The offense must run through Jones and Dillon

Pokerbrat2000

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Despite all the discussions about how bad Gute is at judging talent, I'm not going to get on that bandwagon either. How can you argue at the picks he's made when the majority of them are the future of the team, and doing quite well? Love, Gary, our WR corps, two TEs, and emerging offensive linemen that people thought were wasted picks.
All one has to do is look at what other teams have done in the draft, to know that Gute and his staff know what they are doing. Many of those teams squandering multiple high picks on players that have failed.

Now I realize that you never want to use the low bar, to set your own bar, but the Packers draft and develop method is working well.
 

Thirteen Below

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Despite all the discussions about how bad Gute is at judging talent, I'm not going to get on that bandwagon either. How can you argue at the picks he's made when the majority of them are the future of the team, and doing quite well? Love, Gary, our WR corps, two TEs, and emerging offensive linemen that people thought were wasted picks. Then there's what were marginally desired players like Valentine and Ballentine, who came through well enough to be considered for field time next year, if only as subs?
Gutekunst's first couple of drafts were a mixed bag. He didn't get off to a very exciting start, but I think he learned quickly and probably assembled a strong staff of scouts. 2022 was a realy good draft, and 2023 is probably the best single draft year I've seen since I started folling the Packers during the Lombardi era. Almost 100%; that just never happens.

I'm fully onboard. I have confidence in the man. He'll make some mistakes here and there, probably miss on a few, but his last couple of drafts have bought him a heck of a lot of benefit of the doubt.
 

Heyjoe4

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Despite all the discussions about how bad Gute is at judging talent, I'm not going to get on that bandwagon either. How can you argue at the picks he's made when the majority of them are the future of the team, and doing quite well? Love, Gary, our WR corps, two TEs, and emerging offensive linemen that people thought were wasted picks. Then there's what were marginally desired players like Valentine and Ballentine, who came through well enough to be considered for field time next year, if only as subs?

If I could have the pick of the litter, I'd take Shipley to be honest. He's got a motor like Isiah Pacheco in KC. He was solid at Clemson. The only thing that made his name less of a household name is that they didn't have as great a season as a team to get him that notoriety.

You're right about being as many as 8. It's a deep draft in that area this year.
Well I'll be happy if they come away with a solid talent at RB, more in the mold of Jones, ideally a little bigger. As for Allen, I just haven't seen enough of him to say he's a second round guy, 3rd round, etc. Then again, I'm not a scout.

I go by the articles I read, try to form a consensus for what that's worth. And I rely on Ty, like most of us on here.
 

Heyjoe4

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Hollerith cards. 80 columns. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate.
Now you guys are dating yourselves. That was my college IT project at UWM in..... the 70s. A huge stack of punch cards that issued orders to, I think, COBOL. And then searching through the cards for the extra punch, or missing punch, or misplaced punch. I'm dating myself too by knowing this.

But "Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate" was a term actually used and now just seems hilarious. What does "spindle" mean anyway as applied to a card? The point was, don't **** with the cards.

Factoid - Hollerith was the guy who went on to found IBM. I know. So what?
 
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gopkrs

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LaFleur really seemed to come into his own last year imo. And now he has really assembled his own staff I think, and Gute last year did xlnt with the draft. Optimistic that this will all show on the field. Our expectations are now sky high. It is still going to be very difficult to do what we want to do. But we sure seem to be on the right path.
 

Heyjoe4

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LaFleur really seemed to come into his own last year imo. And now he has really assembled his own staff I think, and Gute last year did xlnt with the draft. Optimistic that this will all show on the field. Our expectations are now sky high. It is still going to be very difficult to do what we want to do. But we sure seem to be on the right path.
Excellent summary. Expectations may be a little too high, but hey, better than the opposite.

And yeah, with Rodgers and his ego out of the way, MLF is finally able to do his own thing. He fixed the Joe Barry situation in short order and with an interesting pick.

And Gluten now has 5 picks in the first three rounds to strengthen this roster at S, LT, C, RB, CB, and Edge. And what a luxury to not have to draft a WR or TE unless a tremendous value shows up.

I'm looking forward to the next season. It would be fun to see some new teams take over some of the top spots. Buffalo has probably had its last, best shot at a SB - their D is very old. The Niners are going to have a hard time paying everyone. Maybe the Chiefs will show some vulnerability of the Swift/Kelce spectacle keeps playing out.
 

