tynimiller
Cheesehead
- Joined
- May 2, 2012
- Messages
- 14,410
- Reaction score
- 5,157
Well they did, but they just acquired Wentz from said Colts.
I missed that? Been in meetings all day
Well they did, but they just acquired Wentz from said Colts.
Do you disagree? He was awful.For a man that speaks in such definitive terms when it fits your narrative you sure speak in a bunch of provisional type statements as well "if Lazard wasn't on the field" and such.
Do you disagree? He was awful.
Thats the first thing I thought.The Colts were very high on Jordan Love - I truly think this is the leading candidate IF I'm calling someone about a trade.
I missed that? Been in meetings all day
Well thought out optionsThe 5 LoveLanguagesDirections
When Love was drafted I think it is a safe assumption that nearly the entire Green Bay fan base paused for a moment before reacting...some were shocked that it actually happened, some were pissed, some were just speechless; needless to say it was one of the biggest "moments" in Gute's reign in GB. Speaking of Gute, for a man who has honestly excelled at so many personnel moves in his time, for some none of it matters because he drafted Love. That however is a discussion for another thread.
This thread however is to discuss the future of Love...what do you feel is the most likely scenario of the 5 options we now have before us as an organization that just inked Rodgers (or will be inking) to a new deal "rumored to be four years" but most likely will mean at minimum 3 more seasons with good health that Rodgers is in GB. How does that impact Love?
Love's contract for those perhaps not aware runs through the end of the 2023 season/year. The Packers after 2022, could exercise the fifth year option on him being a first round pick - BUT that would cost per some estimations of around $20M. It's tough to imagine the Packers doing that as that would be the third year of Rodgers new deal and even conservatively would mean around $45-$60M would be hitting cap just in the QB room.
So the first question I pose is the easiest one to answer IMO - do we franchise tag him?
I say emphatically no, and it isn't for any other reason than it would be fiscally ignorant to do so. None of us know (the organization would be only ones that truly might know) what Love really is...his rookie year was essentially a redshirt oddity with Covid, this last season was more "normal" but he still hasn't seen a true gameplan installed and know he was going to play for the entire week up to a game. He has struggled for sure, shown bright spots in camp and in some preseason games - but nothing to place the tag.
That leads us to what I believe are the five directions for Love and GB that are left....(in no specific order of my personal opinion)
#1
Love goes nowhere till his contract is up with no 5th year exercised. Agree/Disagree it doesn't matter, GB and staff have a young QB they believe in as their backup, which for 2022 and 2023 is rather affordable (hits of 3.37M & 3.94M). After the 2023 season anyone's guess is as good as another in this scenario....means we could get nothing in return other than backup service for years out of Love, or could end up that plus whatever compensatory pick he may bring signing elsewhere.
#2
Love is traded this year before trade deadline. Arguably this is the weakest QB class draftwise that we have had some are saying for over ten years....and get this....Love doesn't turn 24 till November - Pickett is actually older than Love turning 24 in June. Willis will turn 23 in May, Ridder 23 in August and Howell 22 in September. Love has two years, albeit not normal years, of NFL exposure and experience in an excellent system with an awesome QB coach and behind a first ballot HOFer...there is a lot to like about that vs a weaker class of college QBs to choose from. A bonus to the team trading for Love in this scenario is IF he lights it up, the team could choose to exercise his 5th year option...just to keep him in house for two additional years, with that next (4th) year still at a low figure and discussions can happen before that 5th year hits in guaranteed money (if I understand that part of things right). Either way having that option is the one bonus attractiveness here as well if you are a suitor looking at Love.
#3
Love is traded at the completion of this year/into next year. This scenario the suitor most likely will NOT exercise the 5th year and is purely looking at rolling the dice on a young QB, with unknown promise still that perhaps showed something to them in the previous (2022) season to catch their attention. Low cost/risk here and could in season or after a successful one then discuss a deal extension or new contract with Love should it work out.
#4
Green Bay keeps Love, exercises the 5th year option. I put it down, because it is an option and direction which exists...however outside of Rodgers waffling again or a catastrophic injury (knock on wood) in the 2022 season - it is a scenario with the new Rodgers deal coming that just makes very little sense. I know I said I wouldn't place personal opinion on these but I feel this direction has less than a 1% chance of occurring if placing percent likelihoods next to these.
