The end of the forward pass?

[DarkHelmet]

Was anybody else scared by what the Patriots did last night? How is it possible to run every down -- when the defense knows you will run every down -- and still you rip off 7, 8, 12 yards on the ground play after play after play? What prevents the Patriots from doing that to every other team in the league? Is the Bills run defense that bad or did the Pats find some magic trick to exploit?

 

[Dantés]

Was anybody else scared by what the Patriots did last night? How is it possible to run every down -- when the defense knows you will run every down -- and still you rip off 7, 8, 12 yards on the ground play after play after play? What prevents the Patriots from doing that to every other team in the league? Is the Bills run defense that bad or did the Pats find some magic trick to exploit?

Scoring points on offense because you're not playing in a windstorm. That's what prevents NE from doing that to every other team in the league.

That said, I do think we are going to see a resurgence in the importance of running games, as that is the main way you attack the 2 high shell defenses that are in vogue right now.

 

[Pkrjones]

I thought the Bills were stoopid last night. They had 9-10 in the box to attempt to stop the run but it was 4 DL's, 4-5 LB's and a Safety. They KNEW NE was pounding the ball yet they didn't go heavy with 5 or 6 DL's so the NE OL's consistently had an OL vs. LB or S AND a FB ahead of the RB... complete mismatch at the point of attack for NE. Should've forced NE to thrown but didn't.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I thought the Bills were stoopid last night. They had 9-10 in the box to attempt to stop the run but it was 4 DL's, 4-5 LB's and a Safety. They KNEW NE was pounding the ball yet they didn't go heavy with 5 or 6 DL's so the NE OL's consistently had an OL vs. LB or S AND a FB ahead of the RB... complete mismatch at the point of attack for NE. Should've forced NE to thrown but didn't.

Agreed and Bill B. knows how to exploit a defense when they become predictable. I was actually surprised when the Pats threw their second pass of the game in the 4th Q. But by then, the Bills were so screwed on defense, even bad passes were completed.

 

[DarkHelmet]

It's been an article of faith for me that a defense can stop an offense if they know a run is coming. Eleven guys ought to be able to stop one guy for minimal gain. I was astounded that the Pats kept knifing through for meaningful yards. So was it just poor defense?

 

[Pkrjones]

I was astounded that the Pats kept knifing through for meaningful yards. So was it just poor defense?

It appeared that NE was running a lot of guard-tackle gap initially, but the RB's were able to find the cut-back due to over-pursuit OR get to the edge before the LB's. IMHO, Buffalo should've added a 5th DL rather than another LB (or 2) as those guys would over-pursue and get in each others' way.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The announcers pointed out several times, as well as did the Manning brothers when I switched over to them, that Bill B. loves to exploit matchups. So if he saw a player out there that he knew they could run right at, he did it.

It was pretty comical that with the high winds, the Bills knew that the Pats were running the ball on pretty much every play. Despite that, the Bills players were so anxious to get in on a tackle, they let the runner get behind them way too often.

 

[Dantés]

It's been an article of faith for me that a defense can stop an offense if they know a run is coming. Eleven guys ought to be able to stop one guy for minimal gain. I was astounded that the Pats kept knifing through for meaningful yards. So was it just poor defense?

Truisms like that don't really exist in football.

I'm a Montana State Bobcats fan. They haven't had a real passing threat on offense since 2015. They've been a thoroughly run-oriented offense. Teams almost always know what's coming, and they often can't stop it because the personnel are good and they execute well.

The same is true for the Pats/Bills last night. The Bills knowing that the run was coming didn't help them get off blocks or tackle. If the offensive line and the auxiliary blockers win their match-ups, and the backs break a tackle or two, you're going to give up yardage even if you know what's coming.

 

[El Guapo]

Each scheme is different. The way that I generally understand having more of a 3-4 (or in this case 4-5) scheme you are asking your DL to take up the blockers and clog lanes so that the LBs can make the plays. That said, I am always a big believer that if what you are doing is not working, switch to something else that does work.

 

[El Guapo]

I'm a Montana State Bobcats fan. They haven't had a real passing threat on offense since 2015. They've been a thoroughly run-oriented offense. Teams almost always know what's coming, and they often can't stop it because the personnel are good and they execute well.

In 2021 the Bobcats rushed 522 times in 12 games, an average of 43.5 attempts/game which was 6th most in FCS. All things being equal, had they played in the FBS they would have ranked 15th just ahead of the Badgers.

Not surprising, the top three spots in FBS were dominated by the three service teams: Air Force (64.7/gm), Army (60.9/gm), and Navy (58.5/gm). My Minnesota Gophers were in 7th place with an average of 45.5 attempts/game.

To me all that means is that some teams are better at things than others. I always knew what my older brothers were going to do but they ran me over anyway. As has been repeated countless times, everyone knew that the Packers sweep was coming but couldn't stop it. Some teams are better at run blocking than pass protection. Belichik's teams are usually coached well and he seemed to have them playing at a high level.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Don't see the service academies ripping off consecutive national championships at lower levels so.. no, this isn't a thing at the NFL level.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's been an article of faith for me that a defense can stop an offense if they know a run is coming. Eleven guys ought to be able to stop one guy for minimal gain. I was astounded that the Pats kept knifing through for meaningful yards. So was it just poor defense?

The players on defense need to win their matchups first to be able to tackle the running back first though. It seems that didn't happen enough with the Bills to contain the Pats' running game.

 

[Half Empty]

The Packer sweep

 

[mongoosev]

when adams was out with a broken leg or something the Cards knew we would run on them and sure enough we did just that and they were stumped. well, we did shake it up with Jones catching a pass or two.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

when adams was out with a broken leg or something the Cards knew we would run on them and sure enough we did just that and they were stumped. well, we did shake it up with Jones catching a pass or two.

The Packers game vs. the Cardinals was completely different as Rodgers dropped back to throw 38 times vs. the Cardinals while the team rushed a total of 34 times.

 

[sschind]

As HE alluded to knowing what you need to do and doing it are two different things and if you overcommit you can be burned elsewhere.

After Kaepernick ran all over us in the playoffs MM went all out and he was determined not to let it happen again. The result next time they played? If I recall correctly Kaepernick was not nearly as effective as a runner but he passed all over us.

Its like I said in the Lamar Jackson discussion. When you have an opposing player, or in this case a game plan, that causes you to have to dramatically alter your approach to defending it it puts you at a disadvantage right out of the gate. Sometimes you overcommit and get beat another way and sometimes you just don't have the right personell to get it done.

 

[ARPackFan]

Was anybody else scared by what the Patriots did last night? How is it possible to run every down -- when the defense knows you will run every down -- and still you rip off 7, 8, 12 yards on the ground play after play after play? What prevents the Patriots from doing that to every other team in the league? Is the Bills run defense that bad or did the Pats find some magic trick to exploit?

The Patriots averaged 4.8 yards a carry on 45 attempts. Take the 64 yard run out for a TD and its's only 3.5 a carry and 6 points for the game. The Bills still needed to cover and did a decent job. Not very scary unless you are a person that freaks out on the It's a Small World ride at Disney.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Not very scary unless you are a person that freaks out on the It's a Small World ride at Disney.

I don't blame anyone freaking out over the It's a Small World ride. That song.. that damn incessant song...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't blame anyone freaking out over the It's a Small World ride. That song.. that damn incessant song...

For me it was the Chuckie like characters that appeared to be ready to jump into our boat and stab us all!

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