Thirteen Below

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It would be fun to see some new teams take over some of the top spots. Buffalo has probably had its last, best shot at a SB - their D is very old. The Niners are going to have a hard time paying everyone. Maybe the Chiefs will show some vulnerability of the Swift/Kelce spectacle keeps playing out.
Kansas City is due to have some money problems soon, as well. Their window has been open quite a while, and they have 25 free agents this year. Several of them are key player who will be expecting big bumps from their rookie contracts. They do have a lot of cap space, because they're a notoriously tight-****** team, but they won't have as much wiggle room these next couple of years as they have the past several. It's also a good bet they'll lose some pretty good players these next couple of years because of their habit of squeezing a dollar until the eagle screams.
 
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Despite all the discussions about how bad Gute is at judging talent, I'm not going to get on that bandwagon either. How can you argue at the picks he's made when the majority of them are the future of the team, and doing quite well? Love, Gary, our WR corps, two TEs, and emerging offensive linemen that people thought were wasted picks. Then there's what were marginally desired players like Valentine and Ballentine, who came through well enough to be considered for field time next year, if only as subs?

If I could have the pick of the litter, I'd take Shipley to be honest. He's got a motor like Isiah Pacheco in KC. He was solid at Clemson. The only thing that made his name less of a household name is that they didn't have as great a season as a team to get him that notoriety.

You're right about being as many as 8. It's a deep draft in that area this year.
Yes. We both know that Aaron Jones is here to stay at minimum 1 more season+
Now the next Chess move is Free Agency as far as Dillon is concerned. Will he chase $$? Idk

The other factor is we are in what I’d call “Win Now mode” being a FG away from another NFC game appearance. My call would be to draft 1 RB that we feel is talented or seasoned enough to supplant AJ Dillon in pecking order by seasons end. Braelon Allen is one of about
4-5 choices to do so. Getting past the first 5 RB’s and this goal becomes speculative. If we can’t get a clear cut RB2 now? if I’m Gutey I’d wait until 2025 to draft at RB or go after a 5th-7th Round prospect with high long term upside.

My personal wish is we don’t go projects with any of our first 5 selections. We don’t need a Sean Rhyan this draft if that makes sense. Get me players that have a high probability of early production. That varies from draft to draft and I understand best athlete available. We don’t have 3 years to foster a difference maker (not that you said that, just more a general philosophy) we need a guy who can compete for starter tomorrow. That’s either Dillon, his “equivalent” or preferably better and anything past about a Top 100 selection is highly speculative injecting into our O right now. A 3rd Rounder at RB likely attains that goal of early playing time.
 
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mradtke66

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My personal wish is we don’t go projects with any of our first 5 selections. We don’t need a Sean Rhyan this draft if that makes sense. Get me players that have a high probability of early production. That varies from draft to draft and I understand best athlete available. We don’t have 3 years to foster a difference maker (not that you said that, just more a general philosophy) we need a guy who can compete for starter tomorrow. That’s either Dillon, his “equivalent” or preferably better and anything past about a Top 100 selection is highly speculative injecting into our O right now. A 3rd Rounder at RB likely attains that goal of early playing time.

For RB, this makes sense. The problem is the "guy who can compete for starter tomorrow" might already be at his ceiling. That's not a given, but it's more likely the later you get in the draft.

You described AJ Hawk. Terrible 5th overall pick, great 2nd round pick.
 

Thirteen Below

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Yes. We both know that Aaron Jones is here to stay at minimum 1 more season+
Now the next Chess move is Free Agency as far as Dillon is concerned. Will he chase $$? Idk

The other factor is we are in what I’d call “Win Now mode” being a FG away from another NFC game appearance. My call would be to draft 1 RB that we feel is talented or seasoned enough to supplant AJ Dillon in pecking order by seasons end. Braelon Allen is one of about
4-5 choices to do so. Getting past the first 5 RB’s and this goal becomes speculative. If we can’t get a clear cut RB2 now? if I’m Gutey I’d wait until 2025 to draft at RB or go after a 5th-7th Round prospect with high long term upside.

My personal wish is we don’t go projects with any of our first 5 selections. We don’t need a Sean Rhyan this draft if that makes sense. Get me players that have a high probability of early production. That varies from draft to draft and I understand best athlete available. We don’t have 3 years to foster a difference maker (not that you said that, just more a general philosophy) we need a guy who can compete for starter tomorrow. That’s either Dillon, his “equivalent” or preferably better and anything past about a Top 100 selection is highly speculative injecting into our O right now. A 3rd Rounder at RB likely attains that goal of early playing time.
Our running back situation is a little dicey. First, I feel confident we'll get another good year out of Jones, but not as confident we'll get more than one. At his age, there's a good chance we'll be needing to replace him at least sometime in the 2025 season.