#5
Love is the starter in GB for the 2023 season after Rodgers retires. This similar to #4 could happen, but I just don't see happening unless Rodgers rides off into the sunset after a SB win in 2022.
As for my personal bet, I'm struggling to figure out which camp I fall in between #2 & #3. There is sound fiscal logic behind #1, and doing #2 & #3 is in a way admitting a faulty pick - or some would argue it is. However, if I'm Gute I see it as you never expected Rodgers still in many ways had his best years ahead of him and/or that you would be able to retain him this long....so it is wise now to move Love and draft or sign a different back up. In the end, I think I'd be calling a lot of GMs this year given the draft class is so weak...you know even a team that is supposedly looking hard at Trubisky, he isn't going to cost a ton - bring in Love at a cheap value as well, and see how rises in the competition...or a team that truly doesn't expect to be in the hunt and with QB "need" like the Lions or similar team, Love for a year to see what you can get out of him is arguably attractive in a way. I think realistically the best GB could hope for in return for Love (which could be a thread in and of itself) is a conditional 2nd rounder + a 7th or so. I mean even Josh Rosen got a 2nd in return...which that is the most similar recent comparable trade we can point to. So you get a team that will give you a 7th and then a 4th that could conditionally escalate as high as a 2nd I believe personally you have to do it.
FTR, as I've harped and harped on...I liked Love as a prospect a LOT. He was my QB 2 in that draft, BUT I would have never traded up for him or picked him as I just felt it wasn't a need I perceived (clearly organization felt differently...who knows maybe justified and a ton has changed since). Jordan Love is a HIGH character young man, from my connections to the team he is loved by his teammates and the kid has ability for sure - love to see him get a chance at a shot somewhere else.
What do you predict happens?
Favre retired so we had little choice in moving forward with Rodgers. Favre then did a Uturn & I remember fans wanting him back & Rodgers demoted. Rodgers hasn't retired so this argument in , in my opinion, invalid.Nah man. If this team had any confidence in Love they would have moved on. Favre was a first ballot HOF coming off an MVP caliber season as well but they believed in Rodgers. That would have been a career ending move for TT if he wasnt sure Rodgers was going to be the guy moving forward. This move showed this team has no confidence in Love. They could have gotten good compensation to retool with and resetting their cap in essentially a year.
Credit to Gutey for realizing he was a moron drafting Love though. It takes a lot for someone to realize theyre an idiot.
If the team didnt believe in Rodgers they would have welcomed Favre back when he unretired. If the team had any belief that Love was the guy they would have traded Rodgers and gotten themselves out of the cap mess theyve gotten us into.Favre retired so we had little choice in moving forward with Rodgers. Favre then did a Uturn & I remember fans wanting him back & Rodgers demoted. Rodgers hasn't retired so this argument in , in my opinion, invalid.
All that said. Coach Tom Clements is a gift from God for this scenario. In his 11 years in GB we finished top 10 in scoring 9X. He went on to develop Kyler Murray who was the only QB in Cardinals history to make the Probowl inside 2 seasons. Arizona went from 27th in giveaways to 9th in 1 season under Tom. He is an expert at reducing the #1 most critical mistake a QB makes.. INT. What’s Loves weakness? INT.
Clements has not only led his own team to a National Championship as a player, but also brought that experience into his 30 years of Coaching. I would be highly surprised if Clements doesn’t dramatically improve Jordan Love inside his Rookie contract.. to an actual point of surprise for us fans.
There is also the unusual scenario that Rodgers gets hurt like he did in 2013 and 2017 and Love is forced to play Hundley or Tolzien. In which case he would be required to start quite a few games. This would show if he has potential or not. And that would probably give other teams a price value for him. But if Rodgers should succumb to another broken collar bone I think he just may consider retirement. Now if Love were to flop as did Hundley we would get nothing for him and we are back to the draft again.The 5 LoveLanguagesDirections
When Love was drafted I think it is a safe assumption that nearly the entire Green Bay fan base paused for a moment before reacting...some were shocked that it actually happened, some were pissed, some were just speechless; needless to say it was one of the biggest "moments" in Gute's reign in GB. Speaking of Gute, for a man who has honestly excelled at so many personnel moves in his time, for some none of it matters because he drafted Love. That however is a discussion for another thread.
This thread however is to discuss the future of Love...what do you feel is the most likely scenario of the 5 options we now have before us as an organization that just inked Rodgers (or will be inking) to a new deal "rumored to be four years" but most likely will mean at minimum 3 more seasons with good health that Rodgers is in GB. How does that impact Love?
