Studs vs Duds: Heart Attack Edition

H

HardRightEdge

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mine will be mostly the same.

Studs:
JJ- good game. IMO showing how he could be the number 1 WR if he wanted to be. As hard as it is for me to say he might be a large reason we wont need to re-sign jennings. especially if his injuries keeep nagging.

Benson-like op said hes been our missing element on offense for a few years now.

O-line- against a crappy d ill admit, but there werent many penalties on the crew and they gave rodgers all day, all day.

Rodgers- only flaw was the INT and it was a good read IMO, just bad pass.

Duds:
Refs- you suck. still.

Shields- idk if it was just that one TD where he blew coverage but that play alone to me makes him a valid dud.

MM's challenge- the first challenge was really terrible. If he wouldnt have used that we could have used it on the kick return fumble. Although we should have won the second challenge so I blame the refs for 99% of this. I still feel MM shouldnt have challenged the nelson catch.

I'd give Shields both a stud and a dud. Up until the TD, I don't think a pass had been completed against him this season, and maybe as few as 2 passes even thrown against him this year up to that point. After the long pass, he gave up another decent gainer though it was zone. Net net, he's having a very good year. I'd like to hear the coaches postmortem on the TD...was there supposed to be safety help?
 
H

HardRightEdge

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Is it a drop or incomplete? I dont know h w it is defined

Drops are subjectively determined. Different sources will quote different numbers by their own subjective standards. That's why a number coming from an independent source, like Pro Football Focus or STATS, won't always be the same number that occasionally leaks out from a team representative. Drops are not an official NFL statistic.

At the start of the season, a Packer insider, I can't recall which, stated that if a ball hits a receiver's hands and he does not catch it, it's called a drop. Later in the season, it was stated that they revised their point system charging fewer drops, and rightfully so.

As far as I'm concerned, a pass is not a drop if 1) the ball is so high, or so far in front of an laid out receiver, it goes off fingertips, 2) the defender gets a piece of an arm or the ball in the process of catching, 3) the defender makes a hit simultaneous with the ball (those borderline interference calls), 4) the ball is tipped on the way to the receiver within 10 yards or so of the attempted catch, depending on the velocity of the ball.

The idea is a drop is a failure to make a catch you would expect an NFL receiver to make routinely. It is not the failure to make a great catch. This is an error-clocking stat. For example, Jones' terrific catch for the last first down of the game is a +1 to be sure. Had he not made that catch, you would not call it a drop.
 

AmishMafia

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Stud: CJ Wilson. Double his lifetime Sack total, now standing at 2.
Special Teams. Fake punt on our end of the field. What ca hones!

Dud: CJ Wilson: I hope that sack dance does not catch on.
 
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My studs

JJ- Great game today
Jermichael Finley- Best game so far. Didn't drop his passes and got good YAC
Ced Ben- Caught every check down and got like 5 yards every carry. Just what we need
A-Rod- Best game so far
Hawk- 2 weeks in a row he has been good. Been hitting some people and really stopped the run. Didn't see him in pass coverage which was probably a good thing
Tramon- Broke up some huge passes today
O-Line - No sacks and opened up holes for Ced Ben. What more can u ask for ? (Consistency)

Partial Studs
Morgan Burnett- Hit some people today and broke up some passes. The thing was he tackled people that already caught the ball
Casey Hayward- Limited PT but showed up when he was on the field. Needed more PT and plays to make the studs list

Partial Duds
DJ Smith- Made some good plays at the end but early in the game he got beat a couple times
Capers- I didn't like his play calling on a bit of the plays but a lot of the players didn't execute when necessary.

Duds-
Sam Shields- Worst game this year. Got beat by Marques Colston all game
Pass Rush- 2 sacks on about 50 drop backs. Not enough consistent pressure.
Refs- We know already
 
H

HardRightEdge

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My studs


Duds-
Sam Shields- Worst game this year. Got beat by Marques Colston all game

Williams is 38, Shields is 37. They were throwing against Williams the entire first half. Shields gets remembered for the TD, but that's no reason to attribute the first half short completions against Williams to the other guy.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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Stud: CJ Wilson. Double his lifetime Sack total, now standing at 2.
Special Teams. Fake punt on our end of the field. What ca hones!

Dud: CJ Wilson: I hope that sack dance does not catch on.

I would consider the fake punt a dud with that field position, score and time remaining. The payoff when it works is less than the negatives associated with failure. Yeah, it worked. Still a dumb call.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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I'm tempted to give C-Wood a dud, but I won't out of respect. He's been off his game. Let's chalk it up to new responsibilities. Still, too many missed tackles this season.

As a harsh critic of Hawk's invisible play last season, I must say he's stepped up this year in Bishop's absence and deserves some props...close to 2010 form.
 

