can only take a maximum of 2:30 minutes off the clock though.
Good point. And a completed pass takes time off the clock also. First downs are best.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Good point. And a completed pass takes time off the clock also. First downs are best.

I understand the reasoning behind running the ball trying to take time off the clock when leading in the fourth quarter. In my opinion it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if the opponents sells out to stop it though.
 

GreenNGold_81

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
280
I think we can probably change this post to "the offense should run through Jones". Dillon hasn't looked good this year. I think he's gotta drop some weight to gain some speed, he looks slow and isn't pushing piles.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,584
Reaction score
5,871
While they played pretty well against the Bears and Bucs they allowed a combined 51 points to the Patriots and Giants. That's definitely not good enough by any means.
That’s not true

They allowed 44 points total. But do
You really credit our Defense with Rodgers throwing a Pick6?? Do you realize that was a bonus drive for our Offense. Our Defense forced a Fumble and our Offense takes that D takeaway and throws a TD pass to our opponent!

Was the Rodgers Fumble at our own GB 32 yard line Sunday our Defenses fault?? That’s called slop ball in Offense. The Jets kicked a FG on that drive after going 6 plays for 20 yards (3.3 per) and getting frozen in the Redzone. How many times does the D have to stop our opponent to win?

This is a false, recurring theme. Blame the Defense for Offensive/ST woes. Our Offense NET per game is approaching bottom dweller.
 
Last edited:

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,785
Reaction score
907
Just going to put this here: from Zach Kruse on Twitter, the Packers ran the ball on 1st down 11 times against the Jets and got a grand total of 25 yards. Six of the eleven attempts gained 2 yards or less. On first down, Jones ran 6 times for 10 yards and Dillon ran 5 times for 15 yards.

Yes, Jones and Dillon are the best offensive options, but we're all getting to see why running backs NEED to have at least the threat of a deep passing game to excel.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
They allowed 44 points total. But do
You really credit our Defense with Rodgers throwing a Pick6?? Do you realize that was a bonus drive for our Offense. Our Defense forced a Fumble and our Offense takes that D takeaway and throws a TD pass to our opponent!

Was the Rodgers Fumble at our own GB 32 yard line Sunday our Defenses fault?? That’s called slop ball in Offense. The Jets kicked a FG on that drive after going 6 plays for 20 yards (3.3 per) and getting frozen in the Redzone. How many times does the D have to stop our opponent to win?

This is a false, recurring theme. Blame the Defense for Offensive/ST woes. Our Offense NET per game is approaching bottom dweller.

You're right that the defense doesn't deserve blame for the pick six vs. the Patriots as well as the blocked punt returned for a touchdown against the Jets. They still haven't performed like an elite defense for an entire game over the past three games though.

Just going to put this here: from Zach Kruse on Twitter, the Packers ran the ball on 1st down 11 times against the Jets and got a grand total of 25 yards. Six of the eleven attempts gained 2 yards or less. On first down, Jones ran 6 times for 10 yards and Dillon ran 5 times for 15 yards.

Yes, Jones and Dillon are the best offensive options, but we're all getting to see why running backs NEED to have at least the threat of a deep passing game to excel.

In addition, the Packers were more successful throwing the ball on first down against the Jets, completing 11 of 16 attempts for 108 yards and a TD.
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
4,247
Reaction score
1,532
That’s not true

They allowed 44 points total. But do
You really credit our Defense with Rodgers throwing a Pick6?? Do you realize that was a bonus drive for our Offense. Our Defense forced a Fumble and our Offense takes that D takeaway and throws a TD pass to our opponent!

Was the Rodgers Fumble at our own GB 32 yard line Sunday our Defenses fault?? That’s called slop ball in Offense. The Jets kicked a FG on that drive after going 6 plays for 20 yards (3.3 per) and getting frozen in the Redzone. How many times does the D have to stop our opponent to win?

This is a false, recurring theme. Blame the Defense for Offensive/ST woes. Our Offense NET per game is approaching bottom dweller.
I think what it amounts to is that our defense although not one of the elites in the league is having to play too much defense. And this tends to help teams that struggle on offense.
 
Last edited:

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
15,893
Reaction score
3,797
Just going to put this here: from Zach Kruse on Twitter, the Packers ran the ball on 1st down 11 times against the Jets and got a grand total of 25 yards. Six of the eleven attempts gained 2 yards or less. On first down, Jones ran 6 times for 10 yards and Dillon ran 5 times for 15 yards.

Yes, Jones and Dillon are the best offensive options, but we're all getting to see why running backs NEED to have at least the threat of a deep passing game to excel.
I knew it was bad. Didn't know the exact numbers though. I thought I mentioned it in this thread, but must have been a different one on Jones maybe? Anyway, we were getting destroyed up front. This is what is going to happen week after week after week with any team that has a decent defense.