Love's contract for those perhaps not aware runs through the end of the 2023 season/year. The Packers after 2022, could exercise the fifth year option on him being a first round pick - BUT that would cost per some estimations of around $20M. It's tough to imagine the Packers doing that as that would be the third year of Rodgers new deal and even conservatively would mean around $45-$60M would be hitting cap just in the QB room.
So the first question I pose is the easiest one to answer IMO - do we franchise tag him?
I say emphatically no, and it isn't for any other reason than it would be fiscally ignorant to do so. None of us know (the organization would be only ones that truly might know) what Love really is...his rookie year was essentially a redshirt oddity with Covid, this last season was more "normal" but he still hasn't seen a true gameplan installed and know he was going to play for the entire week up to a game. He has struggled for sure, shown bright spots in camp and in some preseason games - but nothing to place the tag.
That leads us to what I believe are the five directions for Love and GB that are left....(in no specific order of my personal opinion)
#1
Love goes nowhere till his contract is up with no 5th year exercised. Agree/Disagree it doesn't matter, GB and staff have a young QB they believe in as their backup, which for 2022 and 2023 is rather affordable (hits of 3.37M & 3.94M). After the 2023 season anyone's guess is as good as another in this scenario....means we could get nothing in return other than backup service for years out of Love, or could end up that plus whatever compensatory pick he may bring signing elsewhere.
#2
Love is traded this year before trade deadline. Arguably this is the weakest QB class draftwise that we have had some are saying for over ten years....and get this....Love doesn't turn 24 till November - Pickett is actually older than Love turning 24 in June. Willis will turn 23 in May, Ridder 23 in August and Howell 22 in September. Love has two years, albeit not normal years, of NFL exposure and experience in an excellent system with an awesome QB coach and behind a first ballot HOFer...there is a lot to like about that vs a weaker class of college QBs to choose from. A bonus to the team trading for Love in this scenario is IF he lights it up, the team could choose to exercise his 5th year option...just to keep him in house for two additional years, with that next (4th) year still at a low figure and discussions can happen before that 5th year hits in guaranteed money (if I understand that part of things right). Either way having that option is the one bonus attractiveness here as well if you are a suitor looking at Love.
#3
Love is traded at the completion of this year/into next year. This scenario the suitor most likely will NOT exercise the 5th year and is purely looking at rolling the dice on a young QB, with unknown promise still that perhaps showed something to them in the previous (2022) season to catch their attention. Low cost/risk here and could in season or after a successful one then discuss a deal extension or new contract with Love should it work out.
#4
Green Bay keeps Love, exercises the 5th year option. I put it down, because it is an option and direction which exists...however outside of Rodgers waffling again or a catastrophic injury (knock on wood) in the 2022 season - it is a scenario with the new Rodgers deal coming that just makes very little sense. I know I said I wouldn't place personal opinion on these but I feel this direction has less than a 1% chance of occurring if placing percent likelihoods next to these.
#5
Love is the starter in GB for the 2023 season after Rodgers retires. This similar to #4 could happen, but I just don't see happening unless Rodgers rides off into the sunset after a SB win in 2022.
As for my personal bet, I'm struggling to figure out which camp I fall in between #2 & #3. There is sound fiscal logic behind #1, and doing #2 & #3 is in a way admitting a faulty pick - or some would argue it is. However, if I'm Gute I see it as you never expected Rodgers still in many ways had his best years ahead of him and/or that you would be able to retain him this long....so it is wise now to move Love and draft or sign a different back up. In the end, I think I'd be calling a lot of GMs this year given the draft class is so weak...you know even a team that is supposedly looking hard at Trubisky, he isn't going to cost a ton - bring in Love at a cheap value as well, and see how rises in the competition...or a team that truly doesn't expect to be in the hunt and with QB "need" like the Lions or similar team, Love for a year to see what you can get out of him is arguably attractive in a way. I think realistically the best GB could hope for in return for Love (which could be a thread in and of itself) is a conditional 2nd rounder + a 7th or so. I mean even Josh Rosen got a 2nd in return...which that is the most similar recent comparable trade we can point to. So you get a team that will give you a 7th and then a 4th that could conditionally escalate as high as a 2nd I believe personally you have to do it.