Second, there's Dillon...do we want to sign him to another contract that will cost over $3M for a single year? Do we want to lock him in for 3? Or do we want to cut him loose now and replace him immediately?

In almost every one of those scenarios, RB is a strong need within 2 years, and possibly already this season, so I think we need to make it a priority in this year's draft. Considering that this is a good RB draft, and there are about a half dozen RBs who should fit our immediate need, I don't think we can afford to come out of Day 2 without a back. I wouldn't mind also taking a shot at a Day 3 back, like Milton or Davis.

But I don't think we can afford not to take one early. There's just too much uncertainty at that position, and it's just too critically important a position for our offense. If we don't prioritize it this April, we may very well find ourselves having to replace 2 backs in one offseason, and that's a tough spot to be in.
 
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Heyjoe4

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Our running back situation is a little dicey. First, I feel confident we'll get another good year out of Jones, but not as confident we'll get more than one. At his age, there's a good chance we'll be needing to replace him at least sometime in the 2025 season.

Second, there's Dillon...do we want to sign him to another contract that will cost over $3M for a single year? Do we want to lock him in for 3? Or do we want to cut him loose now and replace him immediately?

In almost every one of those scenarios, RB is a strong need within 2 years, and possibly already this season, so I think we need to make it a priority in this year's draft. Considering that this is a good RB draft, and there are about a half dozen RBs who should fit our immediate need, I don't think we can afford to come out of Day 2 without a back. I wouldn't mind also taking a shot at a Day 3 back, like Milton or Davis. But I don't think we can afford not to take one early. There's just too much uncertainty at that position, and it's just too critically important a position for our offense.
Sums it up well. I'd use one of the second round picks on a RB, depending on who is available and addressing other pressing needs, like S/CB and OL, ideally a LT. Walker has certainly progressed, and if he can start, great. Then pick for depth, or consider a C early.
 

Poppa San

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Factoid -
You are as old now as you have ever been
What does "spindle" mean anyway as applied to a card?
You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Point was to not add extra holes into the card. Changed the "E" to an "O" maybe. However the ASCII code was read for that column.

Factoid -- I was wrong. NOW you are as old as you have ever been.
 

Heyjoe4

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You are as old now as you have ever been

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Point was to not add extra holes into the card. Changed the "E" to an "O" maybe. However the ASCII code was read for that column.

Factoid -- I was wrong. NOW you are as old as you have ever been.
Factoid - you're wrong again Poppa. NOW is as old as I've ever been. Well until you see this text. And ASCII code? You're no youngster either!

Thanks for the graphic definition of spindle. Although why I would have taken one of my precious cards and stuck it on a quasi-needle I'll never know. I guess I could have punched a hole in a card with a hole punch while sitting in the Gasthaus. I spent a lotta time there.

I remember sitting in the IT lab at UWM, waiting for the huge printouts they had, trying to figure out what card(s) I had ****** up. All to add a column of numbers and present an accurate total. Now we have Excel.
 

Poppa San

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And ASCII code? You're no youngster either!
ASCII code is still used in industrial control systems with string data. And less robust/refined systems require it for communications. I ran into Hex error codes earlier this week.

ETA: You were wrong again. NOW you are as old as you have ever been.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Gute last year did xlnt with the draft.
He may have even shaken his 3rd round curse with the drafting of Tucker Kraft last year. I would have preferred Jake Ferguson (drafted by Cowgirls in Rd. 4), but I think both TE's have a promising career ahead of them in the NFL.
 
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But I don't think we can afford not to take one early. There's just too much uncertainty at that position, and it's just too critically important a position for our offense. If we don't prioritize it this April, we may very well find ourselves having to replace 2 backs in one offseason, and that's a tough spot to be in.
I agree and even IF we retain Dillon, there’s a need inside 1-2 seasons. Back that up with look what having a dynamic ground game did for Jordan when #33 came back.
Meaning we’d better keep that flow going and have a better RB backup plan than Dillon. Just imo

As I’ve said before with Dillon. He’s really a nice tool, but he doesn’t and shouldn’t be relegated to be our starting RB1 if #33 misses time. He’s a short yardage RB and we’d benefit from a few more passes in space. On replaying games it’s glaring to me how Dillon was quite successful catching the ball in space.

We need a Corum or Shipley or Brooks etc. etc. even IF Dillon comes back.

If we retain Dillon and we go RB early (call it top125) We only need 1
Wilson, Taylor etc. can fight for a PS and primary depth piece if any of those 3 injure.
 
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