We do not have skill players to cover for an average or subpar Oline. I said it last year too, everyone thought our oline was so great missing all those guys and it was mostly a product of our QB #1 knowing the what when and where no matter what he faced, keeping Mercedes in blocking always and offensive game calling to help those guys out. But every time we got to the money games it was the same, Attack the LOS, everything is happening up front, don't worry about behind you.

Over and over and over it puts us into unfavorable down and distances. Those little flare passes etc are great when they are set up to work. When they're defended to blow you up as soon as you catch it, not so great. Slants are fun, except when all passing lanes are flooded with defenders within 7 yards of the LOS immediately after the ball is snapped. We don't have the skill players to have a consistent vertical threat. Our downfield ball is basically get to your drop, launch and hope he beat his guy. There is no developing play. There is no play action that works for us because we can't block it up long enough for it to work. Any team with even good DL and linebackers is going to give us absolute fits until we figure out our offensive line problem.

Who cares if we hit 1 or 2 a game. Teams know we can't do it again. There is nothing in the pass game that we can give a look to and loosen a defense for the run game. And our run game is good if it's part of a balanced offense. Problem is, we're not good enough on either end to have an identity and we're stuck in no man's land. If you have some really good pass catchers you can use that to an extent with this QB to overcome that. But we don't. We absolutely need our Oline to do better and play off a successful run game or we have nothing but an occasional play from our QB. It's not a recipe for success.
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
4,247
Reaction score
1,532
I knew it was bad. Didn't know the exact numbers though. I thought I mentioned it in this thread, but must have been a different one on Jones maybe? Anyway, we were getting destroyed up front. This is what is going to happen week after week after week with any team that has a decent defense.

We do not have skill players to cover for an average or subpar Oline. I said it last year too, everyone thought our oline was so great missing all those guys and it was mostly a product of our QB #1 knowing the what when and where no matter what he faced, keeping Mercedes in blocking always and offensive game calling to help those guys out. But every time we got to the money games it was the same, Attack the LOS, everything is happening up front, don't worry about behind you.

Over and over and over it puts us into unfavorable down and distances. Those little flare passes etc are great when they are set up to work. When they're defended to blow you up as soon as you catch it, not so great. Slants are fun, except when all passing lanes are flooded with defenders within 7 yards of the LOS immediately after the ball is snapped. We don't have the skill players to have a consistent vertical threat. Our downfield ball is basically get to your drop, launch and hope he beat his guy. There is no developing play. There is no play action that works for us because we can't block it up long enough for it to work. Any team with even good DL and linebackers is going to give us absolute fits until we figure out our offensive line problem.

Who cares if we hit 1 or 2 a game. Teams know we can't do it again. There is nothing in the pass game that we can give a look to and loosen a defense for the run game. And our run game is good if it's part of a balanced offense. Problem is, we're not good enough on either end to have an identity and we're stuck in no man's land. If you have some really good pass catchers you can use that to an extent with this QB to overcome that. But we don't. We absolutely need our Oline to do better and play off a successful run game or we have nothing but an occasional play from our QB. It's not a recipe for success.
That is the foundation of both the offense and the defense. Even the blocked punt allowed by the defense was caused by the failure to block up front. And when FGs get blocked it is not completely because of a high snap. Were we ready for the Jets D line? Was it simply mano a Mano? We have faced strong Ds before and prepared for them. We won games without Adams or Lazard in the lineup. We won games without one of our RBs. We almost won a game last year without our HOF QB. Obviously, RG is going to be addressed after hearing the post game interview.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,468
Reaction score
1,322
I think what it amounts to is that our defense although not one of the elites in the league is having to play too much defense. And this tends to happy to teams that struggle on offense.
And giving up too many 3rd downs on D. Bend but don't break is a dinasour.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,584
Reaction score
5,871
You're right that the defense doesn't deserve blame for the pick six vs. the Patriots as well as the blocked punt returned for a touchdown against the Jets. They still haven't performed like an elite defense for an entire game over the past three games though.
Ok. Maybe they aren’t elite yet. But if my math is correct they give up like 18.2 true points per contest. That’s plenty good enough to win some football games. Just those 2 TD’s (Blocked Punt * pick6) are hurtful.

They give up lots if running yards but so far holding strong in points allowed. They do need more takeaways but at least Barry played lots of full press this week. It showed in the 110 yards passing allowed.

Quay is not playing well right now. He’s shown flashes, but he’s very average and he’s missing lots of tackles or not playing instinctively. He overran another play for a long rushing TD.
In games where we shut down the pass, I think it might be time to work Eric Wilson. He’s shown he’s hungry to play. Blocked a Punt in his first game. Maybe sub him more in the second half to get fresh legs against the run?
 
Last edited:

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
270
I think we can probably change this post to "the offense should run through Jones". Dillon hasn't looked good this year. I think he's gotta drop some weight to gain some speed, he looks slow and isn't pushing piles.
O-Line not as good as last year. Wish Pack would've worked something out with Billy Turner. He was very solid.
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top