FTR, as I've harped and harped on...I liked Love as a prospect a LOT. He was my QB 2 in that draft, BUT I would have never traded up for him or picked him as I just felt it wasn't a need I perceived (clearly organization felt differently...who knows maybe justified and a ton has changed since). Jordan Love is a HIGH character young man, from my connections to the team he is loved by his teammates and the kid has ability for sure - love to see him get a chance at a shot somewhere else.
What do you predict happens?
There is also the unusual scenario that Rodgers gets hurt like he did in 2013 and 2017 and Love is forced to play Hundley or Tolzien. In which case he would be required to start quite a few games. This would show if he has potential or not. And that would probably give other teams a price value for him. But if Rodgers should succumb to another broken collar bone I think he just may consider retirement. Now if Love were to flop as did Hundley we would get nothing for him and we are back to the draft again.
Gute has already taken a beating for this fan assumptive “failed” draft selection. Why not try to do what he planned all along.. develop him. He’s got zero to lose and everything to gain if his initial hunch comes to fruition.Honestly, this is a point I failed (mistakenly) to bring up in #3 vs #2...by waiting till after this season - GB would be allowing Clements time to learn and work on Love, by year's end he might be able to look at Gute and be like "we have something here" or "I just don't see it"...
I call bs..your posts imply rodgers can never be bad..so please try to understand this assementThe drafting of Love did nothing for Rodgers winning MVPs. Im so tired of that garbage narrative. I swear people will say anything they can to defend that pick. Do you people really think having a useless bench QB is more valuable than giving Rodgers another WR. We probably win a SB in 2020 if Lazard isnt on the field. People always talk about how bad King was but Lazard cost us 8 points against TB.
The 5 LoveLanguagesDirections
When Love was drafted I think it is a safe assumption that nearly the entire Green Bay fan base paused for a moment before reacting...some were shocked that it actually happened, some were pissed, some were just speechless; needless to say it was one of the biggest "moments" in Gute's reign in GB. Speaking of Gute, for a man who has honestly excelled at so many personnel moves in his time, for some none of it matters because he drafted Love. That however is a discussion for another thread.
This thread however is to discuss the future of Love...what do you feel is the most likely scenario of the 5 options we now have before us as an organization that just inked Rodgers (or will be inking) to a new deal "rumored to be four years" but most likely will mean at minimum 3 more seasons with good health that Rodgers is in GB. How does that impact Love?
Love's contract for those perhaps not aware runs through the end of the 2023 season/year. The Packers after 2022, could exercise the fifth year option on him being a first round pick - BUT that would cost per some estimations of around $20M. It's tough to imagine the Packers doing that as that would be the third year of Rodgers new deal and even conservatively would mean around $45-$60M would be hitting cap just in the QB room.
So the first question I pose is the easiest one to answer IMO - do we franchise tag him?
I say emphatically no, and it isn't for any other reason than it would be fiscally ignorant to do so. None of us know (the organization would be only ones that truly might know) what Love really is...his rookie year was essentially a redshirt oddity with Covid, this last season was more "normal" but he still hasn't seen a true gameplan installed and know he was going to play for the entire week up to a game. He has struggled for sure, shown bright spots in camp and in some preseason games - but nothing to place the tag.
That leads us to what I believe are the five directions for Love and GB that are left....(in no specific order of my personal opinion)
#1
Love goes nowhere till his contract is up with no 5th year exercised. Agree/Disagree it doesn't matter, GB and staff have a young QB they believe in as their backup, which for 2022 and 2023 is rather affordable (hits of 3.37M & 3.94M). After the 2023 season anyone's guess is as good as another in this scenario....means we could get nothing in return other than backup service for years out of Love, or could end up that plus whatever compensatory pick he may bring signing elsewhere.
#2
Love is traded this year before trade deadline. Arguably this is the weakest QB class draftwise that we have had some are saying for over ten years....and get this....Love doesn't turn 24 till November - Pickett is actually older than Love turning 24 in June. Willis will turn 23 in May, Ridder 23 in August and Howell 22 in September. Love has two years, albeit not normal years, of NFL exposure and experience in an excellent system with an awesome QB coach and behind a first ballot HOFer...there is a lot to like about that vs a weaker class of college QBs to choose from. A bonus to the team trading for Love in this scenario is IF he lights it up, the team could choose to exercise his 5th year option...just to keep him in house for two additional years, with that next (4th) year still at a low figure and discussions can happen before that 5th year hits in guaranteed money (if I understand that part of things right). Either way having that option is the one bonus attractiveness here as well if you are a suitor looking at Love.