AmishMafia

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I would consider the fake punt a dud with that field position, score and time remaining. The payoff when it works is less than the negatives associated with failure. Yeah, it worked. Still a dumb call.
Thats a coaching thing. The players executed it. That was clutch.
 

GreenBlood

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I thought about this too.
But I'm willing to give him a break since it was just on one play and his very first reg. season snap.
(Brett Favre's first pass was to himself.)
It wasn't the best situation for a green kid out there.
If he had consistently been screwin up (*Cough* Jermichael Finley *Cough*) then I could think of him as a dud.
IMO he didn't do enough to disprove himself.
Saturday stepped on his foot and tripped him up. Used to happen to Manning in Indy a lot too. Seems to be a tendency that Saturday has.
 

GreenBlood

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I would consider the fake punt a dud with that field position, score and time remaining. The payoff when it works is less than the negatives associated with failure. Yeah, it worked. Still a dumb call.
We got a TD on that possession. I'm sure Masthay could have audibled to a real punt if it looked like the saints had it stacked up. But it was obvious they were playing for the return, not the block.
 
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HardRightEdge

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We got a TD on that possession. I'm sure Masthay could have audibled to a real punt if it looked like the saints had it stacked up. But it was obvious they were playing for the return, not the block.

That's all in retrospect. Getting a first down deep in your territory as the reward is a poor proposition weighed against the negative of turning it over deep in your own territory.

It worked, and that pleases me. That doesn't make it any less dumb.
 

mradtke66

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We got a TD on that possession. I'm sure Masthay could have audibled to a real punt if it looked like the saints had it stacked up. But it was obvious they were playing for the return, not the block.

I hate to be that guy, but did wonder aloud looking at the alignment (specifically, they looked light in the middle), "Huh, I wonder if a direct snap to Kuhn could get us the one yard." About had a heart attack when it actually happened.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I hate to be that guy, but did wonder aloud looking at the alignment (specifically, they looked light in the middle), "Huh, I wonder if a direct snap to Kuhn could get us the one yard." About had a heart attack when it actually happened.

Right...all it takes is one player to sniff it out, regardless of the defensive formation. They call it making a play. Happens all the time.
 

mradtke66

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That's all in retrospect. Getting a first down deep in your territory as the reward is a poor proposition weighed against the negative of turning it over deep in your own territory.

It worked, and that pleases me. That doesn't make it any less dumb.

Cite you sources about the apparent stupidity. Just because it goes against the "conventional wisdom" of football doesn't mean it is actually dumb.

What does the average NFL play get? Is going for it on fourth a risk? Sure. So is throwing a forward pass.
 

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DUDS: Drew Brees torched this deffense for 446 yards and 3 touchdowns. 446 yards. . .Take your pick on who was leaving NO's receivers wide open.

Dom Capers.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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Cite you sources about the apparent stupidity. Just because it goes against the "conventional wisdom" of football doesn't mean it is actually dumb.

What does the average NFL play get? Is going for it on fourth a risk? Sure. So is throwing a forward pass.

Quote a source? LOL

Belichick, the genius, had a brief history of going for the first down on 4th. and short deep in his own territory, failed at it a couple of times including a notorious failure in a big game, and then proceeded to justify the wisdom of it. And then he stopped doing it.

Mike McCarthy is a fine coach. I feel the need to qualify isolated criticisms in this way lest they be interpreted as a blanket indictment.

The issue is not the risk. The issue is the risk weighted against the reward. The toss to Quarless is less black and white, goal-to-go notwithstanding.
 
H

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In the rules of argument, I don't have to. You assert (to paraphrase) that "the play call was dumb," thus the burden of proof is on you. (You'll note I have not made the complimentary statement of "it was a good call.")

I wasn't asking you to quote a source. I was laughing at your asking for one.

But while we're at it, quote your source for the "rules of argument". LOL

Please, debate team rules will not be acceptable.
 
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I'm a Finley supporter but he did drop that one catchable ball early in the game. Just sayin'
He did "catch it" until the defender poked it out, but Finley still did have a shot of catching it. It wasn't a straight up drop though which is a good sign.
 
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You cannot fumble on 1st & goal at the 1-yard line.
That was absolutely a disgrace and I almost lost the remote on that one, out the window.
I called it before it happened. I told my family, "First appearance for Harrell? I guarantee we will run it 4 times in a row, if he doesn't fumble it before then." and sure enough 1 play later, he trips!
 

Forget Favre

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I called it before it happened. I told my family, "First appearance for Harrell? I guarantee we will run it 4 times in a row, if he doesn't fumble it before then." and sure enough 1 play later, he trips!
Ah! So it's your fault! LOL
(J/K. I'm not like those fools in that stupid beer ad.)
 

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