#3
Love is traded at the completion of this year/into next year. This scenario the suitor most likely will NOT exercise the 5th year and is purely looking at rolling the dice on a young QB, with unknown promise still that perhaps showed something to them in the previous (2022) season to catch their attention. Low cost/risk here and could in season or after a successful one then discuss a deal extension or new contract with Love should it work out.
#4
Green Bay keeps Love, exercises the 5th year option. I put it down, because it is an option and direction which exists...however outside of Rodgers waffling again or a catastrophic injury (knock on wood) in the 2022 season - it is a scenario with the new Rodgers deal coming that just makes very little sense. I know I said I wouldn't place personal opinion on these but I feel this direction has less than a 1% chance of occurring if placing percent likelihoods next to these.
#5
Love is the starter in GB for the 2023 season after Rodgers retires. This similar to #4 could happen, but I just don't see happening unless Rodgers rides off into the sunset after a SB win in 2022.
As for my personal bet, I'm struggling to figure out which camp I fall in between #2 & #3. There is sound fiscal logic behind #1, and doing #2 & #3 is in a way admitting a faulty pick - or some would argue it is. However, if I'm Gute I see it as you never expected Rodgers still in many ways had his best years ahead of him and/or that you would be able to retain him this long....so it is wise now to move Love and draft or sign a different back up. In the end, I think I'd be calling a lot of GMs this year given the draft class is so weak...you know even a team that is supposedly looking hard at Trubisky, he isn't going to cost a ton - bring in Love at a cheap value as well, and see how rises in the competition...or a team that truly doesn't expect to be in the hunt and with QB "need" like the Lions or similar team, Love for a year to see what you can get out of him is arguably attractive in a way. I think realistically the best GB could hope for in return for Love (which could be a thread in and of itself) is a conditional 2nd rounder + a 7th or so. I mean even Josh Rosen got a 2nd in return...which that is the most similar recent comparable trade we can point to. So you get a team that will give you a 7th and then a 4th that could conditionally escalate as high as a 2nd I believe personally you have to do it.
FTR, as I've harped and harped on...I liked Love as a prospect a LOT. He was my QB 2 in that draft, BUT I would have never traded up for him or picked him as I just felt it wasn't a need I perceived (clearly organization felt differently...who knows maybe justified and a ton has changed since). Jordan Love is a HIGH character young man, from my connections to the team he is loved by his teammates and the kid has ability for sure - love to see him get a chance at a shot somewhere else.
What do you predict happens?
Used as in to goad a reaction from Golden Balls. We obviously see it different"used" implies they've treated him poorly. He was a first round pick who was one of the only ones to get his contract guaranteed and he happens to get to sit behind one of the best QB's in the history of the entire game. I'd say by most standards he has it pretty dang good.
I call bs..your posts imply rodgers can never be bad..so please try to understand this assement
This has been brought up number times. But, let me see if I can explain my thinking
2 years prior to drafting Love, Rodgers qbr was his worse ever.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8439/aaron rodgers
Stay with me.
Many people here, on media etc felt he was missing something...talent still there but maybe just not fully in to being the qb?
The team felt he was sliding. And he was 36, 37?
2 solid years of the TEAM'S assement of his performance was going down, plus getting older.
The TEAM ( NOT YOU..THE TEAM) felt the talent was slipping...disagree all you want but im willing to place money on this
Internal talks happened and decided now was the time to draft his replacement
They figured they had 3 years maybe 4 before they needed another starter. they knew Love was at least 2 years away..but they had that time.
Rodgers knows why they drafted him. He isnt stupid.
I feel he didnt do it in purpose..but his sub consciousness took over. He wanted to prove he still had it.
So while drafting Love wasnt meant to do anything other than be prepared for future.
You can poo poo this "idea"
But im willing to bet this is what happened.
If I was Love, and if his agent wasnt also Rodgers agent, I would be livid at the Packers. Theyve wasted 2 years of his development. Say what you want about sitting behind someone. I believe that can be used for a year at max. Anytime more than that is wasting a QB. They need to get on the field and play. They needs actual game reps to learn. Practice with and against the #2s can only get you so far."used" implies they've treated him poorly. He was a first round pick who was one of the only ones to get his contract guaranteed and he happens to get to sit behind one of the best QB's in the history of the entire game. I'd say by most standards he has it pretty dang good.